Motorsport Off Topic Thread

Skeeter said:
How many people in 2009 would have predicted Alonso leaving Ferrari without any more titles?

Tough times both behind and ahead for Ferrari. I'm not sure going there was a particularly clever move by Vettel.
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Jesus, when will people learn to be more cynical and frankly honest. Vettel leveraged a great car which won him titles into a ridiculous contract at Ferrari. He'll be 10's of millions better off by moving to Ferrari by the time he retires, yeah, I think it was a pretty clever move.

There are at any given time a half dozen really great drivers in F1, only one can win, the rest are just getting paid. Winning titles is dependent on the team being good. You can join a top team and win nothing and join the last option available to you on a shoe string budget and win a title, that is how the sport goes. 98% of drivers decisions are about securing the best pay day available at any given time like much of the rest of the world.

Sure if the choice was £30mil a year at Ferrari or £28mil at Mercedes you'd chose Mercedes based on the current car and chance to do well next year because frankly sponsorship for a champion is going to be worth more than sponsorship for a also ran. But given Vettel's choices he could have stayed at RBR, been beaten for a second year in a row and had worse offers on the table or moved to the highest paying team with his titles in fresh memory for the best contract he'd likely be able to get in the rest of his time in F1.

Vettel made the sensible move, Alonso was making a big move as well while he still had some negotiating power and to a team that was a bit desperate for change and a move for a big driver. Both made their choices for financial reasons, not title ones. Hamilton's choice to move would be primarily financial, sure he(and the other drivers) may have lost faith in their team or themselves potentially and feel like they need a move and they will HOPE the team they move to have a good car in the making, but the primary motive was securing the biggest contract they could.
 
Skeeter said:
So your saying racing drivers only do it for the money, and aren't interested in winning?
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All but one driver don't win the title every year, they also risk death, money is a big part of it. I didn't claim anywhere no one was interested in winning, though in reality winning comes with more money. The general competition of sport is that you win something at the end of it you get a prize, usually monetary. So even those interested in winning are interested in money.

Money makes the world go around, is this somehow a new concept to you?

If driver A is in a team with a car/engine combination that can't win, can't win next year either and you move to another team that almost certainly can't win next year and was worse than your car this year... but you're getting way more money, do you really think the primary motivation is winning and not money?

Vettel moved to Ferrari because Ferrari offered him the most money, he went from a more competitive to a less competitive car.... to win more?

While Hamilton moving from a failing Mclaren with a bunch of people who have since been replaced because they weren't good enough, to a team showing a commitment to improving and changing and putting the right people in place there was every reason to believe Merc would be significantly more competitive than Mclaren, who to that point had refused to make key required changes.

In Vettel's case the team that made RBR so successful is still mostly in place, the only really lacking part was the engine which should move forward and they have consistently built a better package than Ferrari over the past 5 years. Ferrari haven't made great cars and are in a rebuilding process really only now over the winter, it will take a long time to make a change.

His move is nothing like Hamilton's move, unsuccessful failing team to one showing loads of potential in the very near future, he's moving from an ultra successful team to one showing very little potential for the near future.

Vettel's move is entirely about money, as I think is Alonso's.
 
So Alonso is earning more at McLaren than Vettel is at Ferrari?

McLaren also offered more than Mercedes for Hamilton to stay, but he still left.

Button took a massive pay cut to stay at Brawn. He's taken another one to stay at McLaren.

Pay drivers give all their money away to drive F1 cars.

I wonder what Alonso was paid at Renault in 08 and 09 compared to what he was earning at McLaren in 07?

Your argument has many holes.
 
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Skeeter said:
So Alonso is earning more at McLaren than Vettel is at Ferrari?

McLaren also offered more than Mercedes for Hamilton to stay, but he still left.

Button took a massive pay cut to stay at Brawn. He's taken another one to stay at McLaren.

Pay drivers give all their money away to drive F1 cars.

I wonder what Alonso was paid at Renault in 08 and 09 compared to what he was earning at McLaren in 07?

Your argument has many holes.
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Okay in order.

I didn't say Alonso was making more at Mclaren than Vettel is getting at Ferrari.

There is effectively no evidence at all that Mclaren offered more than Mercedes, they all say lots of stupid things, constantly to try and make the other side look bad. Fact is that most people believe he's both paid more and is now able to sign more lucrative and a higher number of sponsorship deals with more work being able to be done for personal sponsors and less work for team sponsors. Long and short of it is Hamilton is making more at Merc, maybe significantly more.

Brawn had a contract with Honda, who weren't actually you know, running in 2009, so to say he took a pay cut to go to Brawn when he had no car to race in 2008 until he took the job with Brawn is completely ridiculous stance to take to begin with. Also there are MANY directly contradictory comments about Button and his Brawn contract, same goes for his Mclaren contract. Some sources say paid more, some say paid less. It actually seems like Honda paid off Button a decent portion of his remaining contract(for a team that weren't racing remember) and then he took the only offer he had at Brawn which wasn't a small contract anyway. Anyway a driver WITHOUT A SEAT can't take a pay cut, he took the highest paying seat on offer, anything else suggested is god damned ridiculous. He was going to make more in a Honda seat that year was he.... with Honda not racing... okay.

I wonder if Alonso took the chance to move to Renault knowing with a future intention to move to Ferrari. Mclaren may not have let Alonso out of his contract to go to Ferrari while they did let him out to go to Renault.

