My 200mph budget build

[turbotoaster]

ooooo nice, well at 500bhp it should do the limiter assuming its making power up that high in the revs. i dont think it would do anymore than that as power vs aero will come into it.

Should do 175 at an airfield and must be lovely to drive with instant response and low down torque

Will be much nicer to drive that my car lol.

At least by keeping my stock 2 sets of injectors the car will run like a stock car up to 4k then the bigger injectors open up

 

[turbotoaster]

is that psi tuning, the one in stoke on trent? ive been meaning to pop up to there place and have a look at there new rollers, i think its only rated to 500bhp but i could be wrong

 

[turbotoaster]

nah, this would be with just the magazine, it would be nice to do it at an event but it means i would be waiting around a lot to get runs in and practice,also ill be using braking at the last possible point i can to give me the most time on full throttle, i dont think they would like that at all, plus could you imagine the evil look on the ferrari/lambo guys faces haha

 

[turbotoaster]

cool, i could do with taking the car out for a drive, might have a look around there place

 

[turbotoaster]

well my girlfriend is coming over tomorow with a homecooked curry and some sort of desert so ill be busy in day and working in the evening(another way to live on £30 for food lol)

But i might pop over friday or saturday daytime, will you be over either of them days?

 

[turbotoaster]

ah cool, i might go down on saturday to watch that then, you coming, i went one last weekend, its so much fun to watch and a good social atmosphere

 

[turbotoaster]

Project looks good mate. Cool idea but I can see you overspending quite easily lol!

You have no idea mate, everything i buy i need to spend a week tracking down the cheapest prices to get within budget, if the purse strings werent tight on this id probably pump 20k into this

probably busy mate
ps sorry for the thread hijack

ah no worries mate, do you happen to know what time the rolling road starts, 9am?

 

[turbotoaster]

actually i can nip down sat am iv got my manual 4wd controller back from hollland i need to drop that off what time are you goin mate?

well if its starting at 9am ill get there then to watch, beats lying in bed all morning or getting dragged around the shops.

Very interesting thread, thank you for going to the lengths of explaining what you are doing and why especially with the ports, very interesting!

If I were doing something like this I would be tempted to see what I can do within the budget then blow the rest on insurance (be that a parachute or something to help stop or something to help it get to the marker).

That phone holder worked out perfectly for you aswell, I was going to suggest the cheap Tesco hold all phones thing that I have that cost about £7 and blatently isn't a satnav holder but you cant beat £2 and it can't fall off the screen either!

thats very much, i find i absorb so much information on things i enjoy thats its nice to share it every so often, i can sit and enjoy reading peoples tech articles all the time so thought id do one for something that isnt a common none thing.

im under know allusion that making 700-750 will be a walk in the park, i used to work for fuchs/silkolene so ive spent a lot of time around oils, fuels etc hopefully that knowledge will make this process go along easier, a big issue when you get to this sort of power is the rotors bashing the plates(the bit you port) which can cause the seals on the rotor to pick up and become stuck, ie the spring doesnt push the seal back out of the rotor and onto the plate(making good compression) to get over this issue im going to increase the amount of oil that is sprayed into the chamber, mixing in 2 stroke race ashless oil to help with lubrication in my fuel and also a mix of 15w50 race car oil from a pump to also help the situation.

If you want more random tech stuff just ask as i enjoy writing it

I think im going to write another one on here tomorow on turbo compressor maps, then fuel injector sizing, ill do them both for piston engine applications which should help people in future as a point of refence on there piston engined vehicles

 

[turbotoaster]

my oils arrived today.

Love that i worked for silkolene, free oils, would have cost me £320 if i needed to buy all that!!

thats fully syn 15w50 oil
gearbox and diff oil

gonna replace it all sometime this week when i get chance

 

[turbotoaster]

on stock engines its best to run 5w-30 or even 0w-30 in really cold countrys.

the problem you have is when u get to heavy use on them, 2 issues happen.

one being is because they run a lot richer you get blowby past the sideseals(like pistonrings) so you fuel mixed into the oil which thins it down to much, hence going for a thicker oil helps keeps its vicosity and high oil pressure for longer.

