Soldato
- Joined
- 20 Oct 2002
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- 3,264
Muslims, Pork, forced selling of
- Thread starter seaviewuk
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Soldato
Wild assumption? No. If you were to compare such religions you would have backed it up with proper research. As you realise Sikhism is the youngest mainstream religion take into consideration the population involved. My point was that Christianity was being practised in a non christian dominated country. There are more Hindus in India than muslims, sikhs and christians put together, does that make it a better religion? Nope.
As for your opinion on religion fair enough but to insult others shows grand immaturity on your part.
Soldato
- Joined
- 20 Oct 2002
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/me sighs, takes a deep breath and tries to explain.
The original statement was sarcasm ..... A FUDGIN JOKE OK.
I had considered adding a smiley or a small disclaimer at the bottom but for some stupid reason i thought you might be intelligent enough to see it was a joke.
FYI i am not a christian and i do not feel any religion is better than any other.
The original statement was sarcasm ..... A FUDGIN JOKE OK.
I had considered adding a smiley or a small disclaimer at the bottom but for some stupid reason i thought you might be intelligent enough to see it was a joke.
FYI i am not a christian and i do not feel any religion is better than any other.
Soldato
My bad, ill get my coat.
I was contemplating whether it was sarcastic or not, wasnt sure so that was the reason for the excuse me.
I was contemplating whether it was sarcastic or not, wasnt sure so that was the reason for the excuse me.
Soldato
- Joined
- 20 Oct 2002
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Np dude, im rarely serious at the best of times 
Next thing to gouge out eyes over ?!?
Next thing to gouge out eyes over ?!?
memoryex
M
memoryex
k lets look at this from a different angle. People in england/wales are allowed to say "im not working on a sunday because of my religion" why is this any different? Someone who is disabled is told they have to wash the windows on the bosses car, only thing is hes in a wheelchair. Is this permissible? Peoples religious beliefs and/or disabilities must be taken into account whenever an employer wishes to ask employees to do something else or take up other duties. I personally think its a stupid restriction but at the end of the day what do i know? I am however disabled and know what its like to be discriminated against. I realise that the employer wont like this BUT if we did what employers wanted all of the time we would still have 6 year olds going up chimneys and debtors going to prison. Its the law and that is that. You dont have to like it. You only have to obey it and if you dont want to then you take the consequences when you are caught.
*Applauds*
Handle the food or leave. No moans. no coimplaints. no compromise. You are employed to do a job. Do the job or don't be employed.
If someones religious beliefs get in the way of them being able to do the job properly, then they should leave in my opinion. If my employer suddenly started letting children into the IT centre, I'd leave. If my employer expected me to teach a class of troublesome under 16s, I'd leave. If they suddenly decided that it would be a good idea to train up "reformed" sex offenders, I'd leave.
It's life!! You don't like it - LEAVE!!!
Sorry for seeming het up about this - I find it frankly pathetic, although I admire seaviewuk's willingness to help out.
Majik
Associate
The real question here is whether these guys are actually worried about betraying their faith by handling pork products, or whether they are kicking up a fuss in order to see what happens. After all, they could conceivably receive sizeable compensation for racial discrimination by their employer. Or, more likely, it gets them out of work for a little while.
Some people have to work in slaughter houses or chemical factories. Some people have to clean up animal faeces. Some people are bored to tears counting coins all day in banks. Most folk have to do things they don't particularly like.
Why should your interpretation of an ancient fairy tale be any more valid a reason than "I just don't want to".
Some people have to work in slaughter houses or chemical factories. Some people have to clean up animal faeces. Some people are bored to tears counting coins all day in banks. Most folk have to do things they don't particularly like.
Why should your interpretation of an ancient fairy tale be any more valid a reason than "I just don't want to".
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
Soldato
You get my vote, I agree totally with everything that you just said. There is no grey area here, they don't want to do the work, due to their religious beliefs, they either give up the job or the religion, simple enough?
This may be going off-topic a bit, and for that I apologise, and it is not meant to be offensive, but ..... in at least one sense of the word, any religious beliefs are, by definition, irrational. To whit :-Originally posted by wohoo
Fox pal i dont think you really have the right to call my beliefs irational, that just displays grand ignorance on your part.
Surely any religion is based on belief, on faith, not on reason or rationale?
This is not to say any religion is necessarily right or wrong, but rational is not necessarily a word that can be applied ... and are therefore irrational??? It's not necessarily a derogatory statement, but a descriptive one.
Caveat - I don't know if this was the context in which the comment was originally made, or if it was the derogatory sense you seem to have assumed.
As for the original post, I'm in the camp of believing that the two guys, if acting as represented, are being unreasonable. They surely cannot expect to dictate to the employer what products are going to be sold? The cannot expect a non-Muslim company in a non-Muslim country to decide policy based on the religious beliefs of a couple of employees. If they do, then as has been said above, the implication in the future is that other employers are going to find excuses not to employ Muslims, just in case they fall foul of some other religious requirement.
