Motorsport Off Topic Thread
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
Commissario
1 minute 23 seconds.As if by magic, they just uploaded it
So were one team previously applying equal pressure but then releasing one side a little earlier than the other? And has one team suddenly gone backwards in performance with one of the drivers regularly on the wireless saying the car isn't turning very well?
Don
Clearly - too many coincidences like Max's rear brake being destroyed and causing a retirement at the Melbourne GPC’mon guys. It’s obvious RB were cheating using this asymmetric braking system and they’ve been found out. Where’s the drama gone in these forums? Honestly
Soldato
But Christian Horner has said it's not true and he's not lied about anything so far this season!
(This post is sponsored by Coco Pops, your personal assistant approved cereal)
The braking tech raises further questions, is this why Max had a habit of not being able to maintain a stable braking line while off the racing line when racing other drivers because the balance isn't there?
(This post is sponsored by Coco Pops, your personal assistant approved cereal)
The braking tech raises further questions, is this why Max had a habit of not being able to maintain a stable braking line while off the racing line when racing other drivers because the balance isn't there?
Soldato
As soon as I realised what the supposed braking system was my first thought was Max's retirement from the Aussie GP. I seem to remember the fire being on one side of the rear of the car? Not brakes on both sides? Unless RB have been using this and the FIA found out and cut them a deal like they did with Ferrari and the engine a few years ago, I thought the story in the paddock was no-one had been using it. But then if that's true why bring something added to the 2026 rules forward and impose it now? Why block/ban something if there's no need to?Clearly - too many coincidences like Max's rear brake being destroyed and causing a retirement at the Melbourne GP
Soldato
Sargeant's been given the boot. Colapinto to race for Williams for the rest of the season.
Finally. Good move.
Finally. Good move.
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Soldato
And has this been the first time a F1 car has had a single brake on fire? I suggest you do a little more research before posting:
Emilia Romagna GP: Fernando Alonso's front left brake catches on fire
Fernando Alonso left the pits to find his left brake catching fire but it cooled down once he returned to track.
2022 Canadian GP FP1: Paper towel causes brake fire on Ocon’s Alpine
Esteban Ocon was forced back into the pits early on in first practice in Montreal with overheated brakes after a paper towel got lodged in his front right wheel.
www.formula1.com
Mick Schumacher's rear brake catches fire
Mick Schumacher's rear brake caught fire in P3, with his Haas mechanics having to put it out the flames in the pitlane at the Circuit de Catalunya.
www.skysports.com
Lol, no conspiracy but of course there will be those who must make things up because they've 'read it somewhere'.
No cars, repeat, no cars have been using this trick braking system as stated by the FIA.The last time anything like this was used was in the 1998 Mclaren with their third pedal system.
The reason this has been brought forward is because 'some' of the teams were investigating whether they could legally run the system.
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Soldato
Fair play to williams something had to be done even if colapinto is terrible still no great loss
Soldato
Yeah, so long as he smashes up the car less often that Sargeant did then Williams are quids-in.
Don
No I don't believe it's a conspiracy hence the smiley at the end of my post
The well known 100% honest and transparent FIA? For all we know there's been a secret NDA agreement with Red Bull to not reveal they were using it and the details (in the same way we still don't know how Ferrari were cheating the fuel sensor or whatever the other year)
Caporegime
Albon has been as bad as Sargeant on that front, but I'm not sure swapping him for a completely inexperienced rookie is likely to help. Good for Colapinto but seems like a hiding to nothing, even if he impresses there is no seat for him next year.
Good luck to Logan. He hasn't lived up to his promise but I still think he's better than Williams have made him look.
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Soldato
Where did I say it was the first time an F1 car has had a brake fire? I simply said that I thought at the time it seemed weird to me. Your Alonso video is from the 2024 Emilia Romagna GP so it isn't impossible that Aston Martin were trying something seeing as its the 2024 season that the rules have been updated in this respect. The second one for Ocon was a paper towel causing the brake fire. I'm pretty sure that, without researching this, that Verstappen's Aussie GP retirement wasn't due to a paper towel.And has this been the first time a F1 car has had a single brake on fire? I suggest you do a little more research before posting:
Emilia Romagna GP: Fernando Alonso's front left brake catches on fire
Fernando Alonso left the pits to find his left brake catching fire but it cooled down once he returned to track.www.skysports.com
2022 Canadian GP FP1: Paper towel causes brake fire on Ocon’s Alpine
Esteban Ocon was forced back into the pits early on in first practice in Montreal with overheated brakes after a paper towel got lodged in his front right wheel.I guess they were all using this, non existent, braking system?Mick Schumacher's rear brake catches fire
Mick Schumacher's rear brake caught fire in P3, with his Haas mechanics having to put it out the flames in the pitlane at the Circuit de Catalunya.www.skysports.com
Lol, no conspiracy but of course there will be those who must make things up because they've 'read it somewhere'.
No cars, repeat, no cars have been using this trick braking system as stated by the FIA.The last time anything like this was used was in the 1998 Mclaren with their third pedal system.
The reason this has been brought forward is because 'some' of the teams were investigating whether they could legally run the system.
Perhaps I should have expanded on my post to say that for a team at the top of their game with the ability to build fast yet reliable cars, for the reigning World Champion to have to retire from the 3rd race of the year, having won the first two convincingly, was quite strange. I didn't think much more of it at the time; perhaps they went a bit too far on the performance envelope and sacrified too much cooling.
Soldato
Yes it is more than likely it was just a cooling issue than anything as no teams have been running this trick braking system this season.
