More teacher strikes

[MrMoonX]

I work 50 hours a week earning rubbish money, I didn't choose this I worked hard and got qualifications. I don't have a choice I work 50 hours, unsocial hours or I get kicked out of my home and am penniless.

Why is it that working in the civil service shields you from the real working world?

Aww boohoo, find a job that you get paid enough for in 37hrs as 50hrs is not only against working time directive, it's stupid

Oh and teaching isn't the civil service

The real world is doing a worthwhile job to fund your life not living to work as you appear to be doing. No one looks back on life wishing they worked more, in a recent study of people who were dying, I wish I worked less was the number one

 

[Dolph]

Wrong quote, this was to castiel.

Perhaps if there was a strict rule regarding the dismissal and striking off of failing teachers and management, the above would work. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen at the moment and hence again, there are no consequences for teachers who fail children.

 

[AndyCroft1982]

I am getting so bored of listening to the whining from teachers crying they have it tough, guess what? so do the rest of us. SOme of us have to work 70+ hours a week and we even have to work from home to catch up. We get the bare minimum holidays as well. As others have said if you dont like it, leave, like the rest of us have to to. I dont understand why you think you are so special because you work for the civil service? Get off your high horses and suck it up like the rest of us have to !

 

[MrMoonX]

I am getting so bored of listening to the whining from teachers crying they have it tough, guess what? so do the rest of us. SOme of us have to work 70+ hours a week and we even have to work from home to catch up. We get the bare minimum holidays as well. As others have said if you dont like it, leave, like the rest of us have to to. I dont understand why you think you are so special because you work for the civil service? Get off your high horses and suck it up like the rest of us have to !

Teaching isn't the civil service

Oh and why should there be a race to the bottom, why don't you fight your 70 hr weeks and say enough is enough? Why should workers suck up poor pay and conditions, 70hr weeks is just plain illegal and if you're doing them then where's your life?

 

[Castiel]

Wrong quote, this was to castiel.

Perhaps if there was a strict rule regarding the dismissal and striking off of failing teachers and management, the above would work. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen at the moment and hence again, there are no consequences for teachers who fail children.

Of course there needs to be a radical change in attitudes toward failing teachers and the current mentality of what amounts to Tenure being removed. There should be an objective and effective process of attainment and testing of teaching staff at all levels with support and training available to encourage and facilitate improvement and if that doesn't work then such staff should be replaced. This is different from closing failing schools however as that doesn't address the underlying problems, one of which is failing teaching staff and ineffective management...but it isn't the only one.

 

[Musty Pie]

Teachers have absolutely no idea how good they have it because they have never worked in the real world. I don't think they would even survive in the real world.
The real world has redundancies. The real world has pay cuts. The real world has stressful deadlines. The real world has lower days holiday. The real world has pensions hacked to pieces.

This is a massively bold and retarded statement. I wasn't going to post in this thread, because its tired old ground that has been walked over many times. But your short-sighted and naïve post forced me to start typing.

I don't need to justify why I think that most teachers are underpaid and not respected as I live and experience the strain that being a teacher can put on someone daily.

My Fiancé is graded as an 'outstanding' teacher. She works harder than anyone I know. If you assume she has no idea of how the 'real world' works you would be proven wrong within seconds.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

As I understand it, teachers get 6 weeks in summer (42 days)
Three half term holidays at a week per term (21 days)
Two weeks at Christmas (14 days)
Two weeks at Easter (14 days)

Oh, and lets not forget the eight bank holidays (8 days)

7 of 8 of those bank hols fall in those holidays mentioned above.

Yes, yes feel free to comment that weekends are included in those figures. My response is that they have to be by the nature of the typical working days of a teacher. Also bear in mind that in reality half term holidays are 5 working days + a weekend either side which total 9 days 'off work', not 7 or 5 as some people would try and make out.

Really? You're including weekends in the holiday entitlement?

I also think it should be noted that the 'fighting' approach has not proven too effective for teachers has it?

Really? Where do you think their current terms and conditions came from then? Past governments didn't just offer them up on a silver platter you know.

 

[Tunney]

I am getting so bored of listening to the whining from teachers crying they have it tough, guess what? so do the rest of us. SOme of us have to work 70+ hours a week and we even have to work from home to catch up. We get the bare minimum holidays as well. As others have said if you dont like it, leave, like the rest of us have to to. I dont understand why you think you are so special because you work for the civil service? Get off your high horses and suck it up like the rest of us have to !

Why don't you fight to make your job better rather than wishing that their job was worse?

 

[Deleted member 66701]

I am getting so bored of listening to the whining from teachers crying they have it tough, guess what? so do the rest of us. SOme of us have to work 70+ hours a week and we even have to work from home to catch up. We get the bare minimum holidays as well. As others have said if you dont like it, leave, like the rest of us have to to. I dont understand why you think you are so special because you work for the civil service? Get off your high horses and suck it up like the rest of us have to !

