More proof of aliens

Status
Not open for further replies.
Soldato
Joined
19 Oct 2008
Posts
5,951
'Irreversible damage'. Good one, lol.

Do you think so?
I'm no expert myself. Including the likes of Prince Charles seems to think so, or at least believing we're close to the point of no return. However, it was meant for comparison. 200 years....43000 years to get to the nearest planet that might support life, given our current technology.

Personally I blame overpopulation as part of the problem but nobody seems to want to even talk about that let alone talk about dealing with it. More people = greater the demand on resources, higher the human carbon footprint and whatever else. Global population has doubled since 1970, not even 50 years.

Human race getting out into space and reaching other life supporting planets vs our planet or our species dying out. What'd be the odds ? :)
 
Last edited:
Man of Honour
Joined
5 Dec 2003
Posts
20,999
Location
Just to the left of my PC
I remember seeing a programme about a glass skull, which we can't reproduce today.

Was it an Indiana Jones film? Or was it the rock crystal skull hoaxes? They look like glass. They were made in the 19th century. AD. Not BC. Also, we can make glass skulls today. A quick search at Amazon UK returns over 9000 results for "glass skull" and at least some of them are definitely glass skulls.

Also there is a hollowed rock inside one of the pyramids and so far we can't hollow a rock without it cracking.

I can't, but I bet someone could, with the right tools. Also, you provide no evidence that this rock exists. You don't even state which pyramid it's allegedly in. Also, can rocks naturally form with holes in them? I suspect they can.

I saw these on a documentary programme so if someone can prove we can make a glass skull and hollow a rock today then I'd have to change my opinion on it.

I've dealt with the glass skull already. I don't have enough to go on for the alleged hollow rock that might or might not exist somewhere.

I still believe that something unnatural to what we know of the world built those pyramids. They are never documented, we can't build one today (though there are many theories about building them), and they even line up with star systems etc. To be creating structures like that when we've never done it since then sounds very strange in my humble opinion.

A pyramid is the easiest wall to build a tall structure. Humans could easily build a pyramid today, bigger than the great pyramid if they wanted to. Here, for example, is a picture of a pyramid almost as tall and with a vastly more impressive construction because it has many times as much interior space. An ancient Egyptian would be awed into silence by it and might conclude that it can't have been built by humans:

https://alllasvegasdeals.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Luxor_Las_Vegas_Exterior_04.jpg

The idea that humans can't build a pyramid today is nonsense. Firstly, humans build far more impressive structures every day. Secondly, the only reason we don't build pyramids is because we build far more impressive structures, ones that use space far more efficiently. Building a mostly solid pyramid is easy. Put down a layer. Put a slightly smaller layer on top of the first layer. Repeat. They're a clear progression from the earlier stepped tombs. They're the obvious first step to building higher if you don't have enough earth of the right kind to build a hill fort. Even the angles become obvious because if you make the slope steeper the structure collapses. There's even a surviving early pyramid in which the angle of slope changes because they realised partway through construction that it was becoming too unstable as they went higher.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bent_Pyramid

You could build a pyramid if you had enough time. If you had decades, tens of thousands of workers and vast wealth, you could have a pyramid the size of the great pyramid built even without modern technology. With modern technology, you could have it done in a year by dozens of people.

I simply don't understand why anyone thinks humans couldn't build a pyramid today. A mostly solid pyramid, even one over 100 metres high, is extremely simple compared to a commonplace modern skyscraper let alone something like the Burj Khalifa.

Well all those examples all the tribes had the same materials in front of them. Though not all tribes discovered everything. Lets say that aliens or ufo's werent real. So they are a thought, a figment of a wild imagination, don't you find it odd that all the tribes all had the same idea?

No, for the reasons I already explained. There were a lot of similarities in their situation. They were all the same species of people. It's not surprising there were a lot of similarities in their responses. "A god pulls the sun across the sky in a chariot" is a far less complex idea than "if we construct a partially sealed chamber of fireproof material, make a fire inside it and blow air into it, we could extract copper from this green rock", but that happened independently in a fair few places. It's also explainable as a series of simpler steps, making observations and deducing hypotheses, so the existence of smelting isn't proof that aliens or gods did it.

But we're talking about something very specific, the same ufo aircraft design i.e. an object flying around. If you saw a fighter jet fly over your head you wouldnt mistake it for a cloud or some weather phenomenon?

