Motorsport Off Topic Thread

deuse · 11 Aug 2013 at 16:54

Alibaba99 said:
RBR have the largest budget on the grid. They also weren't a new team, they bought out an existing one.

And if you believe the other F1 team owners(I do) RB spend a hell of a lot more then they let on.

arknor · 11 Aug 2013 at 17:30

Cavallino said:
That was Honda. Not Toyota.

And Toyota in the day was spending the most in the F1 paddock (I think it was 2008).

yea and they were only **** because they ran the team like Japanese people do companies

Cavallino · 11 Aug 2013 at 17:41

arknor said:
yea and they were only **** because they ran the team like Japanese people do companies

Im not sure where to begin with this one...

EDIT: Just so that I haven't misunderstood you arknor.
You are saying that because Toyota or Honda ran the teams under Japanese management culture (i.e. same as a Japanese company would be run under Japanese management), that contributed to the failure/lack of success of said teams?

arknor · 11 Aug 2013 at 18:03

their management style did not suit f1 and that is a fact not up for debate

Cavallino · 11 Aug 2013 at 18:20

arknor said:
their management style did not suit f1 and that is a fact not up for debate

I see ok.

So basically you are saying it was Brawns ingenuity as a team principle and adherence to non-Japanese management style which won them the 2009 WDC?

tummelv · 11 Aug 2013 at 18:50

arknor said:
if you want to give someone recognition based on the teams budget then the midfield teams likely do a lot more with what resources they have available compared to any of the massive budget teams who can basically throw money at a problem until it goes away

Indeed. I may be wrong but I recalled reading somewhere that Lotus spend as much as Sauber. If true it's staggering they can even fight for podiums, never mind race wins.

this_is_gav · 11 Aug 2013 at 19:42

Cavallino said:
So basically you are saying it was Brawns ingenuity as a team principle and adherence to non-Japanese management style which won them the 2009 WDC?

Honda/BAR have always been a British-led team though.

Toyota... I'm not sure how Japanese they were. They were based in Germany and headed by the Japanese, but I don't know how much hands-on influence they had on the day-to-day affairs of the team. Richard Cregan was the team manager.

Westyfield2 · 11 Aug 2013 at 20:02

arknor said:
yea and they were only **** because they ran the team like Japanese people do companies

Erm, Japanese companies are some of the best run and taught the rest of the world how to do quality control. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

Cavallino · 11 Aug 2013 at 20:05

this_is_gav said:
Honda/BAR have always been a British-led team though.

Toyota... I'm not sure how Japanese they were. They were based in Germany and headed by the Japanese, but I don't know how much hands-on influence they had on the day-to-day affairs of the team. Richard Cregan was the team manager.

Exactly. I have a friend who worked in BAR, I believe he was involved in the logistics side, he spoke fluent Japanese and from what I recall from our conversations about the team, it was more British-led.

I believe Toyota management were definitely more involved with the team.

Cavallino · 11 Aug 2013 at 20:09

Westyfield2 said:
Erm, Japanese companies are some of the best run and taught the rest of the world how to do quality control. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

See I was thinking the same think Westy, but arknor does make a valid point in that Japanese management styles and quality controls AKA Kaisen etc, may not necessarily be suited and applied in the same manner to Formula 1 teams. There maybe some behemoth Japanese companies out there which are run extremely well, but that in itself doesn't validate the statement that F1 teams which have Japanese management culture, would be also successful.

Infact there have been no Japanese constructors that won the WCC.

But I have to emphasise, that it could be just a coincidence, there have not been that many Japanese constructors in Formula 1 in any one season. So the correlation between success in F1 teams and Japanese management style may still be unknown till now.

arknor · 11 Aug 2013 at 20:42

Westyfield2 said:
Erm, Japanese companies are some of the best run and taught the rest of the world how to do quality control. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

but it doesn't translate very well into sports

japan also has some of the worst worker suicide rates in the world

MagicBoy · 11 Aug 2013 at 20:45

Westyfield2 said:
Erm, Japanese companies are some of the best run and taught the rest of the world how to do quality control. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

Great. On a production line.

An F1 team is a completely different entity. It's a never ending R&D exercise with two prototypes, using sporting achievement as a yardstick.

MissChief · 11 Aug 2013 at 20:55

The problem with Japanese teams was that everything was so regimented and set in stone that any changes would be discussed and meetings would happen and people would always defer to their boss. If their boss wasn't an aerodynamicist they wouldn't try to explain why their idea would work if the boss said no, they would just accept it. F1 is a fast moving business where a small update can mean 0.1 of a second improvement. Over a race than can be four to five seconds. Races are won by less.

MagicBoy · 11 Aug 2013 at 20:58

Yep.

Great system for creating reliable, powerful F1 engines. Not for running the entire team.

Duke · 11 Aug 2013 at 21:43

Honda didn't help themselves by having a top aero guy who hasn't done cars before. Good job.

Cavallino · 12 Aug 2013 at 08:15

arknor said:
but it doesn't translate very well into sports

japan also has some of the worst worker suicide rates in the world

arknor said:
that is a fact not up for debate

GravyMonster · 12 Aug 2013 at 10:52

IIRC Honda had quite a hands off management approach when they bought the team from BAR, and it wasn't until the big successes of 04/05 that they decided to get more involved from ~2006. And then it nose dived.

this_is_gav · 12 Aug 2013 at 11:23

Nismo said:
Hilarious Indian rallying video

http://adamcooperf1.com/2013/08/09/video-shut-up-dont-tell-me-how-to-drive/

Nismo · 12 Aug 2013 at 11:35

lulwut?

He's taken offence because the co-driving/driving was seen as comical? :confused:

GravyMonster · 12 Aug 2013 at 11:53

Was that the co-driver, or the driver taking the legal action?

If it's the co-driver, he's a muppet. If it's the driver, he's a moronic driver and a muppet.