Also due to this engine being worked a lot harder than a stock one theres much more heat generated into the oil which in turn thins it down to much and you dont get enough pressure, its a big thing in california/miami, where they have big power ones, love to dyno and a lot of heat is generated.
They get to the point where oil pressure is to low and the stop dynoing etc.

they normally go to 20w50 mix to keep the pressure where they want it, im going 15w50 as my car isnt a dynoqueen so it will get much more airflow and also cold start are in much lower atmos temps

 

[turbotoaster]

Hi Turbotoaster. I've read the majority of this thread. Sorry to see it got a bit heated earlier on and glad to see it is back on topic now. I look forward to reading the updates. Maybe each time you post an update you could put a big "UPDATE" in bold, large, red text or something? That way for those of us that don't have quite the time to read all of the thread and other silly posts, we can quickly zap to each update? I wish you luck. I hope you get it done before Autumn though.

To be fair, watching everyone get heated made me laugh quite a lot, seems theres a lot of in-fighting on the forum, i dont really know what they were argueing about though, im just looking to share and offer/recieve info.

Does anyone know how to change the title of the thread so that each time i get parts/work done? If this makes it easier for the subscribers.

Another update is ive changed my injector setup to try and give me a more reliable setup, make mapping easier and save some money

There was a few issues with my original idea which i did not foresee.

One was that the additional 1600cc injectors are low impediance which means i would have to install resistors before the injectors, i knew of this and didnt think that was a big deal.

I assumed that would make them act like high imp ones, and my apexi ecu would control them as such(thats normally true) i was gonna trick my ecu into thinking that each injector was infact 2450cc(1600cc+my original 850cc) so that they fire together, the issue is the ecu will end up messing up the transition from small primary 550cc to the 2 big ones and flood the engine.

I have now solved this problem by coming across 'injector dynamics' 2000cc injectors, they are special injectors that even when the fuel pressure is increased they provide a consistant spray pattern.

by running these at 50psi base pressure they will provide 2500cc each which as i need 6000cc and i have 1000cc in primarys in the car this will be perfect.

the other benefit is i now dont need to by injector holders to weld into my upper inlet manifold which saves me money, the injectors are more expensive thant he 1600cc, but i think its work it for simplicity.

So i ordered them last night from america so id imagine they will be here sometime next week.


Unfortuately i cant get it done quicker than autumn as i physically cant get the money quick enough, if someone lent me £3k now id have the car complete for march

Wow, an amazing thread (how did I not see it before!?)

Some great technical info, and I'm going to be really interested to see you bring it in at budget (and hope you won't go over budget).

When you do the run, you'll need to get some cameras set up in the car, too!

Im sure the magazine will bring loads of cameras and there will be a few people to film it with there phones.

In terms of budget its all about adjusting and adapting to meet it, i know i can do it as there are places i can save and then places where its expensive, just a matter of being patient

Apologies if i've missed this, but where are you looking at doing the run?

M25 at 4am?

Ill be doing a few tests on 'private' test track before the event to make sure everything is working as it should, though cant quote exact speeds that will be hit

 

[turbotoaster]

what tyres you gonna be using for this?

i thought about you on saturday whilst stood next to a Merc S55 AMG/Brabus, on a dyno, peering through the window, seeing the speedo go off the 180mph clock, looking down at the rear tyre (2ft-3ft from my right left)

the tyre had expanded so much, the bead/rim protector was raised a good 5mm-1mm from the rim

That was one of the first things i did ask about when i thought about tyre sizes etc.

I was more thinking about the centrifugal forces makes the tyre expand beyond its 'natural' size.

When speaking to Rod about it, he said when calculating his stack dash off gears and cold 35psi tyre size he ended up still being close, ie at 200mph his stackdash was 1mph out.

So he believes there is a very small amount of expansion but not enough to add it into the equation.

Accelarating from 60-120 will cause a small increase in tyre pressure due to heat of friction and a little bit of wheelspin but then will equalise after this point.