But we're not talking about "the same UFO aircraft design". Not in ancient drawings. An object flying around, yes. "the same UFO aircraft design", no. Here, for example, is a collection of images that were specifically chosen as "proof" of aliens visting Earth in the past. They're absolutely not "the same UFO design".

https://listverse.com/2016/04/24/10-historic-divine-paintings-that-clearly-show-ufos/

That's from medieval and renaiisance paintings, but you can see the same in older depictions of flying things and things that may be flying things, even in the same culture let alone in different cultures.

EDIT: I forget the "pyramids align with stars" thing. Firstly, they don't. Secondly, if they did now then they wouldn't have done when they were built due to precession. Thirdly, the ancient Egyptians (like a great many groups of people), observed the night sky and attached importance to it. So why would it be surprising if they did align important buildings with stars? It's not difficult to do so.
 
Last edited:
Man of Honour
Joined
29 Mar 2003
Posts
56,809
Location
Stoke on Trent
Where is the evidence for that? Is it even possible?

I see what you did there :) I also never miss an episode of Ancient Aliens even though it's garbage.

All those replies were bang on, just what I wanted to say.
At the moment I'm watching the Story Of Interstellar which is amazingly about the theory behind the Interstellar film.
They touched on time, speed and distance which makes a mockery of Alien visitation but haven't mentioned the Fermi Paradox.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
5 Dec 2003
Posts
20,999
Location
Just to the left of my PC
Surely considering the size of the universe and the fact it's continuing to expand, it'd be highly probable that life exists or existed elsewhere?

I think we can't say for sure because we don't know enough about what is required for life to exist. We have some idea of the circumstances required for life to continue to exist (and they're pretty broad, so I think it's fair to say there's a high probability that those circumstances exist elsewhere in the universe), but how does abiogenesis happen? How does life stem from not-life? We know very little about that, so how can we reliably assign any probability to it?

It's tempting to say "the universe is very big and the chance of life existing is not zero, so it probably happened more than once". Maybe it did, but I think it's a stretch too far to state that it's "highly probable". I think we just don't know enough to assess the probability.

Whether or not this life is intelligent or contactable is another matter however.

I agree and would go a bit further. Whether the life is more complex than the simplest archaea and bacteria is another matter. The development of eukyrotes from prokyrotes is another "can't say how likely that is to happen" thing. It only seems to have happened once on Earth. Once, ever. Other steps in evolution happened repeatedly. Does that mean that prokyrotic life is common but eukyrotic life exists nowhere else but on Earth? Maybe. Or is the development of eukyrotic life absolutely inevitable in every place where prokyrotic life exists for long enough? Maybe. Somewhere in between those two extremes of probability? Maybe.

That's my position in a nutshell - I think there's too much "maybe" to reliably assign any sort of probability.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
5 Dec 2003
Posts
20,999
Location
Just to the left of my PC
I see what you did there :) I also never miss an episode of Ancient Aliens even though it's garbage.

I'd like to claim it was deliberate, but it wasn't. I've never watched an episode of Ancient Aliens, although I did read "Chariot of the Gods" when I was much younger (*). I must have heard/read the "is it even possible?" catchphrase in memes, but I wasn't deliberately using it.


* I also read "The Space Gods Revealed" soon afterwards, which was a valuable lesson to my younger self. "Chariot of the Gods" was well written and I thought it was plausible until I read "The Space Gods Revealed", which debunked it so thoroughly that one reviewer memorably described it as "the Chariot of the Gods turned into a pumpkin".
 
Man of Honour
Joined
29 Mar 2003
Posts
56,809
Location
Stoke on Trent
I'd like to claim it was deliberate, but it wasn't. I've never watched an episode of Ancient Aliens, although I did read "Chariot of the Gods" when I was much younger (*). I must have heard/read the "is it even possible?" catchphrase in memes, but I wasn't deliberately using it.


* I also read "The Space Gods Revealed" soon afterwards, which was a valuable lesson to my younger self. "Chariot of the Gods" was well written and I thought it was plausible until I read "The Space Gods Revealed", which debunked it so thoroughly that one reviewer memorably described it as "the Chariot of the Gods turned into a pumpkin".

In every episode of Ancient Aliens the Narrator says at least 5 times "Is such a thing possible? Ancient Alien theorists say yes".

I'd probably read all Daniken's books plus other fiction authors before I started to realise they were talking crap.
So very early 70s I was into God & Aliens but by the end of the 70s I still had a massive interest in both but now sceptic.
 
Soldato
Joined
17 Jan 2016
Posts
8,768
Location
Oldham
I've dealt with the glass skull already. I don't have enough to go on for the alleged hollow rock that might or might not exist somewhere.

