Monitor quality control...is it actually getting worse? (Aorus rant)

[lugerfield]

The AW2721D has a fan. For such a standard monitor without any special features like fald its for me a big disadvantage. Please consider you will need for 240 hz <=4.16 ms. No ips monitor is delivering it. I would buy a normal LG 27" 144 hz nano ips variant like the lg 27gp850. Its good enough.

This monitor has better response times as the AW2721D or the AUO counter parts:

https://www.techspot.com/review/2251-lg-27gp850/#23

AW2721D:

https://static.techspot.com/articles-info/2205/images/23.png

PG279QM with AUO panel:

 

[guwange]

The AW2721D has a fan. For such a standard monitor without any special features like fald its for me a big disadvantage

I guess it's more a case of picking my poison, at this point The fan definitely sucks - and doesn't seem very necessary - but I'd probably accept it, if the Alienware has no pixel or dust issues (and assuming BLB is still average-ish). In reality, the lack of an sRGB clamp will probably annoy me more than the fan...

Please consider you will need for 240 hz <=4.16 ms. No ips monitor is delivering it. I would buy a normal LG 27" 144 hz nano ips variant like the lg 27gp850.

Yeah, I did think some of these 240Hz IPSs were a bit borderline. I was actually looking at the 27GP850 when Hardware Unboxed first reviewed it. It was my original top choice - but it was never released in the UK (for whatever reason). It's now really expensive to import (with Customs on top) and would probably be near-impossible to return, if I had issues (which I probably would ). So, I think that's out

The 32GP850 is available over here. Although like I said, 32" is a bit bigger than I'd ideally like. Plus, I think I'd prefer 27" for 1440P, in terms of PPI. Pretty sure the response times were a touch worse on the 32" version (when compared to the 27"), too.

I did also consider the MSI MAG274QRF-QD, which is 165Hz, as another alternative. But the gamut on that is super-wide (with no sRGB clamp), and I think the gamma seemed quite off.

PG279QM with AUO panel:

On the face of it (ignoring QC issues), this is pretty much the perfect monitor for me. Although since it's the same panel as the XG27AQM, I imagine the coating is also quite grainy? That said, it's never in stock in the UK I've seen it literally twice (and both times it sold out very fast). And it's nearly £150 more than the AW2721D (which is already more than the FI27Q-X).

 

[lugerfield]

I wouldnt buy a 93 ppi monitor. It looks fuzzy. 109 ppi is the absolute minimum for good viewing expierience. 140 ppi is optimal, but only crappy Innolux panels outhere in terms of response times and overshoot.

The XG27AQM (so the PG279QM) is not as grainy as the PG32UQX, it's much grainier than LG's coating. It definitely disturbing me, who is using LG panel monitors permanently since years. Both are using the coating of the XB273UGS.

Comment on amazon for example:

"That is the anti-glare coating used, I honestly do not know what Acer were thinking. It gives the display a textured and grainy like surface, I've never used an IPS display like it."

Otherwise the auo panel of the XG27AQM has much more motion blur than my X34GS.

I dont know which sense a slow not capable of 240 hz for nearly all transitions makes. I wouldnt buy and keep such a slow monitor.

And ips glow was much more disturbing as on my X34GS. Its yellow tinted like the "old" AUO panel. I do much prefer LG with greyish ips glow. This is only for ultra wide lg panels (since 2018 - UW5) the case. I have seen Wqhd lg panels with yellow lights at the bottom and top. The LG XG270QG had this problem, also some LG 27GL850. But less pronounced. Maybe a term of pressure of the case on the panel.

 

[PCM2]

@PCM2 I'd also like to say I think your reviews are far and away the best online. While I also usually look at TFTCental, RTINGS, Hardware Unboxed, etc, I think your reviews (especially with the accompanying videos) are by far the most thorough and detailed.

To be honest, I mainly bought the FI27Q-X on the strength of your review - and even though I'll continue to complain endlessly about the quality control I think it's a really excellent monitor for the price, otherwise. Were it not for the QC issues, I'd 100% be keeping it. Even as things stand, I'm kind of undecided (partly because I'm now wondering if anything else will be much better).