Why don't you fight to make your job better rather than wishing that their job was worse?

Oh, and no one "has" to work 70+ hrs a week as it's illegal for an employer to force you to do so.

 

[Pookie Bear]

My other half is a teacher - been doing it for many years and is part of the management team at her school.

She works her backside off. During school terms, she is at school a minimum of 08h00 to 17h30 - that's the earliest she leaves work, it's often later. She has minimal breaks - sometimes she comes home having had no drinks or food for the entire day as her workload doesn't give her a chance. Most nights she brings home marking and also plans the days and weeks ahead. She spends her own time and money on making displays, preparing games and making school life fun and educational for the children she is responsible for. She stresses, she worries, she really cares about other people's kids. Added to that, she also manages parents. When I was a schoolchild, if something went wrong, I got an earful for being a slacker - these days, the parents go straight for the teacher.

1) My other half works longer than those hours. I'm sure there are many who don't work those hours and get by on as little as they can.
2) She is well paid but I think she deserves more for what she goes through. All this government does is take, erode, demoralise.
3) Is striking the answer? I don't think anyone wants to strike, it's not like you get paid to stay home. That said, what are teachers to do? I see the stress, the worry, the pain that my other half goes through and it makes me very unhappy - and when they complain, they get told to shut it.

They're an easy target because people go "Look at all that pay and all those holidays, and they finish at 15h30 every day!" and too many morons just suck it up or come up with the old clueless favourite, "then get a new job".

 

[Loosecannon]

The main argument I think teachers have at the minute is changing their terms and conditions without any discussion, and how policy changes are affecting workloads.

For those mentioning holidays, remember if you are not a a teacher then you can often go on holiday for half the price of teachers by choosing to go during term time. Teachers cannot do this, and is several thousands in savings etc.

Take ICT for example. An easy example to understand and share. One day they have a curriculum, they know what to teach and have examples of what students should achieve. Then Gove decides this isn't what the uk or business need. It's computing. So all students must learn computing, regardless of ability. But there are no standards, no expectations, no guidelines... They just couldn't be bothered. Students that can't spell yet -well they have to learn computing because they could change the future of the uk! Oh, and students having skills using office fully isn't what business need, they all know this already by some magical osmosis. Good policy?

From next year, levels don't exist in primary schools and up to year 9. So how do you grade students? That's up to you. But if ofsted don't like it when they visit you risk going in to special measures. That's more visits, massive changes to the school system, falling numbers when parents see ofsted reports... Oh and if you child moves school -we'll they will probably be graded in a different way - that will be so helpful to staff moving schools or parents. All because of what? The government not being able to suggest a better way to do things. The pressure this will place schools and teachers under is incredible.

I bet everyone would love to be assessed on the role they do in a single ofsted 20 minute observation. I will come in and watch you do your job for that time and decide if you are outstanding, good, room for improvement or inadequate.

At lot of it is about the pressure, changing standards with no notice, pay (and in particular the pension changes when the teacher pension scheme figures still haven't been shown, 2 years after being requested).

Some changes are for the better. It is now much easy to go through disciplinary procedures for not doing their job - which usually affect those that re doing the bare minimum, not the ones that are putting in 50+ hours.

I do feel story for what teachers are having to deal with and that's without mentioning the behaviour of some children this day in age. Is striking the way to do things? Probably not, especially when some students are taking exams -that is wrong. But how else can they try and get the government to stop and think what they are doing, what the aim is and actually put a plan together to get there.

 

[T C]

If the jobs that **** get another job.

I do know teachers by the way, including a couple of newly qualified ones. You know what you're getting into when you take the job it's part and parcel.
The hours are going to be the same if the pensions are cut or not etc kids are not going to change, if anything they get worse.
All I know is this, the four teachers I know say that the benefits of being a teacher out way the negatives!

 

[Lakeland]

There are so many armchair experts in threads like these. You may have went to school as a child, know someone who works in a school or you may even read a newspaper article, it doesn't mean you understand the education system. Yes there are lazy teachers, yes there are lazy senior leadership staff, but at the same time there are hundreds of others doing the profession proud.

For the record I think strikes are generally pointless, teachers lose a days pay so there are two good reasons why I do not have a membership with a striking union.

I don't believe more money is the answer, we should be working smarter not harder, reducing workloads without reducing progress, but right now it's popular to beat the teaching profession with a stick as it's great for votes.

 

[Raumarik]

I'm sorry but I don't buy those figures quoted in the OP, before anybody shouts at me for not being a teacher:

1. My father was a teacher up until a couple of years ago, he taught for over 40 years and was head of department for the last 20.