I think the programme was one of those Ancient Aliens type of programmes, as mentioned in other replies. But it did show the actual rock hollowed out. To be fair I don't think its enough to assume others can do it when nobody else has done it. But if someone can show me a hollowed rock done by a modern machine I'll retract my hollowed rock theory.

EDIT: I forget the "pyramids align with stars" thing. Firstly, they don't. Secondly, if they did now then they wouldn't have done when they were built due to precession. Thirdly, the ancient Egyptians (like a great many groups of people), observed the night sky and attached importance to it. So why would it be surprising if they did align important buildings with stars? It's not difficult to do so.

The point I was making about the stars alignment was asking why was it so important back then, when these days nobody bothers with it. Why was star alignment so prominent in their building? What was the point?

Also when we talk about religion, while I can understand the 'leader principle' that the masses have a group urge to follow a leader, it doesnt account for the looking up at the sky part that we seem to brush off as mystical. Why were they looking at the sky in the first place? If a weather balloon flew past you in the sky you would know it wasn't a natural weather season, even if you'd never seen a weather balloon before.

It's a sad fact that even today if I saw something unusual and told someone else if they demanded proof and I hadn't taken a photo or video they wouldn't believe me. But that doesn't mean that it didn't happen.
 
Associate
Joined
3 Mar 2010
Posts
1,893
Location
Hants, UK
It depends on your claim.

If you said you saw something unusual fly across the sky, something that you couldn't identify, I have no reason to dismiss it and can quite happily accept that you saw something unusual.

However, if you describe that same object as an alien spacecraft then you'll need to prove it - extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
29 Mar 2003
Posts
56,809
Location
Stoke on Trent
About 4 years ago I was at a petrol station and watched a group of people who were amazed at lights in the sky.
I explained they were chinese lanterns but one bloke got quite aggressive saying they were Aliens so I left saying that if he looked around some more were being launched as we spoke. he still maintained they were Alien.
It just taught me a lesson how some people can believe anything.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
5 Dec 2003
Posts
20,999
Location
Just to the left of my PC
I think the programme was one of those Ancient Aliens type of programmes, as mentioned in other replies.

So it was nonsense, then. Something on a comedy fantasy show dressed in the facade of a documentary.

But it did show the actual rock hollowed out. To be fair I don't think its enough to assume others can do it when nobody else has done it. But if someone can show me a hollowed rock done by a modern machine I'll retract my hollowed rock theory.

To be fair, I don't think it's enough to expect others to believe that something you say was once on a show hilariously famous for nonsense is proof of aliens who (for some unexplained reason) hollowed out a rock ~4500 years ago.

But I'll pretend to accept, for the sake of argument, that this thing actually exists.

The first problem for your "it was aliens" argument is that you provide no details. Not even enough details for anyone to start trying to look into it, let alone the important details such as its size, what type of rock it is, how big the hollow is, how thick the crust is, how (ir)regular the shape is, how you know it's hollow, how people ~4500 years ago knew it was hollow.

The second problem for your "it was aliens" argument is that off the top of my head and with no relevant knowledge of modern machining capabilities I can think of 3 other explanations for a hollow rock whoch don't require modern knowledge or technology:

1) Make a blob of wax. Coat it with cement or concrete, leaving a small hole. Wait for the stone to set. Heat the stone and the wax melts and runs out the hole. Fill the hole with some more cement or concrete. There you go, a hollow stone. You could make a hollow stone with a pretty thin crust and completely hollow right the way through. You could even make a very regularly shaped one. You could also use processed solidified animal fat instead of wax. It would probably be easier to get enough of that than it would be to get enough wax. You could use earth and wash it out with water afterwards rather than melting it out. That would be time consuming, but many things were in the stone age. In case anyone is wondering, cement and concrete are stone age inventions. Concrete is commonly associated with the Romans in the iron age, but they didn't invent it. What they invented was a much stronger form of concrete, the infrastructure required to mass produce it and the architecture to make impressive use of it.

2) Find a naturally occuring hollow stone. I thought I remembered that they did exist and for some reason the relevant word came to me while I was having a shower. Geode. A stone with some other minerals in it and a hollow inside it. So you don't even need "a hollowed rock done by a modern machine". You can buy them online, from numerous places. They're not even particularly rare!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geode

You can also get hollow stones that don't have deposits of other minerals inside them - geodes are when other minerals seep into the hollows in rocks.

