Monitor quality control...is it actually getting worse? (Aorus rant)

[PCM2]

Completely exaggerated examples there with a very poorly set up camera for the videos. Not helpful. Of course tiny white dots with an almost black background will show 'haloing', the limitations of 1152 dimming zones on a monitor with ~8.3 million pixels was certainly pointed out in my reviews. Just because I didn't slap an exaggerated image or video section in your face of something you may not actually notice during normal use doesn't mean it wasn't covered. Again, it is visibly shown and covered in the 'Local Dimming' section of the video even outside of HDR. I covered it as I saw fit in the HDR section as well.

 

[lugerfield]

Nope, i made this shots in a lit room:

https://abload.de/img/pg32uqxhaloshnkt7.jpg

https://abload.de/img/pg32uqxofj1w.jpeg

It's very awful haloing.

If you haven't noticed it i dont know what you are testing.

The G9 Neo has far less blooming. But it has other issues as we well know .

Yes you are right about the dimming zone count, its not enough for so many pixels. But the dimming algorithm sucks. It's a big problem of the PG32UQX.

 

[PCM2]

Your images are overexposed and you're looking at tiny white points against a dark background. They're much smaller than the dimming zones. So of course that's going to cause issues. The dimming algorithm wouldn't help with that unless it decided to keep the local dimming off completely, which would raise the black depth massively. Or compromise in another way which would limit the brightness of the stars or raise the depth of the dark shades. I did show some examples of that sort of behaviour (as I came across it) in the video review, incidentally - https://youtu.be/JT96hWb1c0Q?t=3623.

 

[lugerfield]

You are wrong. I watched the same demo content on a G9 Neo. And the halos were barely noticeable on this. Especially for the planets in this video which had on the PG32UQX a big white contour. Samsung is known for good logo/small object dimming for their lcd tvs with fald, Asus or Nvidia failed there.

May be its a little bit over exposed. But the halos are still massive. I have seen it with my own eyes.

 

[PCM2]

"You are wrong".

/thread

The Neo G9 has much stronger static contrast, a greater number of dimming zones (albeit spread across a larger area) and lower peak and sustained luminance levels. It isn't the dimming algorithm that helps there, it's the hardware capability. So you are wrong.

 

[lugerfield]

You are right a mod should move this posts to the PG32UQX thread .

The dimming algorithm is very important. If the algorithm is not dimming for smaller objects, huds, crosshairs etc. on darker backgrounds you will get massive halo effect . The increased contrast ratio of va will not help there so much . The Samsung G9 Neo has a little bit higher dimming count ratio mesaured by display area. But only a tiny bit. Measured by pixel density it has nearly twice as much dimming zones as the PG32UQX but as i said it's mostly about the dimming algorithm.

The GQ55QN95A has only 576 dimming zones on 55 inch @ uhd and it has much better dimming and hdr than any of this monitors. But sadly the panel is slow and too big for a monitor on a close distance.

I can't answer below because i have a post limit of 15 posts per 24h:

I would prefer a dimmed zone for huds, stars and other small objects on a darker background because the halos which are looking like flash lights are awful. The side effects are a less vibrant look in this areas, but even va looks with decreased brightness dull.

 

[PCM2]

I see what you're saying. You'd prefer particularly small bright objects (like stars) to be toned down so they're much dimmer, whilst a good deep depth to dark shades is also maintained? That works better on VA models with moderate brightness, but on an IPS model the stars would end up looking very dull indeed if the darkness surrounding them is to be suitably deep. For less extreme examples the algorithm would start dulling objects with bright edges or certain glints of light. The 'pop' of such elements is what many people want and expect from a good HDR experience. With the example from the video I gave earlier up this page (which also showed HUD element 'halos'), that would make the torch-lit bow look rather unimpressive even if the halo there was diminished.

It's always going to be a compromise one way or the other. Remember that these VA models have ~2-3 times the static contrast, so for a given black point the stars or other bright elements can be 2-3 times as bright. The panel type makes a huge difference in this example. A gentler algorithm can make sense for VA models as moderate brightness still yields a reasonable dark shade depth in comparison to IPS. Or looking at it another way, the bright elements can have significantly more 'pop' before compromising the dark depth too much. You can't algorithm your way out of physics, but having another 'Variable Backlight' setting that would do that sort of thing wouldn't have hurt for those who want it, I guess. Those bright highlights I mentioned in the first paragraph would be made decidedly unspectacular under HDR with such a setting and there would be significantly less 'pop' than on a VA model with a similar setting. So most would find it too limiting.

 

[SPBonzo]

I returned a FV43U a few weeks back. Absolute crap.

 

[jigger]

Monitor quality still in the toilet?

Eizo need to enter the market and show how it’s done.

 

[Ryanr1987]

I've returned 4 Fi27q-x for multiple stuck pixels mostly green. The PG279QM also has issues but with lots of stuck color sub pixels, 2 units so far. No issues with LG panels ever always AUO and now sharp. Panel QC is terrible from AUO tempted to give up as I know my next PG279QM will have pixel issues.

