Motorsport Off Topic Thread

Stumble Bum said:
How is £400k a big overspend when they spend hundreds of millions every year to race?
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It's an overspend, 400k is not a small amount of money.

It's a considerable amount given the rules and the budget constraints of the sport.

I also find it laughable that they claimed to be coming in 3 million under... In what world would they leave that on the table when fighting for a championship?!

Red Bull got it wrong, however you try to spin it, they had an obligation to be whiter than white, they were not, regardless of the reasons. They were the only one found to be in such a heinous breach, and have suffered the consequences.

They have been allowed to keep their illicit gained advantage affected championships, so have to pay a heavy price going forward.

The precedent has been set, fall foul of the rules and you will suffer going forward.
 
I don’t understand how a financial penalty can ever be a penalty for failure to adhere to a budget cap :confused:

Yes, they’ve also had a wind tunnel time reduction but receiving a fine when you’ve already overspent is just silly. I’m not sure what punishment I’d have issued but a fine wouldn’t be part of it.

Removal of their 2021 constructors points and prize money may have been extreme (and I wouldn’t have liked to see something that extreme) but it would definitely have stopped anyone trying similar in future. The McLaren spy gate fine was as much Mosley’s hatred of Ron Dennis than anything but at least they set a precedent. This is the sport that will throw you out of qualifying for failing to extract a 1ltr sample of fuel or having a 0.2mm gap in your DRS slot gap.

Disappointingly, the full forensic accounting review of submissions isn’t coming until next year iirc, so the cynic may say RB knowingly went over knowing the FIA wouldn’t go all-in on the punishment without conclusive proof and they’d gamble on maintaining the gains in subsequent seasons.

I personally find it staggering that they’d introduce a cost cap WITHOUT forensic accounting mind but there we go.
 
englishpremier said:
but I wonder if the uproar is more due to the fans' distrust of the FIA than rather than the overspend.
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It’s possibly that, but it’s most likely because of the minor point that RB only won last year by Masi twisting the rules, and now it turns out they overspent as well, and it’s literally impossible to quantify the advantage they’ve gotten because of it whilst everyone is sat on their sofa watching Max do 360s in the middle of the race and still win easily.

Oh, it’s also probably because Horner, Marko and Max are hands down the most unlikeable group of people we’ve ever seen in F1, ever :p Is Horner still asking for an apology from the other teams? Lol..
 
Malt_Vinegar said:
Does anyone know if RB have to pay for the fine out of their current or next year's spending cap budget?
That would just be exceptionally funny :D
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No, it’s just a fine. Which is ridiculous really, they should be fined, AND have the same amount reduced from next years budget. A simple fine isn’t a penalty at all to a team like Red Bull. Christian probably offered the company credit card at the final meeting where they learned of the fine.
 
MissChief said:
No, it’s just a fine. Which is ridiculous really, they should be fined, AND have the same amount reduced from next years budget. A simple fine isn’t a penalty at all to a team like Red Bull. Christian probably offered the company credit card at the final meeting where they learned of the fine.
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It's an interesting point really, if you operate a team that does not have a different budget (parent company) to take the fine from, does that mean you have to pay out of the next year budget...

Hmm, I think they should pay out of the next 2 years budgets cap amounts.
 
englishpremier said:
I wonder if the uproar is more due to the fans' distrust of the FIA than rather than the overspend.
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Personally, it’s about having the sport I’ve watched for 30 years actually be a sport rather than entertainment. But the FIA seem to be happy to not govern F1 as a sport and instead erode their own power to punish wrongdoing in any form not just this budget cap.
 
Although Horner keeps saying they'd talked to the FIA throughout the process, he also admitted in the interview yesterday RB chose not to join the dry run of the budget cap in 2020, whereas most other teams did.

This articles suggests it would be quite thorough and allow teams to iron out potential breaches, why wouldnt RB do that ?

www.racefans.net

How F1's budget cap "dry run" will work in 2020

While F1's budget cap won't arrive until 2021, a "dry run" is planned for next year. Dieter Rencken reveals how it will work.
www.racefans.net www.racefans.net
 
Mesai said:
£500k wouldn't have made Bottas a better driver, and it wouldn't have changed Merc's 2022 design because they thought it was the best choice (until it hit an actual track).
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Didn't Mercedes say a while ago that a replacement improved floor would cost them £300,000 but they couldn't do it because of the cost cap?
 
Feek said:
Didn't Mercedes say a while ago that a replacement improved floor would cost them £300,000 but they couldn't do it because of the cost cap?
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They used total of 11 engines (pretty much double what's allowed before getting grid penalties) last season compared to 8 that most of other teams did. Guess that's where most of their "extra" budget went and they couldn't afford to spent money on other things. Quick google says that each engine is $10.5m (guess this includes turbo etc) but even if it was $5m for each extra ICE that's $15m more compared to rest of the field. They clearly thought spending money on new engines was worth more than spending that money on other parts of their car.
 
Engine costs are dealt with by a different set of regulations aren't they?

Sure I remember reading they're not included in the standard cost cap
 
Kenai said:
Engine costs are dealt with by a different set of regulations aren't they?

Sure I remember reading they're not included in the standard cost cap
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To be honest I'm not sure but would be ridiculous not to include any parts over what's allowed to be excluded from the budget cap.

Edit: Looks like you're right. That just makes no sense. So basically Merc spent millions (~$30m more if that $10.5m per engine is right) more on engines that everyone else and won the championship. What's the point of cost cap if teams can just take small grid penalty that helps them win the championship.
 
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bayo000 said:
To be honest I'm not sure but would be ridiculous not to include any parts over what's allowed to be excluded from the budget cap.
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It's not just extra engines that's excluded, I don't think engine costs are included at all, something to do with being too difficult to legislate between who builds their own vs teams that buy in.
 
englishpremier said:
All this furry and 'frothing at the mouth' is hilarious. Surely some of you must have an idea of how accounting works. It is seldom black and white. Despite SSAP and GAAP, so many things are open to interpretation and can be dealt with in accounts in numerous different ways. This is why notes and statements are usually included along with accounts. It's also why accounting issues with authorities tend to be more of a negotiation.
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9 other teams managed fine. RB pushed the limits like they do on everything (part of the game I get that) they got caught out then moan about it like it wasn't their fault and that's what rubs people the wrong way with this team.
 
Feek said:
Didn't Mercedes say a while ago that a replacement improved floor would cost them £300,000 but they couldn't do it because of the cost cap?
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But how much were mercedes under the cost cap? If they were a million under then they potentially would have won on outright pace, and weren't aggressive another with their accounting
 
englishpremier said:
All this furry and 'frothing at the mouth' is hilarious.

Many people dislike Red Bull which is fair enough, after all their drinks are terrible ;) but I wonder if the uproar is more due to the fans' distrust of the FIA than rather than the overspend.
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Remember when everyone called for Masi's head last year only to quickly realise that he whilst he was an issue it is the FIA that are procedurally indept.
 
Kenai said:
It's not just extra engines that's excluded, I don't think engine costs are included at all, something to do with being too difficult to legislate between who builds their own vs teams that buy in.
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I can apricate that but what's the point of having a cap if the big teams can still spent money on new engines as they wish. Take a grid penalty which they can easily recover from, if taken at track that suits them, then benefit from new power unit for next few races.

Think I'm going to stop looking into rules and go back to watching F1 just to see fast cars going round and fall asleep on the sofa. :)
 
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