3) Drill a hole in a stone, put some abrasive material (e.g. sand) in it and grind a hollow out with a stick. Immensely labour intensive, but many things were in the stone age. People had plenty of spare time.

If you're wondering about size after seeing some geodes for sale online, that's not the limit. They can be meters across. The size limit for online sales is practicality, not existence.

The point I was making about the stars alignment was asking why was it so important back then, when these days nobody bothers with it. Why was star alignment so prominent in their building? What was the point?

Ritual/superstition/religion, whatever you want to call it. And many people do bother with it today - there are plenty of people who believe in astrology.

Also when we talk about religion, while I can understand the 'leader principle' that the masses have a group urge to follow a leader, it doesnt account for the looking up at the sky part that we seem to brush off as mystical. Why were they looking at the sky in the first place?

Because it's there and humans are curious. You'd see stars without looking up, so you'd look up to see more. Or you'd just look up anyway just to see what's there. Humans are also heavily wired to see patterns and seek answers, which combine to perceive meanings in patterns. We do it so well that we frequently perceive patterns that aren't really there and meanings that don't exist in the patterns even if the patterns are really there. Also, in most religions the gods were elsewhere, some special godly realm. They might visit the mortal realm, but they didn't live there permanently. Since the gods were above humans, it sort of made sense that their realm was literally above ours. The gods were usually in the great unknowns. Even if they did live in the mortal world, it was in the great unknowns of that world. Sea gods, for example. The depths of the oceans were absolutely unknown to the ancients. They're very sparsely known even today, but back then they were totally unknown and unknowable. Add in the powerful urge to have answers, to know or at least think you know or at least try to devise an explanation that might be knowledge, to strive for knowledge, and people are definitely going to do it. They could see the sun moving across the sky. They could observe that it was vastly powerful, the bringer of life and death, the source of light and heat, burning in the sky every day thoughout time. Something so powerful must be explained, its nature and its movement, and the answer must be far beyond humans - it must be supernatural. A god? A thing made by a god? A thing even older than the gods? Whatever moves it across the sky must also be supernatural, obviously.

People looked at stars and perceived people and animals into them. That's how strong the human urge to see patterns is. The "constellations" are nonsense. The chosen stars don't look anything like a hunter, a bear, a swan or whatever.

If a weather balloon flew past you in the sky you would know it wasn't a natural weather season, even if you'd never seen a weather balloon before.

True, but I'm not seeing the relevance. Some people would "see" a supernatural explanation. Some people would "see" an alien explanation. Some people would "see" that they didn't know what it was and were willing to admit that. But what does it have to do with ancients people (or modern people, come to that) looking at the stars and "seeing" patterns and meanings?

It's a sad fact that even today if I saw something unusual and told someone else if they demanded proof and I hadn't taken a photo or video they wouldn't believe me. But that doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

I don't think that fact's sad at all. I think it's a good thing. Why should people believe a random stranger making unsupported claims? I'd pencil in an assumption that they had seen something, but without any evidence it would only be an assumption and it would say nothing about what that thing was or even if it actually existed. Humans are prone to optical illusions and not infrequently to seeing things that aren't there (especially when tired or when falling asleep or when waking).
 
Soldato
Joined
17 Jan 2016
Posts
8,768
Location
Oldham
So it was nonsense, then. Something on a comedy fantasy show dressed in the facade of a documentary.

To be fair, I don't think it's enough to expect others to believe that something you say was once on a show hilariously famous for nonsense is proof of aliens who (for some unexplained reason) hollowed out a rock ~4500 years ago.

But I'll pretend to accept, for the sake of argument, that this thing actually exists.

I think while the commentary of that programme is hyperbolic the places they show are real. We don't have to believe everything we see, as long as it provokes questions about the world around us. That's just my view.

I've never said I believe these things were made by aliens, in the sense I don't think we've been visited by creatures from another planet. My personal theory is that this is an advanced race was from earth and left thousands of years ago and visit us every so often. Again this is my personal thoughts that I'm not putting forward 100% proof of, and not saying I'm 100% correct. I wouldn't know that unless it became common knowledge.

As I was replying to the post I thought I'd try and find out if a stone can be hollowed in any way. I've found out that it can, quite easily too. At least I learned something today :D
 
Associate
Joined
24 Oct 2013
Posts
399
I'm a skeptic, 99% of all claims of alien visitation etc seem to be nonsense, nonetheless there is a body of evidence out there that is hard to explain.

