National insurance cut

[Devilman]

The Tories haven't done a great job agreed but some don't see Labour being any better really. No great mystery in that.

I do like the use of "No great mystery in that" to attempt to paint both sides as "as bad as each other". (Or maybe it just demonstrates the level of disconnect the average Tory supporter has from reality)

While I will freely admit both sides have their issues, Labour have never, ever, shown this level of incompetence and blatant disregard for the general public and the public services we pay for.

 

[tonys]

I do like the use of "No great mystery in that" to attempt to paint both sides as "as bad as each other". It's just not reality though, is it?

While I will freely admit both sides have their issues, Labour have never, ever, shown this level of incompetence and blatant disregard for the general public and the public services we pay for.

Not yet admittedly

 

[Devilman]

Not yet admittedly

So then why the need for "but Labour!" ?

We've seen what the Tories have done to the country and it's services, how they have treated the public with total disdain and used every opportunity to funnel vast sums of money into the pockets of their friends.

Surely at this point - and with the acknowledgement that Labour have "not yet admittedly" shown this level of incompetence or disdain for the public, It's time to stop being scared of the "Labour Boogeyman" who thus far have "not yet, admittedly" been remotely as repugnant as the Tory party in recent years?

How can you really hold the position that Labour would be worse?

 

[tonys]

So then why the need for "but Labour!" ?

We've seen what the Tories have done to the country and it's services, how they have treated the public with total disdain and used every opportunity to funnel vast sums of money into the pockets of their friends.

Surely at this point - and with the acknowledgement that Labour have "not yet admittedly" shown this level of incompetence or disdain for the public, It's time to stop being scared of the "Labour Boogeyman" who thus far have "not yet, admittedly" been remotely as repugnant as the Tory party in recent years?

How can you really hold the position that Labour would be worse?

The "but Labour " is what the Tories will cry just the same as Labour crying "but Tories" I do hope that isn't to simple for you, as I do like simplicity.
I don't know how Labour will be until they get in, but I do seem to be a pessimistic old fart

 

[Devilman]

The "but Labour " is what the Tories will cry just the same as Labour crying "but Tories" I do hope that isn't to simple for you, as I do like simplicity.
I don't know how Labour will be until they get in, but I do seem to be a pessimistic old fart

The majority of the population are not shouting "But Tories!!" because they are staunch labour supporters, but because of the 14 years of ineptitude, incompetence and corruption that has been the Tory Party.

 

[tonys]

The majority of the population are not shouting "But Tories!!" because they are staunch labour supporters, but because of the 14 years of ineptitude, incompetence and corruption that has been the Tory Party.

That's not quite my point, Tories bemoan Labour and vis versa. I'm not on about the floating voters

 

[Devilman]

That's not quite my point, Tories bemoan Labour and vis versa. I'm not on about the floating voters

Aaah ok apologies, I read it somewhat differently to the way you perhaps intended

I agree those steadfast supporters (on either side) will always "But <the other>" and normally I would agree with them tbh.

I would be the first to say "They're all as bad as each other, you get screwed whoever is in power"

But this time it really does seem different. The Tories have taken things so far beyond the pale, The shouts of "But Labour!" (As if they would be / are as bad) From Tory Supporters seem truly dishonest.

 

[tonys]

Aaah ok apologies, I read it somewhat differently to the way you perhaps intended

I agree those steadfast supporters (on either side) will always "But <the other>" and normally I would agree with them tbh.

I would be the first to say "They're all as bad as each other, you get screwed whoever is in power"

But this time it really does seem different. The Tories have taken things so far beyond the pale, The shouts of "But Labour!" (As if they would be / are as bad) From Tory Supporters seem truly dishonest.

No problem, I'm abit like my dad, who would start talking about something half way through what he wanted you to do.
I agree and it's nice to hear someone thinks that they are both as bad as each other. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[EvilRob]

Sure, but can we ensure the lower income households are able to afford food, shelter and heating before we look at giving tax breaks to the better off?

This is the popular opinion every time tax decisions have been made and this short term thinking has led to the current ridiculous situation. It doesn't pay to get ahead in this country. That's ultimately a bad thing.
What's better for the economy: everyone in the 60% effective tax rate overpaying into their pensions and retiring early, or taking income instead, paying more tax, and working for longer?

