Motorsport Off Topic Thread

Spunkey said:
Mateschitz and Horner completely brought this situation on themselves with their stupid antics of publicly shaming Renault. Fair enough, the engine wasn't up to the level needed but to spout that vitriol isn't going to make any other engine supplier want to work with them.

They made their bed.
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I disagree, but unfortunately we are lacking information about who had discussions with who, and the timing of things, to be able to confirm what actually happened.

I'm still of the opinion that the Red Bull board would not have approved the early termination of the Renault contract without firm knowledge of having an alternative in place.
 
Would be surprised if Renault wanted to work with them, assuming Renault buy out lotus.
RBR have shot themselfs in the feet, with being so vocal about Renault.

I doubt we would lose the team, they would get brought out and then a deal would be done.
However I still expect to see them next year as rbr, after some last minute negotiations.
 
Skeeter said:
So it looks like RBR are being forced out of the sport.

Renault don't want to supply anyone other than their own team.
Mercedes has been blocked by Daimler.
Ferrari will only supply STR, a supply to RBR has been blocked by Ferrari SpA bosses.
A Honda deal is being blocked by McLaren.

Sad times for F1 ahead.
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This is great news imo

They've been cry babies the last two years, bitched and moaned about everything. Be glad to see the back of them
 
Skeeter said:
F1 having only 9 teams, and specific manufacturers being able to not only define the rules to suit themselves, but also pick and chose who is allowed to be competitive against them is 'great news'?

Ok...
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Maybe it will take something like this to shake it all up and get things moving in the right direction?
 
Skeeter said:
I disagree, but unfortunately we are lacking information about who had discussions with who, and the timing of things, to be able to confirm what actually happened.

I'm still of the opinion that the Red Bull board would not have approved the early termination of the Renault contract without firm knowledge of having an alternative in place.
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Adam Cooper's piece over on Motorsport.com sheds a little more light onto things.
 
KiNgPiN83 said:
Maybe it will take something like this to shake it all up and get things moving in the right direction?
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Unfortunately the way F1 is run doesn't allow anything to 'move in the right direction'.

F1 is in the trouble it is now because of how its run. What needs shaking up is the governance of the sport, and that isn't going to happen any time soon (people paid a lot of money to get their fingers in the pie).
 
JRS said:
Adam Cooper's piece over on Motorsport.com sheds a little more light onto things.
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Thanks for that. It shows that contrary to popular belief, RBR didn't just cancel their Renault deal on a whim and then arrogantly expect to just walk up to another manufacturer and be handed an engine. Its been a long complicated saga of timing and assumed deals and backtracking. The current situation is the result of actions by basically everyone involved, rather than 'all RBRs doing' as people suggest.

Bottom line, if RBR leave, it will be because nobody who makes engines wants to race against them. And thats wrong, in my eyes.
 
I guess this is the problem when you have works teams... Rather than teams trying to buy the best engine to be most competitive you have the works teams choosing who they want as their 'rivals'. Which would explain Mercedes sudden urge to give Manor engines! :o Which would also explain Bernie's hatred of Manor and his urge to get rid of them.. Haha!
 
Skeeter said:
I disagree, but unfortunately we are lacking information about who had discussions with who, and the timing of things, to be able to confirm what actually happened.

I'm still of the opinion that the Red Bull board would not have approved the early termination of the Renault contract without firm knowledge of having an alternative in place.
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I'm inclined to agree. A bad engine is always going to beat no engine.
 
JRS said:
But what's the alternative right now? You can't force a manufacturer to sell them engines.
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Mateschitz to buy F1 and kick out all manufacturers that don't want to work with them :)

As bad as it would be for all RBR and SBR drivers/ staff for Mateschitz to withdraw the teams from F1 I think that's what they should do if nobody wants to sell them competitive engines cos they're scared of being beaten by RBR. They have some of the best drivers on the grid who shouldn't be driving in mid field, same goes for McLaren realy but they have a "plan".
They're not there to race in mid field like Sauber/ Force India.

As someone else said earlier in the thread, engine manufacturers should sell X amount of licences to FIA and then other teams would "buy" engines of FIA on first come first served basis on any available engine licence.
 
JRS said:
But what's the alternative right now? You can't force a manufacturer to sell them engines.
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We've discussed this a few times and in reality, there isn't one.

The issue comes down to how F1 is managed and run and regulated, and preventing situations like this would require some wide sweeping changes in that area. I've proposed a few ideas, and people have rightfully pointed out holes in them.

Basically, F1 is screwed, RBR are screwed, and the FIA can do nothing about it because they sold the rights to run the sport to a few competitors who are now moulding it to suit their own needs and nobody elses.
 
The_Abyss said:
In summary, Mercedes beat up RBR comprehensively in the F1 political race, whether they intended to or not.
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It shows how complex this sport (business) is. Stakes here and stakes there, politics, you can't have our engine in case you decide to copy it and then improve it with VAG and then beat us with their version. A tie up would sell x amount of cars to the younger generation which is why Mercedes are even back in F1. Supplying an engine isn't just supplying an engine its arguably the marketing that is more important to the supplier etc etc.
 
Skeeter said:
Thanks for that. It shows that contrary to popular belief, RBR didn't just cancel their Renault deal on a whim and then arrogantly expect to just walk up to another manufacturer and be handed an engine. Its been a long complicated saga of timing and assumed deals and backtracking. The current situation is the result of actions by basically everyone involved, rather than 'all RBRs doing' as people suggest.
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I understand what you're saying but that article still paints Red Bulls as the victims in all of this which, if anything, is the other extreme viewpoint.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle but frankly, Red Bull shouldn't have officially terminated their contract with Renault before they had a contract with Mercedes. The article suggests they had no choice and that the former had to come before the latter when, in reality, they could easily have drawn up a contract with Mercedes which was contingent on all ties with Renault being severed by the end of the year.
 
But as the article points out, they couldn't get a contract with Mercedes while still in one with Renault. If they could have drawn up even a notional one they would have.

I'm willing to bet that the board were confident in the Mercedes deal before cancelling the Renault one, and hadn't even considered that both Honda and Ferrari would be blocked from supplying them. Basically no board member with half a brain would cancel an engine supply without faith in an alternative. It's a risk they simply wouldn't have taken. I imagine there would have been a buyout fee to pay to Renault of at least the cost of 1 year of engines, so ~$20m. Can you see them signing that off based on someone saying "yeah, I had a chat with Toto over lunch, were good".
 
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