I completely agree, though, that observations about quality control are far beyond the scope of any review. You'd have to have reasonable volume of any SKU (ideally not review samples), for it to be in any way useful data. Which is obviously completely unfeasible!

Glad you like the reviews and appreciate what can and can't be tested. It's always frustrating when you get a monitor that's really solid, or would be for you if your unit didn't have some annoying QC issues.

 

[lugerfield]

@PCM2

Do the monitor manufactures liking your reviews? Do they offer free review samples or do you buy them from a retailer?

If i would write my reviews about monitors, no manufacturer would like it because i would mentioning every failure .

 

[PCM2]

@PCM2

Do the monitor manufactures liking your reviews? Do they offer free review samples or do you buy them from a retailer?

If i would write my reviews about monitors, no manufacturer would like it because i would mentioning every failure .

The manufacturers appreciate critical feedback as well as positive feedback and get plenty of both from my reviews. They provide review samples and they're typically returned after reviews. So it isn't really accurate to call them "free review samples". No money is involved, so in that sense they're free - but they aren't offered as any sort of incentive. I could certainly purchase monitors myself, but there's little reason to do so with manufacturers happy to send out samples, including of models not released here. If I did that it wouldn't change the review methodology, as covered already it isn't practical or indeed sensible to try to point out flaws that exist on some units but not others. Unless it's an obvious flaw which is visible in images or videos in the review, which was the case with the PG32UQX's pressure marks. Anyway - not discussing this further as it's not a constructive use of my time.

 

[lugerfield]

The Asus, Samsung, Acer technicans in Germany appreciate nothing about failures and bad qc.
The usual response: "You are the first with this failure, we know nothing about this failure!"

A flawless monitor is costing a lot money. If there are enough noobs for buying overpriced monitors with many flaws good for them. Look for forums. Most people have no idea how to test a monitor.

When im writing in most forums i feel like an alien. Far above the normal user. If you write the truth about the faulty buy, they hate you and use the report button . On reddit you will get banned very quick.

I would never whitewash my buy. If something is crap im mentioning it and kicking the item fast as i can.

The advertising reviewers on youtube (which are the most) are manufacturers best friends . LTT is the best example. He has no credibility.

 

[guwange]

I wouldnt buy a 93 ppi monitor. It looks fuzzy. 109 ppi is the absolute minimum for good viewing expierience.

These are kind of my thoughts, really.

The XG27AQM (so the PG279QM) is not as grainy as the PG32UQX, it's much grainier than LG's coating. It definitely disturbing me, who is using LG panel monitors permanently since years. Both are using the coating of the XB273UGS.

Yeah, this sounds like it might well be a dealbreaker Anything obviously grainy is a bit of a no-no for me.

I have worked out I can just about fit a 34" ultrawide. Sadly, the X34GS is out of stock everywhere - and it's listed at over £1000 (out of stock) on Rainforest.

Any thoughts on the LG 34GN850? More than I wanted to spend...but that's gettable for £779-799-ish.

 

[lugerfield]

The 34GN850 is using an older revision of the UW6 panel. The X34GS is using a newer one. But the 34GN850 has nearly the same response times. Color tints on the 34GN850 are usually more pronounced. I don't know how much it will bother you. Maybe you buy one of these:

https://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=monlcd19wide&xf=11955_IPS~11963_144~11996_1900R/1.9m~14591_34401440

The Asus is using the same panel as the Acer. Which one the BenQ is using i dont know. It's according the max. refresh rate the 34GN850 panel.

For the X34GS keep an eye on this site:

https://store.acer.com/en-gb/monitors/gaming

 

[guwange]

The 34GN850 is using an older revision of the UW6 panel which is used for the X34GS. But nealy the same response times. Color tints on the 34GN850 are usually more pronounced. I don't know how much it will bother you.

