Motorsport Off Topic Thread
- Thread starter Shimmy
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I was not the one who used the language, post #16361 seems to be comparing Horner, and a revolting suggestion at that. Would the OP like to clarify?
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Associate
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Ya'll just haters. Where's your early 2000's lads mag centrefolds ? exactly!
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No, I think you missed mine. It's got nothing to do with nationality, or who their son is or what their son has accomplished. Forgetting someone's morally ambiguous past is vastly different to forgetting someone's violent criminal past.
Caporegime
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Gary Glitter was successful and he was British but his past wasn't forgotten.
Don
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Alex Albon's mum is not exactly lauded, and he's half British 
Regardless of my opinions on Horner or Red Bull as a team overall - An accusation of "inappropriate and controlling behaviour" is so vague that I am struggling to get worked up over this whole thing. Until the detail and context of the allegation has been heard, and a counter argument heard, everything else is just noise.
For context...
I was accused of bullying and harassment in 2012 by an indirect colleague (same building, completely unrelated departments) over how I embarrassed and emasculated him, and made him feel forced into an activity he did not wish to partake in.
The incident, in full:
"Lopez! Perfect, a big strong man, exactly what we need. Can you help bring in this stationery order for us if you've got time?"
"Yeah no worries Mrs Other Department Manager, I'll do it now. What's the matter Mr Other Department Subordinate? Arms not feeling up to it today?"
END TRANSMISSION.
It doesn't always take much to end up in a situation that gets taken very seriously - particularly as this complaint seems to have been filed with Red Bull in Austria, where workers are heavily protected by the Work's Council and almost any hint of wrongdoing is investigated thoroughly.
For context...
I was accused of bullying and harassment in 2012 by an indirect colleague (same building, completely unrelated departments) over how I embarrassed and emasculated him, and made him feel forced into an activity he did not wish to partake in.
The incident, in full:
"Lopez! Perfect, a big strong man, exactly what we need. Can you help bring in this stationery order for us if you've got time?"
"Yeah no worries Mrs Other Department Manager, I'll do it now. What's the matter Mr Other Department Subordinate? Arms not feeling up to it today?"
END TRANSMISSION.
It doesn't always take much to end up in a situation that gets taken very seriously - particularly as this complaint seems to have been filed with Red Bull in Austria, where workers are heavily protected by the Work's Council and almost any hint of wrongdoing is investigated thoroughly.
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Soldato
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Playing Devil's advocate, were you the CEO of a very public facing company and did the company you worked for hire an external barrister to investigate? I can’t see how this ends any other way than with Red Bull (drinks company) thanking Horner for his loyal 20 years of service with the public message being he is going to concentrate on his family life and other ventures.
My personal opinion of him is split, when representing RBR I find him to be smug, rude, conniving, aggressive and generally unpleasant. These are all traits I loathe in my own life. However when he’s getting interviewed on a podcast or similar I find him engaging, articulate and gives great insight into racing in general.
Wow someone's had their weetabix this morning.
For that kind of accusation, if any evidence of is indeed found to be true, I doubt if he's acted any different to many other F1 team principles up and down the pit lane, or a driver.
What will tip the balance, and note that there has been a power struggle between RB UK and RB headquarters in Austria recently and Horner has been trying to rid the UK of Marco because he is more of a liability, but Marco has clout within RB in Austria, that it is considered the whole affair has blighted RB's reputation as a product.
But then they'd be dumb to get rid of one of the most successful Team Principles of our time over a wim.
Look at the reputation of Ron Dennis etc for an example and Marco himself has done far worse damage to RB, only he has 'friends' in higher places.
For that kind of accusation, if any evidence of is indeed found to be true, I doubt if he's acted any different to many other F1 team principles up and down the pit lane, or a driver.
What will tip the balance, and note that there has been a power struggle between RB UK and RB headquarters in Austria recently and Horner has been trying to rid the UK of Marco because he is more of a liability, but Marco has clout within RB in Austria, that it is considered the whole affair has blighted RB's reputation as a product.
But then they'd be dumb to get rid of one of the most successful Team Principles of our time over a wim.
Look at the reputation of Ron Dennis etc for an example and Marco himself has done far worse damage to RB, only he has 'friends' in higher places.
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Soldato
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Because he (may have) acted the same as many other team principles, does this mean it's any less serious? Bullying/controlling behaviour has no place in any workplace.
If it came out that Toto or Zak had behaved similarly I would be disappointed but I would be expecting the same outcome
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That was the original plan but they opted for the NASCAR race instead after learning about the cost and needing to sign up for 10 years. It isn't happening.
I think it entirely depends on the nature of the complaint. Corporate bullying and generally crap behaviour would likely just see a slap on the wrist. If the allegation is sexual in nature, he'll be gone in the blink of an eye.
Don
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The reality is that we have no idea what the allegations are. I expect the vague nature of the wording is quite careful for a reason. Maybe it will be announced on Friday after the hearing, but I still think there is a chance he stays, and we hear nothing more of it other than media speculation.. Which, is fine, if he has done nothing to actually warrant the sack, then he rightly stays.
I may not like the guy, but not liking someone is not really grounds for him to lose his job
Under that sort of arrangement, I expect I would have been fired from every job I have ever had!
I may not like the guy, but not liking someone is not really grounds for him to lose his job
Under that sort of arrangement, I expect I would have been fired from every job I have ever had!
Caporegime
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What should happen is that horner steps down temporary while this gets sorted. Surely him being in the garage and in the media doing interviews etc while this alligation is under investigation is not a good look for red bull right?The reality is that we have no idea what the allegations are. I expect the vague nature of the wording is quite careful for a reason. Maybe it will be announced on Friday after the hearing, but I still think there is a chance he stays, and we hear nothing more of it other than media speculation.. Which, is fine, if he has done nothing to actually warrant the sack, then he rightly stays.
I may not like the guy, but not liking someone is not really grounds for him to lose his job
Under that sort of arrangement, I expect I would have been fired from every job I have ever had!
I know you are innocent until proven guilty but he should at least step out of the limelight?
My O/H works in HR. If there's a safeguarding issue then suspension is the immediate response. For something along the lines of management style, unless someone has been violent or aggressive it's usually just an investigation followed by what can be done better kiss & make up, heads banged together etc.
So to me it's odd, becasue reading between the lines it's the latter given no suspension. But it'd be an internal HR issue not a legal issue (unless this person is a now ex-employee), and it wouldn't be targeted at the individual as much as it would be RBR and their HR. They could hold CH internally responsible and fire him, but in the case of just upsetting a colleague for being a horrible boss they likely wouldn't. So that brings me back to it being something more inappropriate. We shall see, but the cookie-cutter claims of this season being the same as the last have gone out the window for now!
Well it depends upon what it is he has alleged to have done isn't it.Because he (may have) acted the same as many other team principles, does this mean it's any less serious? Bullying/controlling behaviour has no place in any workplace.
If it came out that Toto or Zak had behaved similarly I would be disappointed but I would be expecting the same outcome
Toto is well known for banging his desk, breaking headphones and being quite aggressive and forceful and I don't doubt worse takes place behind the scenes. Quite easily any TP's behaviour could be interoperated as controlling because it is their job.
But you've missed the point I was raising about the dynamics that's going on within RB anyway..
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Safeguarding doesn't seem to be required as no-one is at risk. If there were then quite rightly he'd be suspended, or taken leave of absence himself.
Don't forget there will be those watching this and making sure all is done in the correct manner and protocols to be adhered to are set down..
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