If these two guys are serious about not handling pork product, despite it being inside a pastry crust and inside a sealed plastic wrapper, then it is certainly their right to express their concern and ask if their employer can find alternative employment for them. If such can be found, then great - everyone is happy. If not, then I think they need to decide whether their job or how they see their religious obligations is more important to them.
Associate
I don't agree with that.
I follow my religion (Islam) because I feel it is wholly rational and logical. It answers all of my questions concerning the origin of life, how to live life and what to expect later on. Mainstream "rational" thinking tells me we're here by accident and have no purpose. I can't agree with that, and to me that is irrational.
All depends on your personal opinion as to what is rational and what is not.
But they can't all be rational and logical. They all have different views of god, some have different views of how many gods there are, so clearly only one or two can be correct, meaning that logically, the rest are incorrect/irrational?
Scientific fact is available which shows that Pigs and Cows have no huge differences in their makeup which would allow someone to form a legitimate reason to eat one, but not the other. Dismissing just one type of animal based on religion is, therefore, irrational. It's flying in the face of scientific fact and instead going on hearsay and texts passed down from generation to generation. Is that not irrational? Yes? No?
Associate
Yes that would make sense. If indeed there is only one correct view then that would make the rest of the views irrational/incorrect. However, being as no one can prove to the 100% satisfaction of every single person what that correct view is, then rationality remains to be an individual's opinion. This not only applies to religion, but to science as well (the areas of science that rely on theory).
That's all well and good, but we all can clearly see that cows and pigs ARE different. They're appearance is different, size is different, structure is different (cow's have 4 stomachs) etc... they're totally different. This justifies that they should be treated differently.. or rather, if they were to be treated differently it should not be surprising. In the same way, humans and flies have very similar genetic makeup yet we don't treat flies in the same way as we treat each other (although sometimes I wouldn't mind swatting a few people
).Your scientific fact would hold more ground if the cow and pig were exactly the same. They are not, so the difference is enough to justify treating them differently.
The main reason for not eating pork (in both muslim and jewish practice) is actually hygiene. When these things were enshrined in the religion, pork was an unhealthy meat, as pigs were unclean animals (at least compared to cows etc), the meat required more careful cooking, and better preparation.
That particular viewpoint may be outdated now, but it's become accepted. While I believe that if they won't sell the products they are required to, they should look for another job, It is also relevant to understand where their viewpoint comes from.
To dismiss things as rational/irrational is just silly, as one mans rational is another's irrational. (for a cross forum example, I can't understand your xantia obsession, but I don't constantly pick you up on it)
-Dolph
That particular viewpoint may be outdated now, but it's become accepted. While I believe that if they won't sell the products they are required to, they should look for another job, It is also relevant to understand where their viewpoint comes from.
To dismiss things as rational/irrational is just silly, as one mans rational is another's irrational. (for a cross forum example, I can't understand your xantia obsession, but I don't constantly pick you up on it)
-Dolph
Caporegime
Originally posted by BigWillyJohnson
Yes that would make sense. If indeed there is only one correct view then that would make the rest of the views irrational/incorrect. However, being as no one can prove to the 100% satisfaction of every single person what that correct view is, then rationality remains to be an individual's opinion. This not only applies to religion, but to science as well (the areas of science that rely on theory).
That's all well and good, but we all can clearly see that cows and pigs ARE different. They're appearance is different, size is different, structure is different (cow's have 4 stomachs) etc... they're totally different. This justifies that they should be treated differently.. or rather, if they were to be treated differently it should not be surprising. In the same way, humans and flies have very similar genetic makeup yet we don't treat flies in the same way as we treat each other (although sometimes I wouldn't mind swatting a few people
Your scientific fact would hold more ground if the cow and pig were exactly the same. They are not, so the difference is enough to justify treating them differently.
hear hear big willy...i was gonna post something along the likes of that...but u couldnt have said it any better...
Caporegime
umm m8 i dont think its as simple as that...leaving their religion etc...seeing as they are making a fuss bout the pork handling bit....i think it would be much easier if they left the jobs that they are in at the moment...i know i would...no chance in hell would i leave my religion...
btw im muslim too....lol
Originally posted by BigWillyJohnson
That's all well and good, but we all can clearly see that cows and pigs ARE different. They're appearance is different, size is different, structure is different (cow's have 4 stomachs) etc... they're totally different. This justifies that they should be treated differently.. or rather, if they were to be treated differently it should not be surprising. In the same way, humans and flies have very similar genetic makeup yet we don't treat flies in the same way as we treat each other (although sometimes I wouldn't mind swatting a few people
Of course they are different in appearance but are they different in the way they are cooked, eaten, and the possible effect they could have on a person? I don't think they are. This is all a theory anyway, I'm not entirely sure what I think about it.
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