More teacher strikes

easyrider said:
The politicians seem to think they deserve a pay rise that's my point
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No they don't. As I've pointed out a few times, the public complained that the Politicians oversaw their own remuneration, and so an independent body was created to do this (IPSA). When afore-mentioned independent body then recommend an increase after a while, the public complain.

Explain to me what the politicians are supposed to do?
 
sports_brah said:
No sympathy for teachers. In my considerable experience in the school system (been to far more schools than most), I've found teachers to be useless people for the most part.

Very very rarely do you meet anyone who is decent and actually takes their job vocationally.

The world of teaching is a million miles away from the world of work.


Oh and my dad was a headteacher->deputy head--> assistant head--> head of department etc. He will happily confirm that lots of teachers are genuinely useless people who are in the job for the holidays and the easy life.

Their performance management in having to reach targets is so hated, because it actually expects teachers to put in the work.

Personally I think teaching should be massively overhauled. Make it far more competitive and ultimately more useful to everyone.
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I wouldn't go as far as you, but there's a nugget of truth embedded in there.

I'd be more inclined to put the useless factor at around 50/50 based on my experience. The wife's a teacher, and I generally refuse to go along with her on colleague nights out etc. as a number of them are (or were), quite frankly, entirely vapid people.

Still, it's the same kind of ratio as working in an office in all honesty.

My partner loves and hates the job in equal measure. Loves what she does, and the response she gets from the kids, but hates the interference and totally unrealistic expectations constantly foisted upon them -- usually by external bodies with no real-world classroom experience.

The 'world of teaching' isn't quite a million miles away from the 'world of work'. Teaching IS work, and damned hard work at that. I wouldn't be able to wrangle hundreds of snivelling teenagers a day, I can tell you that. So what if they aren't doing a constant 9-5 where everyone else can see how dedicated and 'what a team player' they are because they don't leave until 7pm? That's bull****.

Do you honestly think that because somebody doesn't work for a profit-making corporation that they do not work? Also consider self-employed individuals... for example if I have a particularly good couple of months, I could go without a contract for a month, or even more, and just chill out for a bit. In your opinion then, I don't work hard and don't put any effort in to earn that time (especially if the work itself comes easy to me)? That's essentially what you're saying.

Performance management isn't a bad thing provided the targets are realistic. The problem with teaching is that it'd be things like "Get all these U-grade students to a C". How on earth is a teacher stuck in the middle of that supposed to hit that target? They can work themselves ragged trying to achieve it, but if the braindead little ***** they're trying to help better themselves don't want to bother, then they will fail. We don't live in the world of Dangerous Minds, so that doesn't seem fair to me.
 
sports_brah said:
No sympathy for teachers. In my considerable experience in the school system (been to far more schools than most), I've found teachers to be useless people for the most part.

Very very rarely do you meet anyone who is decent and actually takes their job vocationally.

The world of teaching is a million miles away from the world of work.


Oh and my dad was a headteacher->deputy head--> assistant head--> head of department etc. He will happily confirm that lots of teachers are genuinely useless people who are in the job for the holidays and the easy life.

Their performance management in having to reach targets is so hated, because it actually expects teachers to put in the work.

Personally I think teaching should be massively overhauled. Make it far more competitive and ultimately more useful to everyone.
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And the reason you can make such a well informed judgement is based on what, your abysmal education due to the fact that teachers are useless people?

By saying 'considerable experience in the school system' would I be right in thinking all you've done is observe teachers rather than actually try it for yourself..

Again, just because you've seen poor teaching in a number of schools does not mean you should tarnish every single teacher in every area of the country.
 
AndyCroft1982 said:
If people in the private sector are not getting pay rises then why should the public sector? Are people in the public sector saying they are more deserving than the rest of us? Do they work harder? DO they do a better job than those in the private sector?
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What exactly does the private sector have to do with the public sector? That's a ridiculous logical fallacy. Private sector companies stand to make themselves money and further fuel the economy. If they don't make money, they aren't successful, and rightly can't cover pay rises for staff.

Nobody is saying they work harder or are more deserving... if the money's there for raises, then they get it. What's the problem? It's the same as two private sector workers for different companies -- one is having a hard time and gets nothing, the other one is in a booming sector and makes a killing in bonuses and raises. Does that mean that one works harder than the other? These days, of course not.

There is no point whatsoever in using the argument you just did. It just makes you seem bitter, jealous, and oh so glad that you're leading the way in a race to the bottom. That's not a medal you want, though.
 
Pestilence said:
They can work themselves ragged trying to achieve it, but if the brain dead little ***** they're trying to help better themselves don't want to bother, then they will fail. We don't live in the world of Dangerous Minds, so that doesn't seem fair to me.
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This is the real problem in the teaching profession. How do you genuinely rate the effectiveness of a teacher when the "raw materials" they work with are constantly changing and dynamic.

