Motorsport Off Topic Thread
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
So what happens when a driver suffers a bit of damage that the team would usually tell them to change diff settings for? Tough luck, the driver has to figure it out for himself?
The issue with this whole thing is that the drivers have a number of tools at their disposal, but they do not have all the supporting information to correctly use those tools without assistance from the team. All the settings on their wheels are for things the team have the information to advise on. The drivers do not know the outside air temp, fuel flow rate, cylinder temps, fuel pressure, fuel usage, etc to know which engine map to use. The team do, and they tell the driver.
And then thats before we get to the rather massive issue of appeal. Are we going to see every team collate the transcripts of every single other car on the grid at the end of every race and trawl through it for things they can claim was against the rules? Should we just not bother with the podium and wait until the middle of the next week for the FIA to decide who won and who broke the rules after reviewing every single radio conversation and every appeal from every team about every other team?
Its a complete farce. Like the team orders stupidity. Its completely unenforceable. Teams will just use codes, or use negatives. Can Hamiltons engineer tell him that Nico is slower than him in sectors 2 and 3? Or that Nico's tyres are cooler than Hamiltons? Nico is slower through turns 1, 2, 3, 4..... 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10? Are they allowed to tell them where other people who aren't their team mate is? Hell, are they even allowed to tell a driver during qualifying where he currently is in the standings?
Or just use safety? "Braking any less than 50m before turn 5 will be unsafe" while the driver is currently braking 60m from it, telling him theres a 10m improvement to be made? "Using mix 7 will overheat the engine" while the driver is in mix 5, telling them mix 6 is ok?
Its yet another completely stupid, badly thought out, knee jerk reaction useless rule from a bunch of idiots.
The issue with this whole thing is that the drivers have a number of tools at their disposal, but they do not have all the supporting information to correctly use those tools without assistance from the team. All the settings on their wheels are for things the team have the information to advise on. The drivers do not know the outside air temp, fuel flow rate, cylinder temps, fuel pressure, fuel usage, etc to know which engine map to use. The team do, and they tell the driver.
And then thats before we get to the rather massive issue of appeal. Are we going to see every team collate the transcripts of every single other car on the grid at the end of every race and trawl through it for things they can claim was against the rules? Should we just not bother with the podium and wait until the middle of the next week for the FIA to decide who won and who broke the rules after reviewing every single radio conversation and every appeal from every team about every other team?
Its a complete farce. Like the team orders stupidity. Its completely unenforceable. Teams will just use codes, or use negatives. Can Hamiltons engineer tell him that Nico is slower than him in sectors 2 and 3? Or that Nico's tyres are cooler than Hamiltons? Nico is slower through turns 1, 2, 3, 4..... 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10? Are they allowed to tell them where other people who aren't their team mate is? Hell, are they even allowed to tell a driver during qualifying where he currently is in the standings?
Or just use safety? "Braking any less than 50m before turn 5 will be unsafe" while the driver is currently braking 60m from it, telling him theres a 10m improvement to be made? "Using mix 7 will overheat the engine" while the driver is in mix 5, telling them mix 6 is ok?
Its yet another completely stupid, badly thought out, knee jerk reaction useless rule from a bunch of idiots.
"Ah Charlie, you see, our driver running out of fuel and being slow on the racing line is a safey risk to all other drivers, so we are allowed to tell them"
Exactly that for me. How far will their stupid ideas go?
It'll all stop when they make up so much **** that a team don't alert their driver of impending danger in case of a penalty and someone gets hurt. Just because it's "in the interest of the sport."
You have to wonder how stupid the FIA really are?
They are worried that fans don't understand why teams are telling their drivers how to drive, yet are perfectly happy to put in rules meaning all radio messages will be codes, and race results will be challenged and appealed and changed days/weeks later as those codes are decyphered, protested, and penalties retrospectively applied.
They are worried that fans don't understand why teams are telling their drivers how to drive, yet are perfectly happy to put in rules meaning all radio messages will be codes, and race results will be challenged and appealed and changed days/weeks later as those codes are decyphered, protested, and penalties retrospectively applied.
Baning radio all together would be better. At least that way it wouldn't be open to interpretation, confusion, debate and contradiction.
I wonder which team will be the first to "do a Ferrari" and breach the rules without explicitly breaching them, therefore highlighting the failing.
I wonder which team will be the first to "do a Ferrari" and breach the rules without explicitly breaching them, therefore highlighting the failing.