I guess I don't either

The Asus XG349C is also out of stock on Rainforest (and a lot more expensive than even X34GS in most places). UK really seems to suck for UW monitor availability right now! The BenQ is gettable...but £850 is a lot, given the panel is an unknown.

I guess I'll have to have a further think. Probably a toss up between the AW2721D, 34GN850 or just giving up on this monitor hell - and sticking with my FI27Q-X

I will keep an eye on that Acer link in the meantime I can see one place that has it on preorder @£799. But it's apparently been overdue since late June...so, probably not coming any time soon!

 

[lugerfield]

Maybe i would wait for the LG 34GP850. Im nearly about to skip the lottery.

After 6 PG32UQX and 3 G9 Neo im really exhausted. Why should i give the seller 2000 - 3500 Euros in advance if the units are very likely crap which should never passed factory qc (dust inside panel is not allowed, its doa for every manufacturer)?

For this crap monitors there should be only selling per invoice allowed. Especially for well trusted buyers like me, who never skipped any payments.

Every next unit could be a crap or good.

I think 90 % are crap. It's very unlikely it will drop a good one. So much trash in a row.

For G9 i need ~10 attempts over month to get one without dust. I got popping and sizzling noises instead. So i had to return it also. This ******* noises appearing when the monitor was turned off as well. So headset isn't the way to dodge this. This noises driving you to insanity.

 

[EsaT]

For G9 i need ~10 attempts over month to get one without dust. I got popping and sizzling noises instead. So i had to return it also. This ******* noises appearing when the monitor was turned off as well. So headset isn't the way to dodge this. This noises driving you to insanity.

That "sizzling" is likely coil whine from power supply.
There's always on standby power in everything without real physical "main" power switch.

Guess you should take power supply from one monitor and panel from another to make good monitor...

 

[lugerfield]

Maybe cheap psu. Never heared such a noise on other lcd monitors. The popping sounds are result of cheap plastic case which is reacting on heat expanding.

G9 Neo popping sounds:

Personally i dont know why this reviewer is keeping this trash monitor. I would kick it if it makes such popping noises. 2200 Euros are a lot money for such a faulty unit.

It has a ton of problems:

-awful hdr (dimm, washed out, wired colors)
-heavy color banding in dynamic mode
-awful scanlines, especially in 240 hz mode
-awful quality control (dust and other panel defects (damage of polarisation film and white spots) very likely). Had 3 G9 Neo all with dust inside panel (white test screen of Eizo test helps). One hat damage of polarisation film (rainbow effect) and white spot. Not physical panel damage. It was inside the panel. The dust problem is typical for Samsung products. Also for AUO but this another story. Had enough (arround 100) Samsung monitors over the last years and nearly all had dust inside panel. Only 2 without.
-annoying coil whine (higher pitching noise @ 240 hz)
-massive overshoot
-adaptive sync flickering
-poppig noises (to small ventialation holes + cheap plastic case) => Samsung G9 has the same problem, it has the same case
-sub pixel structure of Samsung SVA is crap, its leading to fuzzy text and contours

 

[EsaT]

Maybe cheap psu. Never heared such a noise on other lcd monitors. The popping sounds are result of cheap plastic case which is reacting on heat expanding.

G9 Neo popping sounds:

Personally i dont know why this reviewer is keeping this trash monitor. I would kick it if it makes such popping noises. 2200 Euros are a lot money for such a faulty unit.

Coil whines are quite common in PC components using switching mode regulators.
Especially in those feeding high power consumers like CPU or especially GPU.

But haven't heard much from those in monitors.
Guess monitor's power supply was just cheaply made.
Though one possiblity is some kind EMI in power line triggering it.


As for constant popping noises I suspect that extreme curvature increases issues from different thermal expansion coefficients.
And wouldn't wonder any if there are notable residual stresses from manufacturing and assembly.

 

[lugerfield]

The noises cant be ignored in idle if you are working on the monitor. Monitors who are making noises must be send back.