We have a UFO story in my family. Just after the war my Grandmother was walking along some fields with my mother in a pram. She claims to have seen two large golden disks rise out of the field and shoot off at great speed. This was somewhere along the south coast of the U.K. Okay, so just an eyewitness claim. Except my Grandfather was in the Fleet Air Arm at the time, stationed nearby and he was able to corroborate the two objects were tracked by the base radar moving at great speed. I believe the incident was reported in the press at the time. Of course, this does'nt prove alien visitation or the existance of an ancient advanced civilisation but does leave an open question.

In the same vein - the many reported incidences of 'Foo fighters' during the war have never really been explained adequately. Same with the Nazca Lines, nobody really knows the the ancient people of the area were trying the achieve. Certainly their work could only have been observed from the air, something that was impossible at the time.

Moving on, I have met people who claim to have seen things flying around that are very hard to explain easily. A former colleague of mine, who flew helicopters in the Turkish army for 20 years, described to me an incident one night on exercise in the mountains near the Iranian border. His entire crew saw a series of lights moving in formation at speeds and turning in ways which defied his understanding of the technology we have today. I have no idea what to make of his story but I believe he is a very credible witness. I also met an F16 pilot once who described chasing an object on his radar at very high altitude which moved off at impossible speeds. I'm not too sure about that one, we were all out in a group and pretty drunk at the time. In fact I can think of a number of stories where colleagues of either seen or know other pilots who have seen things they can't explain.

I can relate a story of my own. I've been flying commercially for 20 odd years. Quite a few years ago on a night flight at about 0400 in the morning I was making an approach into an airfield in one of the former Soviet republics. We were close enough to see the approach lights of the runway, probably about 6-7 miles out. Then something odd happened. A white dot of light appeared on the ground, rose up and flew under the left wing of the aircraft. I initially thought somebody had shot at us, and reported it as such until a colleague pointed out that tracer is orange in colour. To this day I have no idea what it was, in fairness, the closest explaination for what I saw was ball lightning. But you never know.

Finally, believers in aliens or ancient civilisations may be in good company. After he came back from the moon, Neil Armstrong went on an expedition to Ecuador to find a lost trove of gold tablets, purporting to contain ancient inscriptions describing an advanced civilisation here on earth. He obviously thought there was something in it.
 
Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
39,309
Location
Ireland
Even if someone captured good evidence on camera the likelihood is people would claim it was cg. Which stands to reason as hollywood style effects are possible on a decent home computer.

Suppose there is the possibility someone has captured legit good quality footage but it was dismissed as cg. Which is where the problem lies, if the footage is grainy or out of focus its declared fake, if its clear and in focus its cg.

Until an Alien ship lands at some world capital building sightings will always be treated with skepticism.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
100,329
Location
South Coast
I remember seeing a programme about a glass skull, which we can't reproduce today. Also there is a hollowed rock inside one of the pyramids and so far we can't hollow a rock without it cracking.

You saw these things on Ancient Aliens, a series regularly debunked by actual science. Also a show featuring this guy:

giphy.gif


As for the skulls themselves, Ancient Aliens won't ever tell you that with modern electron microscope testing from both sides of the world, the skulls were proved to be fake and manufactured after the 1800s when interest in ancient civilisations and myths/folklore was rife in the public mind.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/archaeology-and-history/archaeology/crystal-skulls/
 
Associate
Joined
31 Mar 2016
Posts
1,412
Location
Moonbase Alpha
After he came back from the moon, Neil Armstrong went on an expedition to Ecuador to find a lost trove of gold tablets, purporting to contain ancient inscriptions describing an advanced civilisation here on earth. He obviously thought there was something in it.

''Armstrong, as Honorary President of the expedition, flew to Quito in August on a British Royal Air Force cargo plane along with Hall and the Black Watch and the Royal Highland Fusiliers regiment to explore the caves, though he was unaware of von Däniken’s wild claims about them''
''in Armstrong’s own words: “It was the conclusion of our expedition group that they [the caves] were natural formations.” No lasers. No gold library. No aliens.''

Same with the Nazca Lines, nobody really knows the the ancient people of the area were trying the achieve. Certainly their work could only have been observed from the air, something that was impossible at the time.

''With careful planning and simple technologies, Nickell proved that a small team of people could recreate even the largest figures within days, without any aerial assistance''
Knowing you had made the image would have made them worth doing.
A lot of ancient cave art would have been seen by almost nobody.

To conclude that unexplained lights are the result of an alien intelligence would be a ludicrous leap of reasoning.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom