motherboard = New “Microsoft: Upgraded windows Licence”

Slam62 said:
As i understand it you can replace a defective motherboard anyone could have a defective mboard and how could ms check.
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this is my question, can different motherboards be identified by MS when you come to register your install?
say you upgraded your motherboard but said you were just replacing a defective board, would MS know the difference?
 
Yes, MS can tell if you have changed the MB but should that lose your right to use the software?

And I remember (I think it was Otacon) saying that that there's a european directive that states that any product that is purchased cannot simply vanish into non-existance, which is effectively whats happening if you need to change the MB.

I would like to see someone challenge MS on this one.

Burnsy
 
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boy this is a can of woms is it not.

the sticker should be fixed to the case as per microsoft. but the case could be changed , now the sticker is not on the case of the PC that is running the software, license broken
 
Slam62 said:
please find me another example where a fully paid for product cannot be used even though it is in fully working order.
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If you buy a ticket for the cheap seats at a concert and the gig is half empty you can't complain that you expect to be shown to the empty royal box just because there's no one in it and it doesn't cost the venue any more to let you in. You get what you pay for

Slam62 said:
If you buy the retail copy you are paying for something which is expensive and you dont want, ie the helpline.
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No, if you buy the retail copy you get the ability to transfer it between PCs which is what you want. You get what you pay for, if you're not worried about a MS tech support line or being able to transfer a copy of XP between machines you get a cheaper version of XP that take into account the limitations


Slam62 said:
Obviously its up to ms what they charge as they have no real competition and if you think this is good ok. However when you have a situation where the market is effectively owned by a monopoly then in the uk we usually have some sort of regulator making sure things dont get out of hand. As i said above though, they've only ever asked me if it is installed on one pc which i think is perfectly reasonable. At the end of the day they cant police the no upgrade bit anyway. As i understand it you can replace a defective motherboard anyone could have a defective mboard and how could ms check.
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Do you really think £100 is a lot to pay considering what it does and given the price of a decent PC? a single Game is £35, Video card could be £500 but you won't pay £100 for an OS that does a good job and allows everything else to work? Just because MS might not know you're breaking the law doesn't mean it right to do so...

Slam62 said:
The fuss is really because it gives ms more bad press when they are trying to improve their public image and its just pointless and desperate money making.
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MS gets bad press by insisting people that thought they'd found a cheap way of exploiting OEM software actually stick to the rules? Hmm....

Slam62 said:
This is just my opinion and of course i have to obey the rules, but I find this 5 minor upgrades bit unfair as well, if i pay for a license, i should be able to use the license as i see fit, within reason, which brings me back to one pc at anyone time. Its not a subscription, if it was most people wouldnt bother, its an attempt to work on a subscription basis by the back door.
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It's nothing of the sort, you buy an OEM license cheaper because it's only for a single PC, nothing to do with subscriptions whatsoever. If you buy a dell PC (or car or whatever) and then buy a second one later do they allow you to cover both PCs with the first warrantee, or even moce the warrentee between PCS as it suits you? If you buy a PC with a £20 video card in it covered by the warrantee would expect it to still be covered if you canged all the internals and upgraded them? Or do you buy what is appropriate?

Slam62 said:
The oem copy is not sold as subscription nore is it made clear at the time of purchase that it is tied to one motherboard, in addition oem software is generally none returnable, (but how that fits in with the distance selling regulations i dont know). A lot of firms in a lot of fields make certain conditions but not all are actually allowable.
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Yes it is made clear, it's in the EULA and on the Microsoft website. Did you think it was just magically £100 cheaper for no reason? Microsoft did not sell you the software, a reseller did, did you ask them why it was cheaper? If there were any conditions? Surely you check what you are buying before you spend money on it? OEM software was never intended to be sold to the general public, it was intended to be sold to PC manufacturers as i've already explained once.
 
burnsy2023 said:
Yes, MS can tell if you have changed the MB but should that lose your right to use the software?

And I remember (I think it was Otacon) saying that that there's a european directive that states that any product that is purchased cannot simply vanish into non-existance, which is effectively whats happening if you need to change the MB.

I would like to see someone challenge MS on this one.

Burnsy
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It does not vanish - it stays with the motherboard...
 
ok the concert ticket, i would expect what i'd paid for
the pc i'd expect my rights for each pc
he last point - yeah everyone who buys anything is exected to go to the manufacturers website and readall the small reprint.
re the cost no i dont think its a lot but its the price, they can charge what they like - another story
if i change all the bits in a pc that was bought as a unit then obviously its not the same pc.

