I think it would be wholly unfair for the generation in power to instate national service for young people when they never had to do it themselves. Unless of course you are volunteering for a 12 month break from work in order to complete yours?
Poll: National service not a bad thing?
- Thread starter easyrider
- Start date
Soldato
- Joined
- 6 Sep 2016
- Posts
- 10,611
Would be good as a team building thing, but nothing to do with conflict. Get kids taught to do things, like engineering, etc.
But of course it should be paid, and not "do this for 40 hours a week or you lose your benefits" and "we'll pay you £50 a week" slavery.
But of course it should be paid, and not "do this for 40 hours a week or you lose your benefits" and "we'll pay you £50 a week" slavery.
Soldato
- Joined
- 1 Apr 2009
- Posts
- 9,952
It really depends what you do there.
For me, a waste of 10 months, besides renewing my hatred for authoritarianism, and the general patriotic mindset of military life. You don't really feel the 'love' for your country while being constantly ordered around and treated you like scum.
Doesn't have to be that though. My father went on teaching in Ivory Coast (Bouaké, not doing so well these days). A much better way to spend you compulsory time of servitude to the state.
Some people go on work for social services, or other services like schools, various public departments doing menial stuff. The lucky ones, fire-fighting with Daddy, but these are the exceptions.
Realistically, when you consider the general mass young people who aren't really trained or skilled at anything, they just get thrown into conscript life in the ass-end of the country or on a boat, then it is just basically prison / boy scout / slave labor. Or at least feels that way. It doesn't teach you discipline, if anything, you quickly begin to resent the entire system.
If you really want to, you can actually learn something. Many used the opportunity to get their driver's, or even a truck licence Or become a mechanic, and start towards that career. And why not, learning skills is usually expensive, and driving or wrenching on a truck in the infantry is kind of a dream job considering the alternative. But again, mostly the exception (or the lucky daddy's boys).
Hell, even join the military (it can be a good career if you don't mind the BS), but as a general concept, it would be best for everyone if it was in some way voluntary, enticed with some benefits.
And besides, conscription is INSANELY expensive, prone to many abuse, and doesn't make for good for soldiers, let alone citizens. It can be, but I found that forcing professionals who don't want to waste their time with people who don't want to be there to be counter-productive.
It's a different story if you have a 'hot' border, but then, you tend to have a more compliant and willing citizenry.
For me, a waste of 10 months, besides renewing my hatred for authoritarianism, and the general patriotic mindset of military life. You don't really feel the 'love' for your country while being constantly ordered around and treated you like scum.
Doesn't have to be that though. My father went on teaching in Ivory Coast (Bouaké, not doing so well these days). A much better way to spend you compulsory time of servitude to the state.
Some people go on work for social services, or other services like schools, various public departments doing menial stuff. The lucky ones, fire-fighting with Daddy, but these are the exceptions.
Realistically, when you consider the general mass young people who aren't really trained or skilled at anything, they just get thrown into conscript life in the ass-end of the country or on a boat, then it is just basically prison / boy scout / slave labor. Or at least feels that way. It doesn't teach you discipline, if anything, you quickly begin to resent the entire system.
If you really want to, you can actually learn something. Many used the opportunity to get their driver's, or even a truck licence Or become a mechanic, and start towards that career. And why not, learning skills is usually expensive, and driving or wrenching on a truck in the infantry is kind of a dream job considering the alternative. But again, mostly the exception (or the lucky daddy's boys).
Hell, even join the military (it can be a good career if you don't mind the BS), but as a general concept, it would be best for everyone if it was in some way voluntary, enticed with some benefits.
And besides, conscription is INSANELY expensive, prone to many abuse, and doesn't make for good for soldiers, let alone citizens. It can be, but I found that forcing professionals who don't want to waste their time with people who don't want to be there to be counter-productive.
It's a different story if you have a 'hot' border, but then, you tend to have a more compliant and willing citizenry.
Soldato
- Joined
- 6 Sep 2016
- Posts
- 10,611
Could be done more of a "camping holiday, meet new friends and learning to do things which'll help you in life" rather than "being shouted at to do endless repetitive exercises and drills"
Soldato
Get a job or do a service would be better. I think everyone on job seekers should do littler picking. Even if it's for a few hours a week.
10 hours at £7.25 = weeks benifit (rough sums)
10 hours at £7.25 = weeks benifit (rough sums)
Commissario
Older people will say yes, younger people will say no.
I know that's quite a generalisation but I'd wager it's accurate.
I know that's quite a generalisation but I'd wager it's accurate.
Soldato
- Joined
- 6 Sep 2016
- Posts
- 10,611
Only if it's paid as a real job, not "work for your benefits" otherwise it's open to abuse.
Or get the job center to do their job...they are now useless and don't help those out of work.
Cue quotes from ancient Greeks complaining about the youth of ~400BC.
I have spoken to a few young people who are bored...
They cant get a job, have little money and and feel confused and angry...
They would relish some kind of Path for a while...
Having said that they are all still annoying little !"£$%
And 12 months later they're probably back to square one, national service isn't necessarily going to get them a job especially if everyone starts to have it on their CV.
Soldato
I served my engineering apprenticeship in the R.A.F. It paved the way for me to get other jobs once I'd served my time. I'd recommend military service to anyone who doesn't get into a university. I think national service would benefit a lot of people.
Caporegime
It would benefit those who do very little about their own situation massively imo, having a routine and discipline alone will do those people wonders.
However, for people who already have a path it's a 12 month set back and something that likely wouldn't benefit their career much if at all.
However, for people who already have a path it's a 12 month set back and something that likely wouldn't benefit their career much if at all.
Suspended
And to learn some discipline, self-reliance, to be part of something bigger and more important than themselves. It's a good idea. I approve.
Soldato
Or a 'military focused' exercise. It should mean different things to different people and it should be flexible and non-authoritarian. It should be about teamwork, about contributing to society, learning tolerance and understanding, meeting people outside your class circle, giving young people something to feel proud of.
Suspended
I disagree. It should be authoritarian and should be military only.
Soldato
For what purpose?
Man of Honour
The famous one is, unfortunately, a false attribution of text written about 100 years ago.
It's not wholly fake, though, as the writer ~100 years ago was referring to complaints apparently made in ancient Greece. Supposedly, he'd just clumped them together. The core "the youth of today are crap, not like in the past" idea has been around for a very long time.
How many of the people who think that "the youth" should be forced to serve the state would impose it on everyone, including themselves? If they only impose servitude on "the youth", they're doing it as a punishment of young adults for being young...and that's entirely about them, not the young adults and not the country.