Checks calendar.
Hmmmm
How odd, I would be happy with a complete radio ban rather than this. I'd be happier still with letting them tell the drivers what ever they wanted but removing all controls from the steering wheel except gear change. That way they could tell them whatever they wanted and it's up to driver style rather than an electronic system.
Hmmmm
How odd, I would be happy with a complete radio ban rather than this. I'd be happier still with letting them tell the drivers what ever they wanted but removing all controls from the steering wheel except gear change. That way they could tell them whatever they wanted and it's up to driver style rather than an electronic system.
I'm not so sure about that. If the teams have gone for the modern digital screen dash, then possibly. Also depends if they're on the older or newer screen too. But several teams (including Red Bull) are still running the 7 segment displays, so it's a bit more complicated to get all that info to show.
Personally, just remove the radios. Won't have any arguments about what is or isn't a instruction. Could even go a step further and remove the radio telemetry too. Just have it when the car is on it's umbilical to monitor on startup.
It's a completely barking thing to bring in at this point of the championship. But it's the FIA, so I'm still waiting for them to say that they have to run only one set of tyres all weekend, oh and they'll be the full wets no matter what the conditions are, and if you wreck them, tough.
Soldato
- Joined
- 17 Oct 2005
- Posts
- 6,243
- Location
- North of Watford Gap
Either do it half-heartedly and have it fade away (as this will) or go the whole hog and only allow messages from the pit-wall in the interests of safety ("yellow flag in turn 2", "track blocked on the S/F straight", "stop as the brakes are about to fail", "Maldonado is in sector 2", etc).
No codes, only facts clearly open to the public. If this is left to interpretation it won't make the season end.
No codes, only facts clearly open to the public. If this is left to interpretation it won't make the season end.
Agreed.
So, set the diff' and brake bias and all that good stuff before the start of the race, and any changes in car handling have to be managed by the driver rather than dialed back out....me likey.
So is saying 'you need to move brake bias back' 'driving the car'? Can they give information? 'Front brakes are getting too hot Lewis' or is that driving the car too? They can't ban it because how do we know what's safety advice, advice to maximise performance and advice that is just information? It's crazy. They've made the cars so complex the drivers can't hope to get their heads round all the changes possible. You only need to consider how may technicians and Engineers they have to deal with all the different parameters the car has. Fair enough telling the driver to make changes but all the teams will do is throw millions into automating the car more rather than letting the driver choose 'Torque mode 6' and 'Bias 6, Recovery 5' on the advice of the team. I wouldn't be surprised to see more retirements and 'code words' being developed. 'Nicole Lewis, Nicole' or 'Go to Sutil mode please Lewis' or something equally daft. Stupid rule.
So, set the diff' and brake bias and all that good stuff before the start of the race, and any changes in car handling have to be managed by the driver rather than dialed back out....me likey.
I think I'd even be happy with the dial for adjusting bias fron to rear but everything from the wheel, engine modes, fuel modes, launch etc all removed from the wheel. Literally just let them have a radio button and gear shift.
Far better than all these modes they call out and we have no idea what they are doing or hiding. If they need to save fuel do it with the foot rather than mode 3 or whatever.
Just read a brilliant idea on Twitter. If the problem is the fans interpretation or confusion at the radio messages telling the drivers how to drive the cars, why not just... not broadcast them? Its not affecting the racing, the 'problem' is image, so why not just change the image rather than fiddle with the racing?
And before someone says "but I like the radio messages", the FIA clearly don't care about those of us who understand them, they are obviously more interested in appeasing those who don't.
Edit: Or this:
That makes much more sense.
And before someone says "but I like the radio messages", the FIA clearly don't care about those of us who understand them, they are obviously more interested in appeasing those who don't.
Edit: Or this:
That makes much more sense.
Last edited:
Just out of interest why is "brake more smoothly into turn 3" or "lift and coast where you can" any different from a manager shouting at his players from the sidelines on a Saturday afternoon.
Just because the pits say thats what he should be doing, doesnt mean the driver is capable of doing it (for any number of reasons).
Live (rather than time delayed) transmission of all radio messages.......would love that but will never happen lol
Just because the pits say thats what he should be doing, doesnt mean the driver is capable of doing it (for any number of reasons).
Live (rather than time delayed) transmission of all radio messages.......would love that but will never happen lol
We might find a special German version:
"Nico, ist Lewis schneller als Sie. Ich wiederhole, schneller als Sie."