 

[aspiring]

Because the last 14 years has been such a triumphant success under Tory Leadership, right?

There's always someone to shout "But Labour!"

lol in the 14 years we had once in a generation events

Cannot blame tories for war in ukraine ane a pandemic

 

[Mr Badger]

This is the popular opinion every time tax decisions have been made and this short term thinking has led to the current ridiculous situation. It doesn't pay to get ahead in this country. That's ultimately a bad thing.
What's better for the economy: everyone in the 60% effective tax rate overpaying into their pensions and retiring early, or taking income instead, paying more tax, and working for longer?

You surely don't believe that tax has never been cut for higher earners and that tax changes always benefit lower income houses? That's not even true for current events in the UK.

 

[Mr Badger]

lol in the 14 years we had once in a generation events

Cannot blame tories for war in ukraine ane a pandemic

Stuff happens. What should matter is how the government of the day deals with it. Of course that has never seemed to stop anyone from blaming Labour for the impact of the global financial crisis.

 

[tonys]

Stuff happens. What should matter is how the government of the day deals with it. Of course that has never seemed to stop anyone from blaming Labour for the impact of the global financial crisis.

I thought everyone blames Thatcher for that

 

[EvilRob]

You surely don't believe that tax has never been cut for higher earners and that tax changes always benefit lower income houses? That's not even true for current events in the UK.

I said it was the popular opinion, why are you trying to put words in my mouth?

 

[Mr Badger]

I said it was the popular opinion, why are you trying to put words in my mouth?

In response to:

Sure, but can we ensure the lower income households are able to afford food, shelter and heating before we look at giving tax breaks to the better off?

You wrote:

This is the popular opinion every time tax decisions have been made and this short term thinking has led to the current ridiculous situation. It doesn't pay to get ahead in this country. That's ultimately a bad thing.
What's better for the economy: everyone in the 60% effective tax rate overpaying into their pensions and retiring early, or taking income instead, paying more tax, and working for longer?

If you don't actually believe that higher earners are treated unfairly for tax, what point were you making?

 

[EvilRob]

If you don't actually believe that higher earners are treated unfairly for tax, what point were you making?

The points in my original post. I do believe higher earners are treated unfairly, although the more important points are that it doesn't pay to get ahead and that our tax policy can have inverse from intended consequences.
That's not the same as "believe that tax has never been cut for higher earners and that tax changes always benefit lower income houses".

 

[Mr Badger]

The points in my original post.

I'm still not sure how you jumped from my initial comment to asking if I really believe "tax has never been cut for higher earners and that tax changes always benefit lower income houses?".

You said the view that we should "ensure the lower income households are able to afford food, shelter and heating before we look at giving tax breaks to the better off" was "the popular opinion every time tax decisions have been made and this short term thinking has led to the current ridiculous situation. It doesn't pay to get ahead in this country."

If you don't believe that higher earners are penalised in favour of lower income households, what is your point?

 

[EvilRob]

If you don't believe that higher earners are penalised in favour of lower income households, what is your point?

Are you broken? Even if I believe that, that's not the same as "tax has never been cut for higher earners and that tax changes always benefit lower income houses?".

 

[Mr Badger]

Are you broken? Even if I believe that, that's not the same as "tax has never been cut for higher earners and that tax changes always benefit lower income houses?".

This is getting boring. If you are trying to make a different point then just do so rather than going around in circles. I simply responded to your post which stated:

This is the popular opinion every time tax decisions have been made and this short term thinking has led to the current ridiculous situation. It doesn't pay to get ahead in this country. That's ultimately a bad thing.
What's better for the economy: everyone in the 60% effective tax rate overpaying into their pensions and retiring early, or taking income instead, paying more tax, and working for longer?

 

[EvilRob]

Please find

This is getting boring. If you are trying to make a different point then just do so rather than going around in circles. I simply responded to your post which stated:

Popular opinion obviously isn't the same as implemented policy. I think I made my points pretty clearly and I'm not sure why you tried to make up some weird straw man with them.