Hahaha
Motorsport Off Topic Thread
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Hahaha
The Sochi circuit has held its first race, and the reviews are in:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115895
Yay....
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115895
Yay....
Soldato
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Ugh. Even from the pictures it looks like someone picked up Valencia and dumped it in South West Russia.
Soldato
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Its worrying when the only compliment the drivers can think of is that it is a wide circuit considering it is a street circuit
The Sochi circuit has held its first race, and the reviews are in:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115895
Yay....
Sounds wonderful...
Caporegime
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Your cars low on power...
You don't know why...
Off you go:
(oh btw, your team know, and they have told Ted, so Sky know, as does everyone watching at home, and all your competitors, and everyone likely to interview you after the race... so best get it right ey...)
The majority of those settings have their normal usage. The failure modes are like, well, cheat codes on a game pad, using normal buttons in a specific sequence to trigger something outside of the normal usage for those buttons.
The majority of those controls will be used frequently per lap, just because there is extra modes doesn't really matter. In multiple situations all the resets having worked anyway.
Your initial point was that all those controls became useless, that is still ludicrous. Drivers change diff/balance and multiple other things every lap depending on the corner, changing conditions. That they will make it difficult to try resetting things is irrelevant to those controls main functions which will absolutely still be used.
People are going with the idea that because the engineer tells them something it's impossible for them to have done it themselves, there is no logical connection there. Not having to remember those sequences previously is NOT at all the same as not being able to remember those sequences.
Here if power goes and doesn't come back, they'll just have to remember how to reset it. But again that doesn't actually ignore the fact that all those controls have NORMAL usage that the drivers will continue to use themselves, making none of those controls obsolete by the new rules.
And you over simplify it. There are many reasons why you can lose power. and the why decides what you need to do. They don't have the info in the car to know what's gone wrong and thus don't know which reset procedure. And if it breaks totally they won't have a clue how to compensate.
Caporegime
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Again, no, I didn't oversimplify it, I haven't said they can restore power. There have been multiple times this year that multiple cars have had failures and don't get the power back and end up retiring. Most of the other problems have been more temporary and resetting the system returned power. If a reset handles it, it doesn't actually matter what caused it in the first place. If it got fixed it got fixed, if you retire you retire.
But again, Skeeter posted to say all those controls are now obsolete. The ONLY point I'm making is that all of those controls will still be used, the secondary panic station mode resetting of various things might well be effected. That does not change my point, that all those controls will still be used by the driver.
Skeeter and now you are focusing on something I wasn't making a point about. Again Skeeter says all those controls are now useless and I'm saying that is completely wrong.
I have additionally pointed out that much of what the driver is instructed to do by an engineer can be done without the engineers input. Again the engineer giving precise instructions because there has been no reason for the driver to learn these reset modes is in no way the same thing as the driver not being able to learn them.
You also presume that the team will know exactly what went wrong and how to fix it. As we've seen via radio messages, the team might know roughly what went wrong, but we've seen, "try this reset thing", and it doesn't work so we get "try this other reset code", and maybe it works, maybe it doesn't.
If my computer crashes, I don't always know what made it crash, but restarting it still puts me back with a usable computer. The idea you have to know precisely what went wrong to get something working again is illogical. Drivers know when something has gone wrong, they learn a few ways to potential reset the system and one might fix it, this is pretty much what the teams are doing currently anyway.
Then, if it brakes totally they won't know how to compensate? If we're talking about rear brakes failing, the drivers don't know to move brake bias forwards... really? More to the point, if something brakes totally, it's race over anyway so it really doesn't matter.
Most of the time till the car is back in the garage and taken apart to find an issue the team DON'T know exactly what went wrong nor exactly how to fix it, we've seen so many "try this, okay then try that, okay try that, okay game over pit" situations. It directly opposes the idea they always know what went wrong. Hamilton's brakes failed in qualifying, the team didn't know till a week or more later precisely what went wrong. But again, you don't have to know what went wrong to try and fix something, anyone should have learned this from years of any electrical device randomly being retarded, being turned on and off and magically working again. That is fundamentally what the teams have been doing to "fix" problems during a race. There is no magical uploading of code to work around a problem, they reset and see if it comes back, it really is that simple.
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It does, as there's different resets for different issues.