2. Three of my aunts were full time teachers 30 + years.

3. Two of my cousins are teachers, one is a departmental head.

4. I worked in schools for almost 6 years in various IT roles, I have plenty of friends who are teachers.

There are some, exceptional teachers who put in over 50 hours weeks and I know they worked holidays. However a huge amount of them coast, knowing the lessons barely change from one year to the next, they are given time during the week to mark and make of them use time during one class to prepare for the next.

I'm not saying it's an easy job, but it shouldn't be as frankly it's very well paid for the level of stress they have to deal with.

We need to stop putting teachers on a pedestal and treat them like everyone else - those who are exceptional should be rewarded, but we can't treat them all as one glorious block -the same goes for doctors, nurses and dentists to be honest. I cannot stand Gove, but I can't see these strikes doing teachers any favours, or getting results.

 

[Dolph]

There are so many armchair experts in threads like these. You may have went to school as a child, know someone who works in a school or you may even read a newspaper article, it doesn't mean you understand the education system. Yes there are lazy teachers, yes there are lazy senior leadership staff, but at the same time there are hundreds of others doing the profession proud.

For the record I think strikes are generally pointless, teachers lose a days pay so there are two good reasons why I do not have a membership with a striking union.

I don't believe more money is the answer, we should be working smarter not harder, reducing workloads without reducing progress, but right now it's popular to beat the teaching profession with a stick as it's great for votes.

I thought the same, there are plenty of armchair expert teachers criticising the idea of a performance management model.

I won't armchair expert teaching if you don't armchair expert performance management and statistics modelling

 

[Von Smallhausen]

My pay has been eroded as has my pension and my workload is often crushing. Whilst I have no right to strike - and have no desire to strike even if I had - I just get on with it. I notice that yet again, teaching staff don't arrange their protests for a school holiday - where I dare say their message could still be heard.

Massive disruption to hard working parents who take holidays to cover this who in turn lose out financially and at the end of it all it will change nothing.

No sympathy here I'm afraid.

 

[easyrider]

I agree. If teachers don't like the terms, find another job.

Considering the majority don't then you wouldn't have any teachers

So your argument is flawed.

 

[easyrider]

Massive disruption to hard working parents who take holidays to cover this who in turn lose out financially and at the end of it all it will change nothing.

No sympathy here I'm afraid.

There have already been concessions made due to the last strike...Why should the government be allowed to wreck the education system?

Its precisely these hardworking parents the teachers are looking out for...

what parent in their right mind wants a 65 year old teaching their kids?

 

[Lakeland]

I'm not even sure what the issue is, I literally hardly ever hear a teacher complain about pay, at the end of the day the salary is clear as day before you train and from September teachers won't progress up the payscale unless performance is up to standard.

The issue we have at the moment is that poor staff are bullied out which means they are still able to work in other schools so the problem just goes round in circles.

Regarding 65year old teachers, that idea is absolutely hideous, there must be some kind of ulterior motive because there is no way the majority of teachers will retire at that age. I wouldn't work over the age of 60 while in charge of a classroom it wouldn't be fair on the kids or me, it seems completely counterintuitive when they're trying to raise standards.

 

[RDM]

Take ICT for example. An easy example to understand and share. One day they have a curriculum, they know what to teach and have examples of what students should achieve. Then Gove decides this isn't what the uk or business need. It's computing. So all students must learn computing, regardless of ability. But there are no standards, no expectations, no guidelines... They just couldn't be bothered. Students that can't spell yet -well they have to learn computing because they could change the future of the uk! Oh, and students having skills using office fully isn't what business need, they all know this already by some magical osmosis. Good policy?

God yes it is a good policy, the previous ICT curriculum was utter rubbish and scrapping it was one of the best things to happen to school IT for a long time. With the support of organisations like CAS there is loads of assistance for teachers wanting to teach Computing. KS2 and KS3 haven't really changed that much but now have the addition of some programming, mostly visual languages like Scratch or Espresso. It isn't until KS4 that text based programming kicks in, but that is a long overdue change.

From next year, levels don't exist in primary schools and up to year 9. So how do you grade students? That's up to you. But if ofsted don't like it when they visit you risk going in to special measures. That's more visits, massive changes to the school system, falling numbers when parents see ofsted reports... Oh and if you child moves school -we'll they will probably be graded in a different way - that will be so helpful to staff moving schools or parents. All because of what? The government not being able to suggest a better way to do things. The pressure this will place schools and teachers under is incredible.

Those would be the levels that don't work anyway? 97% of kids come out of primary school with a L4 in literacy allegedly, this certainly isn't reflected in Y7 intakes...

I bet everyone would love to be assessed on the role they do in a single ofsted 20 minute observation. I will come in and watch you do your job for that time and decide if you are outstanding, good, room for improvement or inadequate.

This isn't how Ofsted grade teaching, it is mostly done from the results of the school. The quality of teaching isn't graded from the 20min observations.