FIA denies that any teams used asymmetrical brakes in 2024 - F1technical.net
www.f1technical.net
The directive also came in at the end of July, the performance fallout of the Red Bull car occurred well before then..
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Soldato
Seriously? You couldn't make it up, oh you just did.
Think about it...
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Don
Lighten up... I'm not for a second suggesting that's a serious outcome, but equally I'm not taking anything the FIA come out with as "the definite truth" based on their past dealings
Soldato
I'm very fine thank you and we'll just beg to differ. But there is no motivation for the FIA to lie in this case, they obviously felt that these conspiracy theories were so far from the truth they had to make an statement.
Could we maybe seeing Red Bull seeing the effect of the sliding scale amount of Wind Tunnel/CFD computer time due to where you finish in the championship?
Could be a better explanation perhaps? Mixed with the team tension, Newey leaving and what not thrown in.
www.formula1.com
When they introduced the cost cap in 2021, Red Bull finished 2nd so only got 92.5% of the allowed testing. This was then dramatically reduced from 2022 onwards, so winning in 2022 and 2023 meant they only got 70% of allowed time.
In contrast, Mclaren finished 4th in 2021 so got 97.5%, 5th in 2022 got them 90% and 4th in 2023 got them 85%.
More time to play and learn overall.
Or there could be super top secret/NDA/Netflix drama style cheating some people want. Who knows.
Could be a better explanation perhaps? Mixed with the team tension, Newey leaving and what not thrown in.
How F1's new sliding scale aero testing rules work – and what impact they will have on racing | Formula 1®
History will be made next season, when Formula 1 introduces a radical new sliding scale for aerodynamic testing based on a team’s success on track.
www.formula1.com
When they introduced the cost cap in 2021, Red Bull finished 2nd so only got 92.5% of the allowed testing. This was then dramatically reduced from 2022 onwards, so winning in 2022 and 2023 meant they only got 70% of allowed time.
In contrast, Mclaren finished 4th in 2021 so got 97.5%, 5th in 2022 got them 90% and 4th in 2023 got them 85%.
More time to play and learn overall.
Or there could be super top secret/NDA/Netflix drama style cheating some people want. Who knows.
Wheels might brake with the same force, which is a symmetrical braking effect, but it doesn’t mean that each wheel is exerting the same load/force. Braking into a corner will see one side heat up more.
It’s not like tyres wear evenly, which is often commented on during a race.
Soldato
Quite possibly, however it could just be equally true that this car is at the limit of where it can progress to and has hit a wall and everyone else has simply caught up and improved. The upgrades they've brought don't seem to be working either, in fact they seem to have made the car worse. Plus Red Bull appear to be making errors with the car's setup as shown in last weekend's race where the car was running a Monaco style rear wing of maximum downforce.Could we maybe seeing Red Bull seeing the effect of the sliding scale amount of Wind Tunnel/CFD computer time due to where you finish in the championship?
Could be a better explanation perhaps? Mixed with the team tension, Newey leaving and what not thrown in.
How F1's new sliding scale aero testing rules work – and what impact they will have on racing | Formula 1®
History will be made next season, when Formula 1 introduces a radical new sliding scale for aerodynamic testing based on a team’s success on track.
When they introduced the cost cap in 2021, Red Bull finished 2nd so only got 92.5% of the allowed testing. This was then dramatically reduced from 2022 onwards, so winning in 2022 and 2023 meant they only got 70% of allowed time.
In contrast, Mclaren finished 4th in 2021 so got 97.5%, 5th in 2022 got them 90% and 4th in 2023 got them 85%.
More time to play and learn overall.
Or there could be super top secret/NDA/Netflix drama style cheating some people want. Who knows.
Mark Hughes: The Red Bull weaknesses McLaren exploited
What was behind Lando Norris's demolition of Max Verstappen in the Dutch GP? Was it McLaren's upgrade and its more efficient rear wing? The MCL38's wider set-up sweet spot? Or Red Bull being spooked by McLaren and loading its car up with wing? A bit of all three, turns out - as Mark Hughes explains
www.the-race.com
It would seem that the current Red Bull has a very narrow setup sweet spot.
Mark Hughes has some interesting things to say as he is stating that the Red Bull hasn't lost any pace at all, just that other teams have vastly improved.
MPH: 'Claims surrounding Red Bull's performance drop are total fantasy'
Reports of an asymmetric braking system — which has now been made illegal — fuelled rumours about Red Bull's sudden decrease in form. But, as Mark Hughes writes, the claims made are unsubstantiated
www.motorsportmagazine.com
The Merc/Lewis fans were adamant that the penalty wasn’t meaningful, but given how little testing they’re allowed, any decrease is huge. No amount of money can make up for it.Could we maybe seeing Red Bull seeing the effect of the sliding scale amount of Wind Tunnel/CFD computer time due to where you finish in the championship?
Could be a better explanation perhaps? Mixed with the team tension, Newey leaving and what not thrown in.
How F1's new sliding scale aero testing rules work – and what impact they will have on racing | Formula 1®
History will be made next season, when Formula 1 introduces a radical new sliding scale for aerodynamic testing based on a team’s success on track.
When they introduced the cost cap in 2021, Red Bull finished 2nd so only got 92.5% of the allowed testing. This was then dramatically reduced from 2022 onwards, so winning in 2022 and 2023 meant they only got 70% of allowed time.
In contrast, Mclaren finished 4th in 2021 so got 97.5%, 5th in 2022 got them 90% and 4th in 2023 got them 85%.
More time to play and learn overall.
Or there could be super top secret/NDA/Netflix drama style cheating some people want. Who knows.
Merc likely suffered the same from being so successful in the previous era; losing a ton of testing time to prove their zero pod thing.