So cars as an example, is the engine of a car licensed to a particular bodyshell
are the wheels are the seats is the engine management unit

do you buy a telly that you only can watch bbc on, obviously not, i need a few real examples, the only one you quoted would have been an upgraded service which does actually happen but is purely complementary.
ok do i buy a kite that can only be used with one particular string
do i buy a fishing rod that must only be used on one river, i think you'll find that all other products you may use as you wish the only thing you may lose is a warranty

if you want to take your new merc apart you can, if you want to paint it you can, mercedes wont dissable the engine because they dont like what you did with the car. In fact you can put any engine you like in the thing. MS are the only company who would attempt such control on a product. Perhaps they should stop you using it if you type stuff they dont like.

Ok i've thought of one for you, car tax and insurance, if you scrap or sell the car you cant use these, however you can get a partial refund and transfer the insurance to another car.
 
You're missing the point...

There's two fishing rods for sale, one for £500 that allows you to fish any river you like and one rod that you are only allowed to use on one river but because of this it's only £50. You can't buy the cheap one and then complain that as you've got a fully working fishing rod you should be allowed to use it anywhere. You bought what you bought.

Car tax is in effect a subscription, you buy it for a duration and renew it each year, you are entitled to use it for a year even if you change cars something you just complained about and accused Microsoft of trying to do. By your analogy you could buy car Tax for £150 for a year that you transfer to a new car if you changed it or you could buy tax for a year that was non transfereable for £50. You want to buy the cheap one and then still transfer it as if it was the expensive one.

You get your rights with a PC, OEM is for one PC only, simple. Somwehere you have to draw the line that if you change enough parts it's no longer the same PC. MS chose the obvious option, the motherboard.

You've really not thought this through...

If you can't be bothered to check what you're buying before you buy it it's hardly MS fault. Did it never occur to you there might be a reason an OEM copy is £100 cheaper, did you ask OCUK or who ever you bought it from?
 
where can i buy a fishing rod that only allows me to fish one river unless its a rented rod

I think the description of the goods at the point of puchase is what counts

I'm trying to think this through but it wont gell, i didnt buy the pc i just bought the cd, whats the rest of it got to do with ms or anyone else

your just in league with corporate oppression and control

i can sort of understand activation to stop the pirates but just making people register for security updates would have done the same.

ok so car tax and insurance are not examples, i've come up with no examples, you've come up with a ficticious fishing rod example started by me. where is a real similar situation? please

i'll give you another possible example (ficticious as i cant think of a proper one)
um ..... .... um ..... ... oh dear, there must be something remotely similar and vaguely possible

ok football, i buy a ticket to watch chelsea and get qpr no thats wrong

i buy a ticket to see qpr and expect chelsea thats your arguement yes i know but i dont i expect to see chelsea, but i would like to see the whole game and not get chucked out just because i finnished my coffee and got some hot chocolat, but my ticket says i can only watch the game if i'm drinking the one cup of coffee i bought at the beginning and if it goes cold tough i have to buy another ticket before i can buy more coffee to watch the rest of the game (this assumes coffee was required to watch the game) ooh err best you think of something
 
Slam62 said:
I'm trying to think this through but it wont gell, i didnt buy the pc i just bought the cd, whats the rest of it got to do with ms or anyone else
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It's got everything to do with MS because what you actually bought from them is a license to use Windows under their terms. Owning the physical CD makes no difference. You don't own the software, just a license to use it in a specific way.
 
burnsy2023 said:
But say the MB is faulty, therefore you have lost the right to use the software?

Burnsy
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An OEM license allows you to replace a faulty mobo, as long as its the same model. When you activate the key it takes a snapshot of your hardware, and thats what it uses as the basis every other time you re-activate the same key. You can change everything except the mobo model.
 
Slam62 said:
snip: example....etc etc
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I can give you a good example...

You buy a piece of software that implicitly states in the license that you cannot transfer that license key to another computer. The definition of 'another computer' is a change in the motherboard. If you would like a copy of the program that allows to to swap it over to as many machines you would like, then you pay extra for a full version.

;) hows that.

Gotta agree with tmileson here, you're complaining because MS have cracked down on people taking advantage on a loophole in the OEM market, which is perfectly within their right to do.