Also all G7 units (~15 in total) had buzzing coilwhine, extremly annoying. Only one was without dust . I really hate AUO and Samsung panels. Sadly they are the only manufacturer who offering fald + high refresh rates for monitos.

 

[Baddass]

Are you saying you went through 15x Samsung G7 panels?

 

[lugerfield]

Yes. But for expensive monitors above 2000 Euros i wont do the same.

 

[guwange]

Maybe i would wait for the LG 34GP850.

Haha given LG don't seem particularly bothered about releasing the 27GP850 here - and even the 32GP850 is only officially being stocked by OCUK and one other place - I wonder if we'll even ever get the 34GP850 in the UK

Im nearly about to skip the lottery.

After 6 PG32UQX and 3 G9 Neo im really exhausted.

I'm really not surprised! I'm completely over all of this - and I'm 'only' on my second monitor. Buying a monitor should be fun...but it's rapidly becoming a serious chore.

The crazy thing is, I don't think I'm even being especially fussy. I'm prepared to accept average uniformity and average to moderate BLB. All I'm really asking for, is no dead or stuck pixels - on a device guaranteed not to have any pixel failures If I was really being fussy, I'd be sending all of these monitors back for BLB alone. I still have some older IPS monitors (granted, 60Hz) bought ages ago, with little to no BLB - so, it's clearly perfectly possible.

I think 90 % are crap. It's very unlikely it will drop a good one. So much trash in a row.

I really think the entire sector is in a terrible place, at least in terms of QC. Sadly, I don't think enough people care - which is why none of these companies/panel manufacturers see the need to try any harder. There might be (what they consider) a more demanding niche, who will RMA multiple times - but replacing their screens over and over, will cost a fraction of actually building things to a higher standard. And a lot of people who do even RMA a few times, will probably eventually tire and give up (as both of us are pretty close to doing).

I'll still try one more monitor (from a different brand)...and just keep whatever is best. Or rather, whatever is least bad It's ridiculous that that's what it's come to...but I really don't want to spend the next three months boxing/unboxing monitors, in hope of finding a unicorn.

 

[Baddass]

Yes. But for expensive monitors above 2000 Euros i wont do the same.

You also said earlier in this thread “After 6 PG32UQX and 3 G9 Neo im really exhausted. Every next unit could be a crap or good.”…

I don’t know what to think here. Maybe you need to seriously lower your expectations to a more sensible, normal level and stop searching every centimetre (as you put it) for every possible flaw or spot of dust. Or perhaps you haven’t really been through that many screens and this is all a load of over exaggerated rubbish. no retailer or manuf is going to let you go through 15x samples of any screen (or any product for that matter)

This just doesn’t seem believable to me

 

[lugerfield]

@guwange

Buying monitors is only a fun if you buy monitors with LG UW panels. Same for tvs. Samsung crap is loaded with dust very oftenly. They are mostly using AUO **** panels.
I expect no disturbing color tints, pixel failures/dust and now heavy blb.

The funny thing ist, dust and other dirt isnt allowed according to manufacturer terms. But they have no qc to stop it. My explanation is that most noobs will keep nearly everything they got.

How many times i read on forums "My Samsung/AUO panel has no dust!". Believe me most wont use the white testscreen of Eizotest to find them. Especially for Samsung/sharp and some AUO panels (like the PG32UQX/PA32UCG one) you need extreme luck.

@Baddass

LG panels have rarely dust inside panel. You cant miss it even if you dont use white testscreen.

You will see it in the browser or other bright screens. If its not semi transparent you will see it on most colors too.

In Germany you can buy a ton of monitors without getting any problems with the sellers. Especially from Asus Shop, Saturn, Mediamarkt.

Reason is: Dust is a flaw which isnt allowed by manufacturers terms, sellers can return it for money or exchange. I'm someone who is mentioning all qc flaws if i send something back. Never had problems with most sellers. Only 1 seller banned me for sending an sealed cpu back, i refused the parcel never took it . Lol.

You could buy from him anyway. You have to use only another name. But i wont because the seller is overpriced and has bad customer service.