Yeah you said they can do it with out engineers instructions. That doesn't mean you are right or they can. As they need the info which they don't have. Remember it's not just the settings they can't be told, they aren't allowed to tell them the issue. Do it's not even learn the controls for each issue and then do it. They won't know what the issue is.
Pretty much every race we've seen manageable issues. That now is very unlikely to be a manageable issue.
As far as I know they won't even know if battery pack is over heating and so can't turn down energy gathering to compensate.
And as you point out it really isn't that simple. as they try many different fixes. Not one master reset switch. Good god, your arguing with yourself.
Yeah you said they can do it with out engineers instructions. That doesn't mean you are right or they can. As they need the info which they don't have. Remember it's not just the settings they can't be told, they aren't allowed to tell them the issue. Do it's not even learn the controls for each issue and then do it. They won't know what the issue is.
Pretty much every race we've seen manageable issues. That now is very unlikely to be a manageable issue.
As far as I know they won't even know if battery pack is over heating and so can't turn down energy gathering to compensate.
And as you point out it really isn't that simple. as they try many different fixes. Not one master reset switch. Good god, your arguing with yourself.
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Jesus, wall of text!
Drunkenmaster, Glaucus has grasped what I'm trying to say. Yes, you have a dial for Diff and a dial for Engine mode, and so on. If the driver wants to change Diff settings they use the Diff dial, simples.
The issue is, what about the 200+ sensors over the car telling the engineers information that the driver doesn't have, which are then used to seed an instruction to the driver to change a dial he otherwise wouldn't know to change?
Its why I started the whole thing by saying "Your cars low on power, you don't know why". In that situation your team would likely know what the problem is, and how to fix it, but as you as the driver don't know, you are now faced with umpteen dials and eleventy-twelve buttons on your wheel of which one, some, many or none of them will fix the issue.
To put it simply, this rule forces drivers into making uninformed decisions. For example, they alone control the engine map, which affects fuel usage, but they have no fuel level readout in the car to be informed about the impact changing that dial has on their ability to finish the race. Therefore that decision is no longer about skill and just about luck.
Drunkenmaster, Glaucus has grasped what I'm trying to say. Yes, you have a dial for Diff and a dial for Engine mode, and so on. If the driver wants to change Diff settings they use the Diff dial, simples.
The issue is, what about the 200+ sensors over the car telling the engineers information that the driver doesn't have, which are then used to seed an instruction to the driver to change a dial he otherwise wouldn't know to change?
Its why I started the whole thing by saying "Your cars low on power, you don't know why". In that situation your team would likely know what the problem is, and how to fix it, but as you as the driver don't know, you are now faced with umpteen dials and eleventy-twelve buttons on your wheel of which one, some, many or none of them will fix the issue.
To put it simply, this rule forces drivers into making uninformed decisions. For example, they alone control the engine map, which affects fuel usage, but they have no fuel level readout in the car to be informed about the impact changing that dial has on their ability to finish the race. Therefore that decision is no longer about skill and just about luck.
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Caporegime
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You did not start off saying "your car is low on power and don't know why", this was the post I responded to, you saying they've rendered every control obsolete, this is what I called you out on. You're doing the classic "oh, I got called out on my bull**** lets change the argument" routine.
Likewise again, the drivers WILL know what's wrong. The driver has direct feedback from... hmmm, oh yes, driving the damn car.
When the front wing breaks, they lose downforce at the front and can feel it in the car, when the turbo breaks the drivers feel the lag in acceleration and will lack the high end power. When the boost button stops working... they'll press the boost button and get no power.
The pitwall has to have this sensor feedback because they have no tactile feedback, they can't feel the lack of acceleration because they aren't in the car. You're ignoring that the drivers radio in and say "downforce has gone" or "my wing is damaged" or "I think I have a puncture", or "my brakes aren't working well", or "I think ers has gone", or "my boost button stopped working".
The drivers have a LOT of feedback the pitwall does not have, but you've entirely overlooked that to make some silly point.
You and Glaucus are also both ignoring the simple thing, there is only a few things they can reset...... if your printer doesn't work, or your network, sometimes rebooting the router does the trick, sometimes the printer, sometimes rebooting the computer does the trick. Jumping up and down outside in the rain won't help, neither will smashing a whole in the wall.