I also found the Pg279QM very grainy as heavy on the coating, ruined the overwise great sRGB toggle and wide gamuts.

 

[lugerfield]

Sharp and Auo are real horror manufacturers. Consider the cheap wqhd ips panels only cost arround 100 Euros for normal private buyers from a reseller as spare part. For this price restrict qc is very hard to do, if you will earn some money. But the monitor manufacturers are charging 700+ Euros for this crap and LG panels are not much more expensive and they have this problems as an absolute exception. Nothing you will have nearly permanent.

I had Samsung Tvs for 1500 - 2000 Euros. One Q90T has last year 5 times insects (3-5 mm long flys) and 3 times dust inside the panel. One QN95A has a big dust spot and subpixel failure. Holy crap. All tvs were equipped with panels from AUO.

5 of 6 PG32UQX with M320QAN02.6 panel for each arround 3500 Euros had 1-3 dust spots.

3 Samsung G9 Neo with 1-4 times dust, one in addition with white spot, several sub pixel failures and damage of polarisation film (rainbow effect). Each G9 Neo costs arround 2200 Euros.

The PG279QM is using the same AUO panel like the XG27AQM i had 2 times. One with a cluster of dead pixel (black) and arround it some subpixel failures (pink).

@SPBBonzo

It has only 8 dimming zones, a ton of heavy overshoot (lightning white, flashing overshoot), bgr subpixel layout, bad homogenity, bad viewing angles, bad color performance compared with ips and its using AUO panel which is known from XG43UQ/PG43UQ/CG437KS/CG437KP, dust is very probable.

@jigger

Eizo was also crap if they are releasing the FS2735. 2 times the cost of the XB270HU with G-Sync module which was offering excellent reponse times and overshoot over the whole adaptive sync range + ULMB (Nvidias outstanding blur reduction mode). They had often dust and bad backlight bleed while using the AUO M270DAN02.3 panel. Also the overdrive was complete trash. Only optimized for 144 hz and even here far behind the competitors. The build quality was very cheap, the overdrive was splitted into 2 ranges, the homogenity was awful and the coating was grainy.

Gladly Eizo removed this trash monitor from the market. A monitor which is expensive only because it has an Eizo labeled and you get refurbished, ugly used monitors for 5 years in case of defect is a really bad joke.

 

[guwange]

I returned a FV43U a few weeks back. Absolute crap.

I've returned 4 Fi27q-x for multiple stuck pixels mostly green.

That really sucks. I guess it's not just me. I had no idea how bad things were on the QC side with Aorus when I placed an order for my first one. Regret not doing more a bit more research into users who'd actually purchased the monitor at retail. I mainly just looked at reviews

The PG279QM also has issues but with lots of stuck color sub pixels, 2 units so far. No issues with LG panels ever always AUO and now sharp. Panel QC is terrible from AUO tempted to give up as I know my next PG279QM will have pixel issues.
I also found the Pg279QM very grainy as heavy on the coating, ruined the overwise great sRGB toggle and wide gamuts.

This is also really disappointing to hear. The excellent sRGB mode would be a massive selling point for me...and at least on the face of it, it ticks almost all the boxes I'd want (with the exception of stuff like FALD, which would obviously put it in a diffferent price bracket altogther). It's fair chunk more expensive than the FI27Q-X...but I'd probably reluctantly accept that, if the QC was up to scratch. Sad to see, it almost certainly isn't.

The use of heavy coating is probably the bin lid on it, for me. Which is a pity.

I'm going to order an AW2721D tonight, and will report back. No sRGB mode, and Dell don't sound as though they're especially interested in adding one via firmware. I see the MAG274QRF-QD now has an sRGB mode via a firmware update. But then, that's a AUO panel - and I think I'd rather stick to LG this time. Maybe I'll get lucky, and Nvidia will go on to add an sRGB clamp at driver-level (like AMD).

Monitor quality still in the toilet?

Eizo need to enter the market and show how it’s done.

I must admit, I've only ever had one Eizo monitor (EV2736W). Not a gaming monitor by any stretch, but it probably had the best QC of any IPS-type monitor I've ever owned. BLB was incredibly low/basically non-existent.

 

[lugerfield]

Yep, i know no active reviewer (limscave did it in some cases) who is mentioning qc issues. I tested monitors by myself, because even the best reviewers are missing some important points about monitors. If reviwers would mentioning all problems manufacturers will not send them new review samples . Most reviews are only containing pseudo negatives. So buyers are not aware of buying it after they read the "reviews".

Most reviewers on youtube and on websites have not the experience for rating a monitor well. I have over 6 years of experience with most relevant mid range - high end gaming monitors (most tested several times because of qc issues). So no wonder why i know much more than most reviewers.

Which reviewers are buying monitors themself?

PCM said manufacturers are interested in failure reports . If they do, they wouldn't release new lineups full of failures of the predecessors continuously, they would offer firmware updates for fixing software failures and releasing new revisions without hardware failures.

They give a **** on failures if there are enough clueless buyers who buy and keep the trash they produce.


Nvidia will not offer rgb mode within osd. The g-sync monitors have far as i know only one color range (the full range, the panel is offering) which is leading to oversaturated srgb colors.