The issue you see on a rolling road is infact the car wanting to wheelspin in the rollers for the entire run, this will generate heat and cause the tyre expansion, ie you can wheelspin a car on the rollers in 4th but not on the road at the same rpm.

Ill be using toyo 888s as this will give me better traction out of the corner onto the straight and have been proven to run at 210mph safely

Well, i've learned a bunch about how engines work from this thread! I'm not really a mechanically minded guy and avoid it if i can help it... but this is proper interesting. Subscribing! Good luck!

glad to be of help, any questions you wanna ask about anything mechanical on rotary or piston ask away

 

[turbotoaster]

r888s are great BUT they wont help your top speed at all mate you get a lot more rolling friction from sticky tyres than normal tyres

the reason im going for them is two fold.

I know they have been taken over 200mph a few times by different tuners.

since this is rwd and im gonna try and put 700bhp to the tarmac coming out of the corner i want to keep my speed as high as possible, so the more grip i have the faster i can corner.

I understand softer compound tyres cause more friction, thats the point of them, but i never claim to be a driving god and these will make my life easier trying to get out of that corner without the rear overtaking the front.

oh yeh i went to that rolling road day at psi.....i left after an hour, dear me there was more fun atmosphere at a funeral!!
you couldnt watch the runs properly as they put the big shutter down and we all had to stand outside when it was minus 4, not fun

 

[turbotoaster]

the problem is cost im afraid.

im going to be running a standard auto diff which with a standing start will destroy itself with that much power.

You cant get a uprated diff with a 3.9 ratio, only 4.1 plus.

the only option then would be to go with a american v8 9" rear diff and pay to have all that fitted which will cost a fortune.

If i were to fit that id probably snap the driveshafts on launch so id need to pay another 400 for stronger shafts.

There just isnt the money really for standing start runs.

Ill be coming around the corner in third gear, probably at about 70-80mph, which will take a lot of pressure off the backend as it will already be loaded up.

Ill get there early and do a few practice runs at the corner, ie increase my cornering in 5mph intervals to find out where the limit is, then do a run at that speed and follow it on down the straight to get a low top speed in(say 170-180)

Once ive done that i can concerntrate on getting my braking points at the end of the straight sorted, then just a case of combining it all together and hopefully jobs a good one

if i was running a different rear end id just launch it down the straight hard and do 200mph in one run, have a bacon sarnie and then go home lol

 

[turbotoaster]

this is just a quick sketch to give you an idea of what happens there.

You have a choice on which route you take, as you can see its harder to keep the speed up and accelarate in a rwd car coming out of the corner as it will want to drift.

You can choose the other option of launching from where i marked '0mph' and all you have to do is keep the car straight which is a lot easier, but then you put a lot more pressure on the diff/driveshafts.

If this was a 4wd or fwd car then the corner route would be a lot easier

 

[turbotoaster]

realy nice work there maty loving it.

just a Q if i may

the pic you compare the two ports stock and then ported was that a shot of the inlet port? dont get me wrong you know what you is doing I was just all ways aware that Inlet ports look good all blingy but they dont work as well due to the fuel not atomising instead on a shiny port the fuel just forms in droplets on the surface.

any who great work.

ah im guessing your looking at the pic on page 2 where its all nice and shiny.

That pic is actually a reference picture i took from a website in america to show the difference in size as i thought that pic was easy for everyone to see.

My ports are the nearly same 'roughness' as stock ports, just a lot bigger, on page 6 you can see my templates i made to do the porting, thats probably an easier way to look at the size, but yeh, i know about shiny ports and didnt go down that route you dont need to worry

though im gonna be putting around 6000cc/min at peak power so id imagine theres only so much that could possibly stick lol

 

[turbotoaster]

yeh thats rod, im only going off what he and mark shead do when they are attempting run, also thats the same as the 700bhp 911 that did 211mph down there, he follows the same line from trying different things in the past.

I can only assume they are right as ive never attempted it myself and with the large amount of attempts they both have had.

if i were to take the corner slower and stay more to the left of the picture(i assume thats what you mean) it means i have to be at full throttle at a lower speed, which then means i have to try and put 700bhp down in second instead of third which is most likely to wheelspin and cause my diff to break from wheel hop.