The best teacher in the universe can only help a child that is willing to learn and moreover is ABLE to learn.... by that i mean has a home that nurtures education and supports them. A child from a horrible home with abusive drunken parents will learn very little, as the main priority for them is getting fed and avoiding being beaten up.

Teachers can only work with the children they are put in front of, and if those children are already trodden down by society it is unfair to penalize the teachers for not improving them!

The government and ofsted are only interested in performance and paperwork. The actual social responsibility of giving each child a chance seems to be forgotten under the crushing weight of endless forms, performance tables and red tape. A school is not a business there to make a profit, but they seem to run like it more and more.

I worked self employed in primary schools doing basic IT support for 6 years. In that time i saw the effect of increased work load on teachers... now if i can see that just doing what i did they surely its obvious that something is wrong. I saw an excellent school slowly go down the pan purely due to cuts and a few years of troublesome kids.

The teachers were the same... the headmaster the same... i saw the same day in and day out routine but the behaviour levels dramatically reduced, the number of support assistants increase and the number of violent children massively increase. Now nothing in the way the school was run changed, the CHILDREN changed!... something in the wider society made the children more aggressive and unteachable.

Now its a few years back and the thing was the recession or what ever you wish to call it. My point being it was not the fault of the teachers, but by god did they get the blame! ( in this case ).... the ofsted report slated the school and i can damn well assure you it was the kids now coming from broken jobless homes that was the reason behind it. But that is not something anyone would admit... no must be the lazy teachers!
 
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platypus said:
Explain to me what the politicians are supposed to do?
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Stop fiddling expenses
Stop telling lies
Stop sexual harassment of each other in the House of Lords
Stop the richer getting richer and the poorer getting poorer
Build houses
Stop lining the pockets of the fat cats by selling off public services cheap like the Royal Mail
Stop spouting religious dogma



I could go on....
 
platypus said:
No they don't. As I've pointed out a few times, the public complained that the Politicians oversaw their own remuneration, and so an independent body was created to do this (IPSA). When afore-mentioned independent body then recommend an increase after a while, the public complain.

Explain to me what the politicians are supposed to do?
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Not take a payrise?! Does 'We're all in this together' ring any bells?

My job has been underpaid for years and several 'studies' during that time have confirmed that is indeed the case. Result? No pay rise as there's no money, we're in a recession, austerity measures, blah, blah...

The fact is as it's always been - the minority, rich elite need to protect their positions and part of that is oppressing the poor majority. We're plebs to them. That includes teachers, binmen, care workers, etc. And the sorry truth is many of the relatively better off public (presumably not in the aforementioned roles) subscribe to the same mindset, as they think it will also keep them in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed.

They read about, or know someone that knows someone, that knows a teacher that hasn't managed to get their stupid child a pass in maths, and it's, as always, someone elses fault - the teachers fault. They then extrapolate and all teachers are therefore rubbish.

Maybe if they spent less time working and more time with their kids, their kids would be doing better in school? Education begins at home. (But sometimes, you simply can't polish a ....)
 
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easyrider said:
But the politicians are deserving of a pay rise?:rolleyes:

Nurses are not ?

You clearly know very little about the subject of teaching....
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What a ridiculous comment.

Of course nurses, doctors, teachers, probably even dustman as well as loads of other people deserve pay rises, so do a lot of the private sector.

Surely the problem is the country still has a large deficit, so where do you think the money will come from? More borrowing?

For the record I think the MP's taking a pay rise was disgraceful as we are apparently 'all in this together' seems some think they can opt out.
 
amigafan2003 said:
I haven't got any jelly beans but little Johnny has - it's not fair! Waaah, waaaah, waaah. :(:(:(:(:(:(:(


How infantile.
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Seems to me the only people crying are the teachers going on strike, boohoo i work so hard boohoo i want more money boohoo im going to spend a day on strike because they are making changes to my kushty job. oh and waahaaah lol grow up
 
Third Opinion said:
What a ridiculous comment.

Of course nurses, doctors, teachers, probably even dustman as well as loads of other people deserve pay rises, so do a lot of the private sector.

Surely the problem is the country still has a large deficit, so where do you think the money will come from? More borrowing?

.
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The rich...the business who fiddle tax....loads of places.
 
AndyCroft1982 said:
Seems to me the only people crying are the teachers going on strike, boohoo i work so hard boohoo i want more money boohoo im going to spend a day on strike because they are making changes to my kushty job. oh and waahaaah lol grow up
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Wow someone has serious resentment towards teachers.
 
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