My 200mph budget build

[turbotoaster]

i love how everyone thinks going fast in a straight line on a massive airfield is super dangerous, that the car is suddenly gonna flip and takeoff, that previous video was caused by wheel spin at 200mph on salt.

Just for reference now the engine has done 900miles i took it to a dyno to see how the engine was doing.

running a very rich map(so power lost) running stock boost(10psi) it made 283bhp at 6900rpm.

This is 400rpm higher than stock and 30bhp more power, so at a very low boost running super rich(11:1 afr)

This shows that my ports are flowing well, id imagine with a bit of adjustment to the fuel to where the stock afr is another 20bhp could be gained, so thats 50bhp above stock at same boost

just need to do a compression test to check everything is bed in correctly and then start saving more money to start putting things together

 

[turbotoaster]

What gear box/mods are you planning to use as I'd guess you'd need to increase the gearing quite a bit to reach 200mph? I'm also surprised there's been no mention of nitrous oxide becasuse as well as being a relatively cheap way to add extra power it's good for cooling too.

if you look on a previous page it shows my calculations on how to make it to 200mph, standard gearbox is fine, auto diff for the longer gearing.

Im leaving nos alone because its not something extra i have to deal with, would rather let the engine deal with it.

dont fancy charged air, water, race fuel and nitrous to deal with, more to go wrong

It isn't, it's just small. You're talking about 175kg when all's said and done.

true, but due to its size its very far back in the engine bay behind the front wheels

and 175kg is with everything on it, the actual engine without power steering or aircon, turbo is about 70kg, so there are ways of reducing it further

 

[turbotoaster]

email to me? just checked my hotmail and theres nothing there.

my email is [email protected]

 

[turbotoaster]

ah thanks mate, just checked my trust and it was my old email address, well the idea sounds pretty cool actually, there will be proper photographers there from the magazine taking pics etc, but i suppose if you followed me at speed around the bottom corner at(80-90mph) then it would show the difference in power as we come onto the straight.

kind of like when they compare a bugatti and an audi tt lol

 

[turbotoaster]

well i can only put about £200 a month towards this, all the rest of my money goes on just living.

so id say ive got another 1k go put towards this before its done, id imagine it will be autumn time to keep the intake temps down so it doesnt cost to much power

 

[turbotoaster]

racing typhoons down the runway isnt needed to get their attention

haha you my dear sir are made of awesome!!

cooler air temp = denser air = more drag doesnt it?

now that has been brought up before by a few people, technically yes the thicker the air the harder it is to go through but the effects are negiotiable at best, the cooler temps benefit the oil coolers, intercooler and rad, keeping power for the full distance as you can loose some power after a while at full throttle

sounds like a plan then, I'm not at home till Sunday evening, I'll add you to msn and we can have a proper chat

yeh ok mate, speak to ya soon


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amx3nY-oGoU this is from cold

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIDIzCDOFOk this is when its warm after a run

to give everyone an idea what it sounds like, remember its still got the cat on and a 3inch normal exhaust so is about 1/10 of the loudness it will be when its got no cat and is a 5inch pipe exiting just behind the front driver wheel

 

[turbotoaster]

i dont drink, i dont smoke, cars are the only hobby i really have, something ive loved since i was a little child.

most people will spend £50 a week on good food/drink/nights up town, since they dont interest me id rather put that money to something ill truly enjoy.

This isnt some 50k super build, this is to prove to everyone and more importantly to push myself technically that if i set my mind to something i can achieve it.

for whats on the car already, including buying it is 6750, so i have 3250 left to put on it.

£200 for dual fuel pumps
£300 for fuel pressure reg, 1600cc injectors and fuel rail
£120 for radiator
£280 for intercooler
£1400 for turbo, manifold, wastegate, downpipe, screamerpipe
£150 water injection
£250 spark amplifier
that comes to £2700 so in the long run im already most of the way there
once i have achieved my goal, ill turn the boost right down and have a nice 500bhp reliable weekend car, i walk to work so this is just something for me to make sure i cope with the boredom and tedium of my job

 

[turbotoaster]

ok, since this seems so much of an interest to people in regards of how i pay for this.

my rent is 280 a month which includes all bills including internet
i pay 75 a month to insure my car
I go out normally twice a month into town on a night out, since i drink £10 does me so that £20 a month.
spend £30 a month on food

so thats £405 out goings, anything above that is pocket money

I get £700 a month take home, been putting £200 a month towards this and £95 has covered me for fuel, general buying bits and bobs, i walk to work so car only gets used for shopping trips, days out at weekend.

