Poll: National service not a bad thing?

[easyrider]

Why is that? It's entirely possible for people to see the world in a less pleasant or darker way. Other people in the thread have made comments about abusive situations: these would certainly change your view of the world but not in a good way.

There is a case for that in any scenario...Not just National Service....We get this is schools, Religion, the work place anywhere....Life is unpleasant. And living it with blinkers on in a world of deluded self gratification is not healthy.

Just because some people do it doesn't mean all people do. I see plenty of adults doing these things, and I see plenty of young people who are actually doing useful work. You're making massive generalisations which undoubtedly apply to some people but not all people.

I said not all in my post.

First of all I don't think there's a useful argument in there because it could be used to justify literally anything. Don't like having to pay *all* of your wages in tax? "Aww Diddums....We all have to do things in life we don't want to...Its part of growing up.". It's a non-argument.

12 month service is not a life of tax paying in a job you hate....Its not a big commitment.

Second, there is usually a reason why we have to do things we don't like. Taxes pay for infrastructure, the NHS etc., and working a job (usually) helps society to function in some way in reward for money to pay for the necessities of life. For many people I'd bet there would be no meaningful benefit to a year of national service, you'd simply be holding them back a year from what they actually want to be doing.

Like what would they be doing? They could be doing something to help society rather than flipping burgers to line the pockets of the multi nationals and buy stuff they don't need...They could actually be learning a skill... what could be more useful than that?

Like I said I don't doubt that some people would benefit from it, but making entire year groups do it because some people would benefit? There's not a lot of sense to that and there's no guarantee at all it would make the person a more productive member of society.

a lot of todays youth have low self esteem and this manifests itself in social media insecurity and not finding ones own place in the world.

Having a purpose is psychologically proven to benefit human beings...

 

[Eddie182]

It's a difficult one, like many who had a career in th forces, it made me into who I am and without it I'd not had got the skills and knowledge I have (which are rarther highly sought after).

However I can also say that there is no way in hell I'd have wanted to be working with anyone on national service in any role I had over my time. Especially when deployed.

You can't deploy such people and remain effective as they won't have anywhere near the training regulars or long time reserves have, unless they were kept to basic branches such as drivers and other logistics roles. And infantry would be a no go, as it'd be less than worthless at giving people anything to help them in life, and forcing people into ththe infantry also wouldn't do any good for the effective of the force either.

So in short I think some form of national service would be a good thing, but, it shouldn't be limited to the military. It also should allow people with clear goals, such as getting a proper degree, to do so.

Perhaps a mix of service with various government agencies, such as the environment agency, police, and others. And specific military roles for those qualified/willing to become qualified.

 

[stewski]

Bit of a generalisation. Abuse happens everywhere and I would argue the majority I witness is within social peer groups.




Elaborate

Says the poster who typifies the youth of today blah blah blah?
What experience working with the youth of today do you base this on?

 

[easyrider]

The freedoms you have today were paid for by people willing to what you would not it seems.

See what I mean?

Deluded young people with no idea what makes the world tick.

 

[easyrider]

I voted no, I have no desire to do it myself and wouldn't dream of making others do it.

I would never fight in any sort of war for this country either, those who have benefitted most from society can do that or the place can go to hell in a hand basket.

You are aware of the world wars I take it?

 

[hornetstinger]

You are aware of the world wars I take it?

WW II is not the same as those fighting in the middle east. Not in the slightest.

My grandparents fought in WW II, but no way in hell would I fight in recent conflicts. It's about the oil and helping out one countries agenda, and not "defending" this country.

 

[Usher]

Who is going to pay for it?

Immigrants, apparently they solve all our problems

 

[Art]

There is a case for that in any scenario...Not just National Service.

Your original comment was "A new perspective on life can only be a good thing no?", so you agree with me that no, a new perspective doesn't necessarily have to be a good thing?

I said not all in my post.

So why the desire to force all into national service?

12 month service is not a life of tax paying in a job you hate....Its not a big commitment.

It's a big commitment for people who will gain nothing. That's a year of experience in a job or of education lost for no benefit.

They could be doing something to help society rather than flipping burgers to line the pockets of the multi nationals and buy stuff they don't need...They could actually be learning a skill... what could be more useful than that?

Again, you're making generalised statements. What about the young people who have jobs lined up, who want to go into an apprenticeship or want to do a degree? Why would national service be more useful than that? Just because some people might benefit doesn't mean it makes sense to force all people to do it.

a lot of todays youth have low self esteem and this manifests itself in social media insecurity and not finding ones own place in the world.

Having a purpose is psychologically proven to benefit human beings...

Again, while that might help some people it is useless for those who do have self esteem and a plan for their future, while there is absolutely no guarantee temporary national service will fix this in people who don't. It would be far better to spend the money on a system which picks up the people who need help and tries to find them a permanent career, rather than forcing everyone into a year of "service" which then spits them out and leaves them to their own devices.

 

[Efour]

no thanks i don't want every member of a society trained to kill each other.

national service is a tool used to control the working class.

as Eddie182 says proffesionals and people forced into service are not compatible and its probably more of a risk to both

 

[easyrider]

Your original comment was "A new perspective on life can only be a good thing no?", so you agree with me that no, a new perspective doesn't necessarily have to be a good thing?

Apart from the obvious. national service would not damage anyone...

So why the desire to force all into national service?

Its only fair.

It's a big commitment for people who will gain nothing. That's a year of experience in a job or of education lost for no benefit.

Many take a year out before university...And employers would probably relish a young apprentice after national service.

Again, you're making generalised statements. What about the young people who have jobs lined up, who want to go into an apprenticeship or want to do a degree? Why would national service be more useful than that? Just because some people might benefit doesn't mean it makes sense to force all people to do it.