It's been reported that Alonso also had a $25mil deal at Renault when he left Mclaren but also seems to have taken a circa 6million cut in the second year due to the teams financial difficulties during a era of financial crisis. A year later he signed a much larger deal with Ferrari.

Mostly wages seem highly inaccurate in comparison because the actual numbers are rarely directly stated by either the driver or the team, every other article changes between £'s and $'s or simply leaving the currency they are talking about out completely.

But the majority of your points are wrong, Alonso's wage is questionable but leaving Mclaren indirectly led him to going to Ferrari.
 
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Skeeter said:
How many people in 2009 would have predicted Alonso leaving Ferrari without any more titles?
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I dont think anybody could've predicted that in 5 years, Alonso would not win a title with Ferrari.

For McLaren and Alonso's sake, lets hope the same does not happen with his new team.
 
drunkenmaster said:
I wonder if Alonso took the chance to move to Renault knowing with a future intention to move to Ferrari. Mclaren may not have let Alonso out of his contract to go to Ferrari while they did let him out to go to Renault.
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After the 2007 season, McLaren and Alonso both desperately wanted to part ways. The relationship had failed to such an extent that Alonso was not on speaking terms with McLaren management after the Hungary GP. Because of this, he asked the FIA to have an FIA person to be in his garage at all times, to ensure that McLaren do not sabotage his car and play fair.

McLaren would've let Alonso join any team, as long as the contract could be severed. Remember, at the time, they were more focused on playing happy families and they were confident that Hamilton could do the job (which he did by winning the title the following year).
 
sunama said:
I dont think anybody could've predicted that in 5 years, Alonso would not win a title with Ferrari.

For McLaren and Alonso's sake, lets hope the same does not happen with his new team.
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Given the 2009 Ferrari was pretty damn awful and all of the key staff had left a few years prior, the start of a brand new set of regulations in 2009 was always going to be bad news for them.

Over the course of history Ferrari tend to do well in spurts, then sod all for a decade. They'll probably be back at the front in another 3 or 4 years.
 
sunama said:
Because of this, he asked the FIA to have an FIA person to be in his garage at all times, to ensure that McLaren do not sabotage his car and play fair.
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This was only for the final race of the season in Brazil, and was not at Alonso's request, the FIA instigated it themselves. The FIA were in both McLaren garages.
 
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Anyone fancy Eau Rouge in the snow? :p

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I'd watch that :D

Some snowmobile manufacturer could do a Merc' and invite all the drivers to test one model of snowmobile for a race. Kimi to win, given his history.
 
New year, new colours according to reports.

At least two top teams will enter the 2015 season with fundamentally different colour schemes, it has emerged.

Spain's El Mundo Deportivo reports that new reigning champions Mercedes intend to switch from silver to a striking mirror-like chrome paint-job this year.

The report said the special chrome paint for the 2015 livery is called 'Kromo', and will also be supplied to wheel supplier OZ for the title-defending W06 raced by world champion Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg.

The same Spanish sports newspaper reports that with Mercedes stepping up its iconic silver look, Woking based McLaren is tipped for a complete livery U-turn in 2015.

McLaren turned silver in 1997, at the height of its works collaboration with Mercedes, but now the famous British team is kicking off its new era with Honda.

El Mundo Deportivo reported: "Honda does not want (McLaren) to continue with silver because it is a colour immediately associated with Mercedes and the 'Silver Arrows'.

"There are rumours the (2015) car could be orange, McLaren's traditional colour, for testing. But it could also be white, in a double-tribute: to Honda and also because McLaren's first F1 car was that colour" in 1966.

"The final choice could depend largely on whether McLaren has a major sponsor in 2015 or not," the report added.
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www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-mclaren-to-change-colours-in-2015-report/

An orange test car would be win, even if it's highly unlikely it will make it to the grid in Melbourne in that colour.
 
Did anyone else see this? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/30553822

So as this new complicated, highly researched technology is too expensive we should go back to the old cheaper technology? Rather than work with the new stuff and refine it over time. (Which I guess will make it cheaper. Surely its like everything else? Technology starts off expensive and then gets cheaper?) They wanted newer, more efficient, relevant engines and now they are talking of going back? Seems like madness!!! Would they be having this conversation if the grid was closer together?
 
KiNgPiN83 said:
Did anyone else see this? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/30553822

So as this new complicated, highly researched technology is too expensive we should go back to the old cheaper technology? Rather than work with the new stuff and refine it over time. (Which I guess will make it cheaper. Surely its like everything else? Technology starts off expensive and then gets cheaper?) They wanted newer, more efficient, relevant engines and now they are talking of going back? Seems like madness!!! Would they be having this conversation if the grid was closer together?
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I think the move to the newer engines was to try and help make f1 tech more relevant again and attract manufacturer interest. If it fails to do that, and costs more, then perhaps a move back to a more simple way would work?
 
Malt_Vinegar said:
I think the move to the newer engines was to try and help make f1 tech more relevant again and attract manufacturer interest. If it fails to do that, and costs more, then perhaps a move back to a more simple way would work?
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They must've realised they were going to be more expensive though? The research must have cost the manufacturers loads and they will obviously want to get it back. Plus Mercedes and Renault wanted the change didn't they?! Its all very confusing and doesn't really help the image they portray to the fans.

I guess it depends whether it would be an old V8/V10 or a new one?
 
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