Happy now?

 

[turbotoaster]

Some people won't get what your doing, ignore them and let us who are interested enjoy this !

What magazines do you have interested then?

Redline magazine have defo said they will cover it, will pay for the day out and hiring bruntingthorpe, i just need to turn up, should be about a 3-4page full feature with loads of pics, ive told them thats fine but i want to write the tech for it, so many mistakes are made in mags that if this is the only time im gonna be in i want it to be correct.

You do actually know what 'green eyes' are, right? Why are there members on this forum who think that anyone who doesnt jump around and throw a party for anyone who posts something on this forum absolutely must be 'jealous'? Do you not think that people are able to discuss aspects of a project like this whilst NOT motivated by jealousy? What exactly are they supposed to be jealous of anyway?

He was the one who decided to tell us all exactly how much he earnt and how much it cost. If you bring that information into a thread, you must be prepared to discuss it and accept peoples opinions on it. If you dont want that, thats fine - just dont mention it and nobody can discuss it.

But seriously, jealousy? I suspect confusion motivates most of the comments, I doubt anyone is jealous!

Like it or not money is probably one of the most important forces in the world. Finance is probably one of the most important factors of any project of this type. Therefore people will always want to discuss it - especially in a project like this where people will be intruiged as to how its funded etc. It's pretty simple to avoid it, you just... dont bring it up in the first place.

Hey mate im sorry if i snapped at you a bit on here, it was late last night and my girlfriend was moaning at me after she came home drunk, took it out on you a bit

Really interested in this thread, hope you do it mate

On a side note, how do you only spend £30 a month on food? I spend more than that a week!

Pretty simple really, today im gonna have a pizza that are £3 for 3, they are massive so that will do me for the rest of the day.

I by 9p noodles because i like them and tinned stuff because its easy to microwave.

I dont bother with takeaways or anything like that, last one i had was last year that my gf bought me for taking her out for the day

Party at Fox's, 8pm. Bring your receipts from the last 12 months and all the accounts you have

He made a point of how hard it doesn't need to be to undertake something like this. It's clearly not happened overnight so some saving and planning has happened to make sure he can afford more than beans on toast, not that it matters what he eats as a result (lets not go there). There are aspirations to get into the RAF and as soon as that happens projects like this will hit the backburner. If I could do things like this right now I would because I don't see myself having the spare cash in 5/6 years time when I might earn enough as I'll probably have kids and bigger responsibilities etc etc.

It would be nice to look back on "when I went 200mph" or "when I nearly hit 200mph and did a Hammond" one day rather than "when I worked in a call centre and played XBox all day".

Exactly, one thing that has dawned on me in life is, dont miss out, im not gonna be one of those old blokes who sits around wishing he had done certain things in his life, because by then its to late.

Ive won a few race events before so i know how to peddle a car and i find that really brings out the best in me, i love to learn and come up with my own ideas to achieve something, my last car had about 6 big things that no one had ever done before and thats why it won.

I do want to get into the RAF, got my final 3 day selection in april, this will infact speed the process of this build up because ill have more money, plus plenty of airfields to practice on before the big day.

To be honest things like this keep me going in life, anyone with a big budget can do 200mph but no one has ever done it with the budget ive got and thats what i think makes it special and pushes me.

 

[turbotoaster]

All this being about 3 posts which he cleared up himself, then a 30 post 'fling' after the freedom fighters charged in, you mean?

Had the 'omg green eyed' brigade just.. gone and done some washing or something instead we'd probably have been back on the subject of the RX7 long ago. I know as far as I'm concerned all my care about his finances was summed up using a single sentance and I felt no need to say any more.

Between him being asked and the OMG WHY DO YOU CARE OMG YOU ARE JEALOUS OMG squad turning up, there were actually just 5 posts -1 of which was the OP, 2 of which were Morba, 1 was me just saying I didn't understand it and one was Dup saying how he admired it or something.

But the 'I will take offence on your behalf' clan arrived and well, the rest is history..

The OP clearly isn't bothered - so why is everyone else?