I think its easier to hit the corner at a higher speed then hit the throttle less, saying that, watching the video of mark in the car he is full throttle in third from about halfway between the 70mph and 80mph markers on my picture and changes from 3rd to 4th at about my 100mph marker but he will be doing more like 120-125mph.

I know my car will corner better than his as i have better suspension and wider tyres, so i should be able to match him at the 120mph, its just then his extra 200bhp comes in and he buggers off

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9-UF1_1LQE

watch from from 3:00 onwards to see what i mean

 

[turbotoaster]

just looking at thaty pic suggests to me the apex should be later than it shows that way you get a straighter line onto the straight allowing for more throttle

im a much better with a pencil and paper than i am with paint so just tried to pull the line to a rough curve, i know that not the exact line, it was more to show that other guy what i meant about the corner, ill be following the cossie line much closer than my 2 secs doodle lol

funny enough we was on about that guys cossie last night a bunch of us were suggesting cars that could do it and we were watching his video that was on fifth gear .

how much did it take for his engine and mods though ?

Well i think last time it did a top speed run it was up to 40k plus the car, but that car has been through many evolutions and has the best of everything, hes also going for 215mph this year with a 1000bhp so way out of my leaque, probably closer to 50k plus the car.

the one of 5th gear you watched was 700bhp engine +150shot of nos i believe

 

[turbotoaster]

my new intercooler arrived today so i thought id chuck some pics up.

Now originally i had decided to go with a 70mm thick rs500 intercooler, the reason for this is that it would fit pretty well into the enginebay and is known to flow well for 700bhp.

When i was chatting to my manifold guy on msn he mentioned inlet/outlet sizes, i said well the standard cossie is 2.5inch throttle body and the rs500 was 3inch from what i had been told, so if its aimed at the 700bhp market then it will have 3inch pipes(it didnt say on the website) He recommended i check with them just incase.

I emailed them and they confirmed that they were infact only 2.5inch......since the outlet of my turbo is already being reduced from 3.5in to 3inch i didnt want to go down in size again, asking how much it would be to cut them off and weld in 3in he said £60-80, which would take the price of the cooler up to £370 which in my eyes was to much as i would have to make savings somewhere else to hit budget.

So then i looked at other options and come across this cooler i now have recieved.

They retail at £180 on ebay but luckily they had on that was on auction, with a bid of sniping i got it for £72!! Now i again need some work doing to it but its a big saving over the other cooler

the core is 600mmx290mmx120mm...yep its a thick one.

it has a larger overall capacity than the 70mm cooler and ive seen it push 900bhp in america so hopefully it will do the job for me.

big box arrives this morning!

woohoo, no damage anywhere

its rather thick

its also rather bloody heavy!

put in hot water for 10mins to test for any air leaks, seems fine

compared to standard cooler

now just need to do some measurements to compare it on the car to see what needs to be modded to fit

 

[turbotoaster]

not 100% sure, the original weighs about 3kg max i would say.

the car wil have a lot of its weight altered, the big intercooler, larger rad, massive turbo, 2 large fuel pumps.

there will be little savings like a side exit but im thinking the car is now 1220kg, it will be closer to 1300kg when its finished and i dont really want to strip the car out as i like it comfy as it is, i may install lighter bucket seats but that will be after the top speed run


and im trying to avoid putting it into the bumper as it means longer pipework, its a big cooler and big turbo so i want to minimize distance the air has to travel if i can.

due to the size of the cooler it seems there space i have in the engine bay is where the battery box starts and also where it ends which is 266mm

the cooler is 120mm, rad is 73mm and id say the fans are 60mm but if anyone can confirm there width for me that would be brilliant....thats 253mm so im cutting it fine.

here is an idea, what do you think

since the cooler shape means at its widest it will be around 810mm(where the inlets would be welded) there are other areas where is narrower, so it could be mounted completely flat and one end me closer to the front of the car as its only 290mm in height so at worst i could mount it in a vmount configuration, but then ill need to look at bonnets because i dont believe i can but 2bar of boost through it and it have no path to release the hot air