The "normal" non gaming Eizo monitors are often using LG panels. No wonder why qc is pretty good .

The expensive CG series is using panels from Panasonic. Never had a monitor with Panasonic panel. Can't say anything about the qc there.

Edit (cant post more than 15 posts per 24 h):

Right there were some Eizo mid range monitors with Samsung PLS. Did you look for dust inside the panel/below the ag coating? Maybe its overclockable to 100-120 hz. Some Korean Monitors are overclockable with Samsung PLS panels .

@PCM2

Are you allowed to tear down your review samples? I teared down PG35VQ, AG353UCG and X27 for fan mod . But i didnt try for the PG32UQX because the panels were crappy. From the PG35VQ i have some Delta fans, but the PG32UQX is using another form factor so i have to buy new ones .

I hope they will have mini pwm instead of pico blade connectors. Otherwise i have to crimp another connector.

@badass

I need no money. So i dont place reviews. I write in forums if im in the mood. The testing is for myself to find the best of any new monitor series, with better specs.

I had hundrets of monitors. Not only 75.

@guwange

Your thread is right, sadly it's attracting some guys who have no idea of qc/monitor issues but they think they have. Sadly not many users have deep experiences with a big range of monitors.

Good for me i know now a lot about pcms characteristics. Before i read some of his posts here, i thought he is a more competent person. Especially his association with baddass is disgusting. Barely seen a person who is more incompetent.

Gladly i test monitors myself and dont need his reviews which are clearly far away from complete. But among all the advertising "reviews" they are better than nothing.

For you who tested not so many monitor his reviews are maybe a little indicator which is perhaps good enough for you (beside of qc issues).

 

[guwange]

Nvidia will not offer rgb mode. The g-sync monitors have far as i know only one color range (the full range, the panel is offering) which is leading to oversaturated srgb colors.

Well, there goes that dream!

The "normal" non gaming Eizo monitors are often using LG panels. No wonder why qc is pretty good .

The EV2736W (I still actually have it connected to an old system), uses a Samsung PLS panel, perhaps surprisingly. I actually had a couple of other PLS panels in other Samsung monitors. Maybe just a lucky streak, but all seemed well above average in terms of BLB. Although the Eizo was definitely best.

 

[Baddass]

Yep, i know no active reviewer (limscave did it particulary) who is mentioning qc issues. I tested monitors by myself, because even the best reviewers are missing some important points about monitors.

Most reviewers on youtube and on websites have not the experience for rating a monitor well. I have over 6 years of experience with most relevant mid range - high end gaming monitors (most tested several times because of qc issues). So no wonder why i know much more than most reviewers.

sounds like you should start your own review site since you know so much more than all the reviewers out there. Delusional

 

[guwange]

Right there were some Eizo mid range monitors with Samsung PLS. Did you look for dust inside the panel/below the ag coating? Maybe its overclockable to 100-120 hz. Some Korean Monitors are overclockable with Samsung PLS panels .

I didn't use the Eizo test tool But if there was dust...I didn't notice it. The whole screen is covered in external dust now

I never tried overclocking it. I don't use the system for gaming...I think it has like an Nvidia 730 GT in there

 

[PCM2]

PCM said manufacturers are interested in failure reports . If they do, they wouldn't release new lineups full of failures of the predecessors continuously,.

No I didn't, I said the following. Critical feedback is not the same as a "failure report".

The manufacturers appreciate critical feedback as well as positive feedback and get plenty of both from my reviews.

 

[Baddass]

No I didn't, I said the following. Critical feedback is not the same as a "failure report".

These failure reports are 99% in his mind. Although to be fair he has more knowledge and experience than all reviewers perhaps everyone else is just blind and he’s the only one who can see the reality of these widespread QC issues that effect over 75 monitors he’s personally (allegedly) sampled

 

[guwange]

Like I said, you are in-tune with your own OCD tendencies and clueless about what should or can be included in reviews. I've been very polite and respectful with you this far, other contributors to this thread have understandably stayed quiet for a bit. Because they aren't getting anything out of it now. This thread should probably be closed, you don't deserve an answer to those questions with the lack of respect and closed-mindedness you've shown.

Really sorry, I think I must've read past this earlier.

I do feel bad that I've (inadvertently) created a bit of a monster starting this thread It really wasn't my intention.

I don't mind if any mods want to shut this down now. I think its probably outstayed its welcome. In amidst the chaos, I have had some useful feedback So, fingers crossed my next monitor will fare better better in terms of dead/stuck pixels.

And if it doesn't, I'll just have to get over it. First world problems, as they say...

 

[EsaT]

The dimming algorithm is very important. If the algorithm is not dimming for smaller objects, huds, crosshairs etc. on darker backgrounds you will get massive halo effect . The increased contrast ratio of va will not help there so much.

You're wrong:
VA's doubled to trippled contrast over IPS helps exactly most in tiny details with both black/dark and white/bright immediately next to each others.
For those backlight zone control can't do anything to improve contrast, until we start talking about like 100000 zone backlight.