If anything I think I have more respect for him after he revealed his costs than before. Before it didn't really interest me, yea great a fast RX7, get the chequebook out and anything is possible. But now he's posted those figures its quite clear there is real passion here. I now actually care if hits 200mph.

bloody hell, i come back and seems to be a lot of fun on here.

theres a famous new zealand man called burt munro, he was only really known through the bonnieville world for his passion and 'thinking outside the box' about 7years ago i bought a book on him and read it cover to cover about 5 times, its almost like i could see myself in 40yrs staring back at me in them pages, when people ask me why i want to do this, or why dont i think traveling at 70mph is enough to for anyone, i tell them to watch the movie(doubt anyone would read the book just to find out)....for reference in the movie, when he was going for his top speed i was yelling at the screen like a 5yr old willing him on haha

Im glad fox that you support me on this, like i say, yeh id like to earn more money so i could do this faster but i have to work to my budget, i dont own a credit card anymore or owe anybody a penny, so that everything i do will be mine no matter what the future.

Also i never have plans to sell this car as i love driving it, but if i did, im sure i wouldnt struggle to get 10k for a car that does 200mph, is mint on the outside and underneath, so it will have been a free exercise.

I have to say, I'd be inclined to fit a nitrous system, a progressive one - just to be safe. You could run a relatively gentle 75-150bhp shot that ramps up, for use in top gear when you're at speed - to really help you hammer down and get past that limit, as you may find yourself really fighting aerodynamics and struggling to pull the gearing needed to get up to speed - especially in such a short distance.

You could scrape together a progressive controller, bottle, set of solenoids and what little else you'd need for a few hundred quid - and it'd be good insurance, as it could prevent disappointment on the day - but either way, whatever speed you achieve will be a great milestone.

Not that I have anything against all-motor attempts, but it's nice to have a little bit of throttle in a bottle if you need it.

Best of luck! If there's anything I can do to help, let me know!

Anyway out of all that i find one question on the car so ill start there.

Lashout......well to be fair ive never put nitrous into my equation because its another system that can cause problems or fail, nitrous isnt the greatest of forgiver if you do something wrong, now if this was a piston engined car then it would be my first port of car, but rotarys are a very delicate engine, massive power if you get it right, blow up if you get any of the tuning slightly off.

havent got time to mess about with twitter to be fair, i cant imagine people would actively hunt me down to watch the build when its full of z list celebrities telling the world what they had for breakfast that day

I love the ambition in this project, can't wait to see it done.

Are you going to be taking it on track or anything after you've done your 200 run?

ill turn the boost down, run it on pump fuel at 500-550bhp which should be enough for a 1200kg car, i might take it on a couple of track days, cant really afford to go drag racing as id need new diff, axles and gearbox though

 

[turbotoaster]

since this is my thread, i thought id do a little rotary porting 101 if people are still reading.

to understand a rotary engine you have the imagine, how could i make my engine simpler, what things limit me when im making power(naturally asp)

Well first we look at cams, stock cams are normally pretty mild, with low lift and short duration, so, they dont allow the valves to open much or for long......doesnt allow much space to get that air in there does it.

So we change over to a more aggressive cam which does it....more power!

then we move onto the head, because yes the valves are nice and open but the air still needs to get down to them by passing down a small hole, increase the size of that hole(port) means we can more of that valuable air to the valves.

now from reading that you understand the basic principles of piston engine tuning.

Now a rotary isnt some magical engine run on leprechauns and peanut butter, it must follow the same rulls as a piston engine.

But how it does this well....it swaps all that for just a hole, thats right, the cams, valves, valve springs, head.

Now i wont go into detail on how a rotary works, ill just explain how to tune them.

Before reading anything else below i suggest you watch this as i found this explains how a rotary works very well so everybody should understand it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGrD7FTFLJc&feature=related


Ok now you have watched it ill continue on.

As you saw in the video, the rotor has 3 sides, to make it easier, ill call the first side, SIDE 1.
the port where the fuel/air comes in is opened by one end of the SIDE 1, the air/fuel comes in, then is closed off by the other end of SIDE 1.

So you have an opening and a closing, just like you do with a cam to open and close valves.

Now this below is a typical stock port, the one you find on standard rx7s

when the rotor moves to reveal the port(open) the first part that is opened is the long left hand side edge, the mixture comes into the chamber and then the other end of the rotor closes the port at the top horizontal edge as it rotates.

So by making the hole larger in different areas you can affect when the port will be open and also when it will be closed.

these are 2 pics of my templates over stock ports so you can see what i have done to my engine

this is my secondary port(ie big one to help with high rpm)

as you can see i am making it open earlier a little bit, if you go to far you get overlap so loose to much low down power, but then you can see i have increased it a lot at the top of the port(closing) this is to help get the air into the engine, ie wait as long as possible before the port closes, this like duration on cams.

One last thing you should notice is the stock port has a flat top and mine is a curve, this is to help the engine make the power a little bit lower down and give me a wider torque curve, if it was straight it would close instantly instead of a lower close and a faster close means you make maximum power higher in the rpm.