When you reboot the router.... it goes back to working how it was, it might not fix the printing issue..... but it does not break the router. If you turn the printer on and off, it might not fix the issue, but it does not break the printer. If you reboot your computer, maybe that fixes the issue, but now all three things are reset and everything is working fine. If it doesn't then something might be broken, terminal and you need to take it in to a bunch of engineers and repair it.
You're acting like with 2-3 things to reset, and a HUGE amount of feedback from the car itself, that the drivers will have no idea what to fix, and no possible way to fix it and it's complete and utter rubbish.
The likely scenario is like throughout the year when we get drivers say "I think the ERS has gone", the drivers will have an incredibly good idea what is broken and thus directly know the first thing to attempt to reset. Secondly, if the driver just felt a loss of power and couldn't directly guess what to reset.... so the **** what. Reset all of the 3 or 4 things you can possibly reset... what on earth would you have to lose?
Again like I've pointed out, we've had engineers tell a driver, well try fix A, and it didn't work, so try fix B, and it didn't work, so try fix C and wait, it worked. So the idea that the engineers instantly know what is wrong and automatically know how to fix it.... is rubbish itself. We've literally heard engineers do exactly the same thing that any purple shirt IT staff member says, well reset one thing, then the other, then the last thing and hopefully it will work.
So your first post was saying everything on the steering wheel was obsolete, and it was nonsense. Your counter argument completely changed tune, and this is also ridiculous. We have now heard statements from the drivers that they are learning these extra procedures and your argument is based on the drivers having no possibly clue what is wrong AND that mattering, and BOTH assumptions are wrong.
Also the drivers all seem to be reacting positively to their competitors having less information about what they are doing.
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Soldato
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Probably on my own here but I think this is a great thing as perhaps they could move to making the cars more about being a car rather than a moving computer?
Don't get me wrong I love technology but do they really need so much technology in the cars? Is the racing better now than it used to be because of the tech? Sure F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport and develops new technologies but for me I think it's just lost its way.
If the drivers just have to focus on racing a car rather than adjusting engine modes and diff settings then perhaps we'd get a better spectacle?
But hey, just my thoughts
Soldato
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Unfortunately, there are quite a few issues that wouldn't present themselves with 'direct feedback' to the driver, specifically issues surrounding temperatures and various electronics.
However in response to the 'radio ban', i suspect teams will start including a lot more information on the steering wheel displays. Although this does add massive amounts of complexity, multiple menus and sub-menus and commands to access these menus, to what is already a complex and stressful environment which could cause 'information-overload'.
Ultimately time but more importantly lack of concentration on driving from having to run through multiple procedures to correct a fault instead of being given a single instruction by an engineer (in most scenarios) which in turn could potentially become a safety issue.
I can't say i'm overly thrilled by the radio ban, even though i can kind of see why it was introduced. However, i do believe certain aspects of it are utterly ridiculous and completely dodgy on the grounds of safety.
Don
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I actually am right on the fence on this. I can see what they are trying to do, but perhaps this should have been a new season thing, rather than rushed in so quickly. Perhaps the teams should get together (lol) and demand a minimum of 3 race weekends for rule changes (other than for direct safety measures).
I think its going to make some interesting racing over the next couple of races at least.. If nothing else, Bernie is a master at doing this kind of thing.
I think its going to make some interesting racing over the next couple of races at least.. If nothing else, Bernie is a master at doing this kind of thing.
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That is a good idea. However it would require a redesign of the whole steering wheel and on board electronics. Therefore it makes sense to be a change for next years rules.
The issue here isn't so much the ban itself, its the stupid ass retarded decision to impose it mid season with 1 weeks notice.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115920
The Large vs Small dash point is very valid. This ruling gives an advantage to those teams running the larger dash over the teams running the smaller one.
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Yup, some more concerns collected by JA:
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/...-f1-teams-cite-cost-and-reliability-concerns/
Most people on the paddock seem to welcome the idea of not having to 'coach' a driver, but there are definitely reservations about the current ruling which need addressing.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/...-f1-teams-cite-cost-and-reliability-concerns/
Most people on the paddock seem to welcome the idea of not having to 'coach' a driver, but there are definitely reservations about the current ruling which need addressing.