As I said :

Many take a year out before university...And employers would probably relish a young apprentice after national service.

Again, while that might help some people it is useless for those who do have self esteem and a plan for their future, while there is absolutely no guarantee temporary national service will fix this in people who don't. It would be far better to spend the money on a system which picks up the people who need help and tries to find them a permanent career, rather than forcing everyone into a year of "service" which then spits them out and leaves them to their own devices.

Thats overly complicated. You state "spits them out" Why would that be the case after meeting new people, learning a trade, understanding life more.

sitting on the dole waiting for a handout is being spat upon...No my idea for National Service is better.

 

[easyrider]

no thanks i don't want every member of a society trained to kill each other.

national service is a tool used to control the working class.

No

Capitalism is.

national service could mean many things...Not just Military training...The army and forces dont jyst kill people you know? They help with Natural disasters etc...

 

[aardvark]

how about a different way - how about a year in NHS service, community service, something like that??

 

[Nevakonaza]

I think it would be good,I mean when a lot of kids leave school at 17 some go on to do not a fat lot,Cant get jobs..or go to collage/uni and train for a job they cant get after anyway because there isn't any lol.

A years national service wouldn't do them bad i think,learn them respect,A few new skills etc.

 

[bloodiedathame]

It would ease some pressure on professional soldiers for a start, but on a personal level it's incredibly beneficial. And generally very fun too. The bonds you form are very different also - quite unique. It's a win/win for the state and the individual IMHO.

I don't think teaching people to kill for the government is the brightest idea in the world.

 

[stewski]

Are we are redefining "National Service" into something like Cuban style, communistic social service as opposed to firearms/military training for all youngsters?

 

[Art]

national service would not damage anyone...

You can't possibly know that. You can't possibly know that nobody will have a significantly negative experience over an entire year doing something they quite possibly didn't want to do in the first place.

Its only fair.

In that it's unfair to everyone? It makes no sense to make everyone take a year out of thier life for a system which may help some people but not everyone.

Many take a year out before university...And employers would probably relish a young apprentice after national service.

If everyone does national service it rapidly becomes normal, not a CV selling point (just look at A Levels/degrees). Besides, many people don't take a year out before university, and of those that do they often do genuine work which contributes to their later career (I've worked with plenty of undergrads who have taken science-related years out. One spent time working in Africa on the ebola crisis response before starting his PhD). What would national service achieve that a year in work wouldn't?

Thats overly complicated.

Sometimes targeted complexity is a good thing. It prevents people who don't need assistance getting bogged down in a system which they don't need and which probably won't help them.

You state "spits them out" Why would that be the case after meeting new people, learning a trade, understanding life more.

But what happens after that year? If they had no job before they'll have no job now. Sure, they might have a few more skills and contacts, but that's not something which couldn't have happened outside of national service.

sitting on the dole waiting for a handout is being spat upon...No my idea for National Service is better.

And what proportion of young people are "sitting on the dole waiting for a handout"? And what about the young people who aren't? Your idea for national service is a pointlessly broad brush for a group of people with plenty of fine detail.

 

[CaptainComedy]

The proposed solution wasn't described very well.

put up a suggestion
didn't give a valid reason
didn't state any method

In a general scope, this is not a good idea, a childs education is very intense, a year out can be critical to some. My sister took a year out when my dad died and she went from an A student to a C.

Painting everyone with the same brush is an extreme approach to a one sided problem.

If there is always going to be a low paid worker, there is always going to be a chav on a bus and always going to be someone rude.

No
national service could mean many things...Not just Military training...The army and forces dont jyst kill people you know? They help with Natural disasters etc...

Sending children who are irresponsible, inexperienced, inappropriate to disaster zones? care for the elderly? These are terrible ideas.

Disaster zones: They will be scared, emotionally and potentially physically scarred
Elderly: They need to be qualified and a year in a low funded government service is not going to give them anywhere near the knowledge they need to look after the elderly.
Community service: We already have criminals doing this, do you really want to paint our future generations with the same brush?

A year of national service is nothing and I wouldn't condone anything more as it would be detriment to their education.

This is coming from an E/F grade high schooler, a C grade college student and a upper 2:1 university post grad, who has managed a team of software developers.

Had I been painted with that brush, I'd never gotten past high school.

TLDR: No.

 

[Tefal]

I assume we'd cut all the old peoples pensions to pay for it?


Also what do you do with those that refuse to do it?

Pur them in prison?

 

[Roar87]

You do realise people have been saying the younger generation has no respect, etc, for thousands of years? It's called being young. They'll grow up and then they'll be saying the same thing about the next generation. It's life.

 

[waspy88]

Seems to be a lot of millennial bashing going around..

Has any generation before them created so many young billionaires? People in their mid 20s and 30s are commanding $100-500,000 salaries, and even in the UK software devs, architects, investment analysts are earning hundreds of thousands of pounds.

Of course in every generation there are the wasteful pointless ones, but you had the punks in the 80s, the emo/goth types in the 90s..

Old methods of putting in hard work and graft are applicable for many industries, but there are others where if you create the right product at the right time you become a millionaire / billionaire.

Look at the scale and size of the recent mergers and acquisitions. Whatsapp got purchased for 19BN there were what 100 staff? The economies of scale which existed before for industry don't exist now, the knowledge economy we live in will mean that only the very tech savvy will win. Maybe that scares some..

Just have to move on, and add value another way. We are living in some of the most optimistic times of our lives.. Air Travel is cheap, tons of complicated information we didn't have access to as kids of the 80s are now on youtube, video, music is all at our finger tips. Lets embrace and make the most of it till a mass pandemic of catastrophic proportions wipes us all out