Since the engine needs to be useful for many different things i found it would be best to not make a 10krpm screamer.

now this is my primary port, this is the one that the fuel goes down when in driving like miss daisy and generally pootling around.

Now because of i want the car to run around nicely on the street i want to keep this mild.

Now as you can see the out edge is ported much larger than the secondary port above, the reason for is the port is smaller than the other so i have more room to increase it without getting overlap.

if you compare the pictures apart from the length, they are the same width, showing that both ports now open and close at the same time.


Now thats the port timing done(like fitting cams) now because as you can see i have had to increase the size of the ports to get the timing right i have also allowed much more air to pass through because of there physical size....this is like porting out a head for it to flow more.

Pretty simple really, buy a dremel and a porting kit from b&q and do it yourself, does the same thing as porting a head and buying a set of expensive cams, valves, valve springs

 

[turbotoaster]

Not knowing a huge amount about cars I might be way off, but will you be looking to tune it to run on Av-Gas or Bio Fuel for the few extra horses it can give?

not on av-gas no.

Its a real pity that we just cant get E85 fuel like the americans can, yes i know a few morrisons do it, but not enough of them to make it worth while, if that was the case id easily make 700bhp on that and that would be the fuel and power i would run on the road after the event.

Ill just be down to pump fuel and water injection

are you fitting some kind of flat undertray for underneath the car mate?

Its not required to be honest, since im only going in a straight line on tarmac i dont really need a massive amount of downforce, the car being extremely low on the day will give any additional downforce.

If i had to corner at high speed or was on a loose surface(salt) then id look at that

 

[turbotoaster]

ah i get ya sorry, ermm i dont think it will be required, yes it would help but not worth the effort, if i was maxing the car out at bonnieville or at nardi high speed ring then id say yes id fit one

 

[turbotoaster]

the car does have a chin spoiler, from tests at mazda it does not increase drag at the front end so it will be staying as it changes lift coefficient from 0.16 to 0.10 to help keep it down.

also wind tunnel testing shows dramatic increase of air forced into the radiator ducts, the oil cooler ducts(which in turn flow to the brake cooling ducts) by having the chin spoiler compared to none(US base model)

the rear has a very low lift co of 0.08 anyway as the underside at the rear does make use of the air from factory to help.

Ive already spoken to racing beat about this, if you go back a few pages you can see an email from them about it.

I emailed them back and explained that this was on tarmac, the reason they ran a 5in ducktail spoiler on the back is to help grip on salt then you accelarate, there previous car spun the back wheels at over 200mph as there wasnt enough grip, your not gonna have that issue on tarmac.

the car comes with a under engine tray which travels pretty far back, it defo helps with temps from what tests have been done on rx7s.

and no the car wont be fitted with a rollcage, you may not like that, but im 6ft3, not really much room in there as it is

 

[turbotoaster]

If it were a standing mile, I doubt I'd post in this thread as I would not have thought that it could be done...maybe that could be the next goal

Really excellent project with the 10k budget, please don't forget to update it. Good luck with the mapping and the cooling, both are going to be absolutely crucial. Having your foot buried for 30 seconds on a top speed run is going to bring any tolerance and clearance issues up sharpish

Not sure how many runs you'll be looking at on the day but take care and roll off smooth and triple check your pins/latch. Good luck, hope you do it.

cheers mate, to do it in a standing mile id need around 800-850bhp in my car, have to run some massive tyres on the back to get sort of traction as that defo is a big drag race, prob something like 335 width hoosier/mt et streets would do it, thats 8cm wider that whats on there now, i think i can run 295max on the back with stock arches so bigger ones would be required.

i could get that power if i either added n2o or went to a gt45 turbo, though i would need to take the engine apart again for bridgeporting and clearancing

either that or a lot more power, rod tarry saff just hits 200 in a standing mile and he has narrow tyres, its just with nos he has over 900hp

Been following this with loads of interest - it's an awesome project!

thanks very much

I've got to laugh at a lot of the replies in this thread

YOU'LL NEVAR BE ABALL TO DO IT OH NOE!!!111

Fact is, people have been running 200+mph on the salt in 1920's, 1930's and 1940's kit for years, loaded up with lead weights to hold them on the white stuff and a pile of power up front to make sure it gets up there. There are even guys who drive the car to the salt, switch the axle ratio and run 200 and drive home again. I reckon you can do it and good luck

id love to go to bonnieville, just to watch them run, i wouldnt fancy running though, wheelspin at 200mph would make my bum chew a hole in the seat!

