Motorsport Off Topic Thread

deuse · 1 Oct 2013 at 16:34

Is rb cheating again? a mate sent me this link http://autosprint.corrieredellosport.it/2013/09/30/sentite-il-rumore-del-motore-di-vettel/10584/

Listen and you will hear the car off throttle on the bend.

Skeeter · 1 Oct 2013 at 17:00

Not been to a race recently? They all sound like that, and have done since the mapping ban.

The FIA made a hash job of the regulations around throttle position regarding mappings and blowing, but rather than try again to ban it, they are just waiting for next year where it all gets removed through irreverence anyway.

deuse · 1 Oct 2013 at 20:57

Skeeter said:
Not been to a race recently? They all sound like that, and have done since the mapping ban..

None of the other cars sounded like that and some team principals are saying the same.
James Allen says it maybe a legal off throttle.

JRS · 1 Oct 2013 at 21:23

deuse said:
Is rb cheating again?

deuse said:
James Allen says it maybe a legal off throttle.

The car obviously passes muster with the scrutineers, so it's legal to race. If it gets clarified out of existence before the end of the year, I assume we'll go with the usual plan on here and call for a retroactive DQ from all the races so far?

deuse · 1 Oct 2013 at 21:53

JRS said:
The car obviously passes muster with the scrutineers, so it's legal to race. If it gets clarified out of existence before the end of the year, I assume we'll go with the usual plan on here and call for a retroactive DQ from all the races so far?

Really?

FIA
Car tick
Four wheels tick
Wight OK Tick
Back hander tick...good to go

I wish that the FIA checked the cars like Nascar does.

MissChief · 2 Oct 2013 at 02:26

deuse said:
Really?

FIA
Car tick
Four wheels tick
Wight OK Tick
Back hander tick...good to go

I wish that the FIA checked the cars like Nascar does.

Seriously? There was a time when cars routinely cheated. One time the scrutineers stripped a car, declared it legal and the crew chief drove it back to the pit lane. Not unusual except the fuel tank was still sitting on the floor of the garage.

JRS · 2 Oct 2013 at 08:16

Good ol' Smokey

sunama · 2 Oct 2013 at 08:46

Illegal cars add spice to the F1 season.
I like it when teams take risks.
Unfortunately these days only RBR, Merc and perhaps Ferrari appear to be those who want to take a risk.

A risky team generally finds a grey area.
They keep quiet about it.
They implement it.
They run with it in the race.
If they get caught out - they act innocent.
The FIA then "clarifies" the rule and the illegal implementation gets banned from then on. The team then looks for another a loop-hole.
And so on.

This is the sort of out of the box thinking is what I like to see.
And I love it when teams are accused of cheating, but the FIA (whose opinion is the only one which counts), standby and do nothing.

deuse · 2 Oct 2013 at 10:39

In my opinion there should be a rule that says "if the car is found to be illegal after a race the team will lose both WDC\WCC points
and will have a 10 place grid penalty for both cars" sounds fair to me. RB had a hole in their floor for 3-4 races
it was deemed illegal but they never lost any points.

JRS · 2 Oct 2013 at 14:48

deuse said:
In my opinion there should be a rule that says "if the car is found to be illegal after a race the team will lose both WDC\WCC points
and will have a 10 place grid penalty for both cars" sounds fair to me.

How much different is that to what we have now? If a car is found to be illegal post-race, it gets DQ'd. I guess grid penalties would be new, but that's about it.

deuse said:
RB had a hole in their floor for 3-4 races
it was deemed illegal but they never lost any points.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand there it is. The classic OcUK Motorsport misconception about F1 car illegality.

Yes, the RB8 had a slot in the floor. That slotted floor was first used at the Bahrain GP in 2012, and was complained about in the run-up to the Monaco round. It passed scrutineering at every race it was used at. Before the Canadian GP, the FIA changed the rules to make it illegal and RBR changed the floor. It was not illegal before those rule clarifications. It may have been outside of the spirit of the regulations, but according to the letter of those regulations it was legal to race. So how could they take any points off them? When the car was never raced in an illegal form?

deuse · 2 Oct 2013 at 15:17

JRS said:
How much different is that to what we have now? If a car is found to be illegal post-race, it gets DQ'd. I guess grid penalties would be new, but that's about it.

If a car now is found to be illegal after a race then nothing happens but this does not include fuel.

"3.12.5 This explains enclosed holes are only allowed 450mm forward of the rear of the cockpit template (the very front of the sidepods). This implies enclosed holes are not allowed elsewhere."

This is why some people are going off F1, break a rule and nothing will happen unless a team\twg puts in a protest.

Yes it took the teams 3 races to get the twg to look into it why it took that long I don't know.

El_Watcher · 2 Oct 2013 at 17:11

Just as an aside to the rules, is there anything written forbidding weapons? :eek:

I don't mean missiles or machine guns, but something like an EMP cannon, that would kill the electronics in the other cars. What rule would actually forbid this?

Skeeter · 2 Oct 2013 at 17:14

Don't bother JRS. I've had the "It was illegal!" vs. "The FIA clarified the rules" argument so many times that I've given up and just let those people continue to believe its all back handers and people turning blind eyes.

And in this specific case, RBR are blowing while off throttle, and legally, as are most of the other teams. Its due to the poor wording of the FIA rules around 100% throttle position or something, but I simply cannot be bothered to dig up the full details.

dannyjo22 · 2 Oct 2013 at 17:35

El_Watcher said:
Just as an aside to the rules, is there anything written forbidding weapons?

I don't mean missiles or machine guns, but something like an EMP cannon, that would kill the electronics in the other cars. What rule would actually forbid this?

They use one on webbers car for fun sometimes.

Skeeter · 2 Oct 2013 at 17:43

dannyjo22 said:
They use one on webbers car for fun sometimes.

Haha

Poor guy

Reaper 392 · 2 Oct 2013 at 18:03

if anyone else is having problems with the video then here's what i assume is supposed to be the video:

I somehow doubt that weapons would be allowed, Although there are people clever enough to get around all sorts of rules, so i'm sure that they could come up with something.

Skeeter · 2 Oct 2013 at 18:12

Some of the drivers could be considered weapons...

deuse · 2 Oct 2013 at 18:43

Reaper 392 said:
if anyone else is having problems with the video then here's what i assume is supposed to be the video:

I somehow doubt that weapons would be allowed, Although there are people clever enough to get around all sorts of rules, so i'm sure that they could come up with something.

It's all ok now as skeeter knows all about it and says that it's legal. I don't know if he will show us how they did it?

TaKeN · 2 Oct 2013 at 19:02

Race Car Engineering have just put up an 'interesting' article on what might be happening with Vettels car!

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news/red-bulls-traction-secret-revealed/

Reaper 392 · 2 Oct 2013 at 20:15

Very interesting, Although i dont know how they can say that its legal when it is illegal to use anything that modulates the torque going to the wheels in order to prevent wheelspin, or words very similar to that (other than the driver's foot of course)