By buying OEM you're buying a severly restricted license, thats why its so cheap, you want more...you pay more, simple as that. The mobo rule has always been the case, its not a recent thing, maybe a bit more research wouldn't have gone amiss when you bought it eh ;)
 
chimaera said:
snip
By buying OEM you're buying a severly restricted license, thats why its so cheap, you want more...you pay more, simple as that. The mobo rule has always been the case, its not a recent thing, maybe a bit more research wouldn't have gone amiss when you bought it eh ;)
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But you can only buy a OEM xp64 or use the trial version , so if you buy you are stuck
 
Slam62 said:
i buy a ticket to see qpr and expect chelsea thats your arguement yes i know but i dont i expect to see chelsea, but i would like to see the whole game and not get chucked out just because i finnished my coffee and got some hot chocolat, but my ticket says i can only watch the game if i'm drinking the one cup of coffee i bought at the beginning and if it goes cold tough i have to buy another ticket before i can buy more coffee to watch the rest of the game (this assumes coffee was required to watch the game) ooh err best you think of something
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Ok I'll try this one last time coz it's getting silly now..

Coffee has nothing to do with it :)

You buy a ticket for QPR v Chelsea that lets you sit anywhere in a particular stand. This tickets costs £20, allows you to watch the match with certain conditions (i.e. it's only for a particular stand).

You could also have bought a ticket for £50 that lets you watch the same match but now entitles you to watch from any seat/ any stand.

Finally you could have bought a ticket for £100 that lets you watch from a private box (with hot coffee provided just to make you happy ;) ).

All allow you the same basic entiltlement (to watch the match). The difference is if you pay less you get less additional benfits (in windows case you can't transfer the license, with the footy you can't buy the basic ticket and then demand to be let into the private box).

You buy what is appropriate to you based on the decision you make as to what you actually want. If you want all the bells an whistles you buy the top end ticket or XP FPP. If you want to save some money and accept that although you get the same basic service there may be some limitations you buy OEM/the cheap seats.

Please tell me that makes sense... I don't think I can cope with any more analogys :D :D :D
 
Well to put a note of caution into this interesting debate, I have *never* heard of the website where they make this claim about licensing If it was an article in The Register, BBC Technology, or similar I would take the "facts" stated in it rather more seriously. I tend not to believe anything I read that's IT related unless it comes from a very reliable source...
 
puppy said:
Well to put a note of caution into this interesting debate, I have *never* heard of the website where they make this claim about licensing If it was an article in The Register, BBC Technology, or similar I would take the "facts" stated in it rather more seriously. I tend not to believe anything I read that's IT related unless it comes from a very reliable source...
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I've heard this from Microsoft Customer Support, i called them up a few years ago when i was debating to get a retail copy or OEM copy of XP.

They implicitly told me the license is tied to the mobo, it knows what the other components are, but doesn't consider a dvd-rw or graphics card as a 'new PC'. I went from a tower to shuttle PC with the same components, but SFF mobo, was told i needed a new XP license.

Always been the case, as i've said this is nothing new at all.

But you can only buy a OEM xp64 or use the trial version , so if you buy you are stuck
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That is a bit harsh, but then again the market for xp64 isn't very large, maybe they didn't want to charge £200 or so for what is effectively a faster version of XP, so just stuck to the OEM market.

I've gone through 2 OEM copies, and are very much of the opinion that the retail version is much better value, when Vista comes out thats what i'll be getting.
 
chimaera said:
An OEM license allows you to replace a faulty mobo, as long as its the same model. When you activate the key it takes a snapshot of your hardware, and thats what it uses as the basis every other time you re-activate the same key. You can change everything except the mobo model.
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What if its old MB and you can't get spares?

Burnsy
 
nobody has come up with a remotely similar example, you're all clutching at straws.

If i go tothe theatre, i buy a ticket for the show my seat breaks, i dont get chucked out, i get moved to another seat (yes i know i dont get to see a better show)

If i buy a piece of software its mine to use as i please,but not to copy or use in a way contrary to the laws of the land, fortunately ms does not define the law in this country.

You probably think microsoft are gong through anti tust proceedings with the eu and were done by the justice department because they are such a fair generous company.

At the end of the day they are pushing their luck to maximise profitability which is what all companies must do.MS is an example of a very mature company trying to acheive further organic growth, hence the attempts to get into games consoles and phones and tv etc.

You lot are so naiive, just lie on your back waving your legs in the air as you chuck your money away.

You need to wake up you mamby pamby bunch of pushovers, britain would never have become the great nation it is today if we were all mamby pamby liberals like you.

Look what chamberlain did just before the second world war, do you think Churchill should have said 'yes thats fine mr hitler' you take poland hungary and the rest, if you want to, come over here and have all our birds too, we're terribly sorry we spoke up against you. that would have worked well.
 
Slam62 said:
You lot are so naiive, just lie on your back waving your legs in the air as you chuck your money away.

You need to wake up you mamby pamby bunch of pushovers, britain would never have become the great nation it is today if we were all mamby pamby liberals like you.
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LOL oh dear :D :o
 
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