This sounds like an awesome project - will be watching with interest. Good luck.

I may have missed it but have you got a date set in your head for the attempt?

well im not 100% sure yet, im thinking it will be october time as that gives me time to get the money together and finalise everything, plus the weather should be cooler which will help with temps

 

[turbotoaster]

well bit of a small random update today, since i got the apexi ecu ive just celotaped it to where my pocket pc is on the left hand side of the gearstick, this was just to monitor is on friday while i top up with fuel and let the ecu learn the idle.

The issue was that it was so far away from my line of sight that i had to take my eyes well away from the road to monitor it, now after neally driving into a curb last night while watching my knock readings i decided its better to look for something to attach it to sooner rather than later.

Ill also need it for my top speed runs and i dont want to be looking away from the tarmac for that

So i theres the r magic power fc holder from japan but they are £50 and thats a lot for just a piece of plastic, so i started looking at the commander and thought, well its the shape of a phone, why dont i just get a phone holder.

so i started searching the net for one, i found a few that attach to the windscreen but didnt fancy that as people might think its a sat nav and smash my car open when i go to tesco etc.

then i saw the ones that fit to your air vents, better i thought so i sat in the car and looked straight head to see if the vents were in my eye line, not quite.


so i looked at my dash, and thought where is the best place to put it, well i dont smoke and where the cigarette lighter would be good.

so i sat and made a little design on a scrap piece of paper and commited to making myself one during this week.

Anyway i was walking around tesco today and walked past the mobile phone part, decided to have a quick look and what do you know, they had the perfect thing.

Also as an added bonus they reduced them down from £6.84 to £1.99!!

So snapped it up and took it home.

first things first, cut of the little charger cable that i dont need.

where fag lighter is

attached commander to holder

plug into fag lighter and adjust height

check visability...seems good

turn lights on for night mode

a day full on win it seems.

anything that helps me stay in budget is a good day for me

 

[turbotoaster]

Very few cars hit 200mph at Brunters, you will need not only to have lots of horses but a quick entry speed onto the straight to see 200mph. Dangerous will know better, but I think Leon's RUF was pushing 700bhp and that hit 211mph, perhaps more but then that's a RUF with 'proper' horses. Seeing it pull away from an SLR 722 demonstrates what I mean about proper horses. Having said that, the MRC tuned S4 was around 650bhp when I saw it and that was seeing 200mph through the trap so it is very feasible. That car today has 850bhp.

yeh i read up on leons car a lot to see what he had done and watched a few videos of how he takes the bottom corner as he claimed to have give him better final top speed.

He did 206mph with 650bhp and 650ft/lb so ill have more power and less weight than him but he will have more torque so it should be a fair comparison, im not expecting 206mph though

The list of exotica and big money cars that can't do 200mph at Brunters is impressive, the sort of grunt required is probably best left to a 520d or S-Max, so if he does do it, it will be remarkable given the budget. I don't think the corner exit/entry will make much of a difference, it does save on a hard launch though.

Not sure if a downpipe exiting by the drivers door will get past the db level though?

well ive been thinking about doing it at RAF woodbridge as there are no noise limits and the distance is the same, we shall see, they dont db test the vehicle when you turn up, as far as im aware but they will probbaly tell me off once they here it going down the runway, to be fair i doubt they will have a company car quick enough to catch me to tell me to go home if im going for 200mph

this thread is awesome! i hope it all goes well for you. just wondering, are you going to give the rx7 a lick of paint? or are you going to just keep it red?

nah, not gonna bother painting it, the paint is fine, it could do with a detail to bring it to its best but overall its not to bad

 

[turbotoaster]

Just out of interest what is your 'background' with cars? Any racing, track days, previous builds or interesting projects? Seems like a massive project for a novice to jump into and you seem clued up enough to have tinkered with a few bits before!

ive built a few cars over the years for myself, got into drag racing, karting, few track days when money allowed just the usual things like that.

Then got into building engines myself, couple of cosworth engines, forged a 300zx engine mostly for friends and myself, did a couple of projects, put a hayabusa engine in the back of a fiat cinquento and a big power r5 turbo

Would this be the white reno 5 turbo toaster?

that would be me, do we know each other?

 

[turbotoaster]

haha rob, dont worry about it, its all good fun, this thread seems to chug along very nicely, plus its fun to talk about it from people not into rotarys, they might come out with fresh ideas i never thought about

 

[turbotoaster]

cool, what sort of power are you putting out, turbo or supercharged vr6 engine i presume?