New and shocking footage of British troops torturing Iraqis...

Visage · 13 Feb 2006 at 17:04

Freeman said:
As an untrained civillian your damn right, i think i would, i'd be terrified in a situation like that.

But i was talking more as if i were a trained soldier.

Can't think of the word used to describe that....hmmmm >.<

Would you use a logitech cordless desktop, or possibly the microsoft ergonomic model to hand out these beatings?

Borris · 13 Feb 2006 at 17:05

VIRII said:
Interesting point of view and in stark contrast to the "don't judge all by the actions of a few" that we see when people run around London calling for beheadings.
Are we judging the entire Army for this or just the people caught doing it?

Just the ones doing it (caught or not), and that goes for both the squaddies in Iraq, and the fundamentalist **** screaming for death.

Freeman · 13 Feb 2006 at 17:06

Visage said:
Would you use a logitech cordless desktop, or possibly the microsoft ergonomic model to hand out these beatings?

God no, wireless is not the way to go!

My battery could run out if i used wireless, crazy man.

theleg · 13 Feb 2006 at 17:06

Borris said:
As a soldier, you often find yourself between a rock and a hard place, and if you are a good soldier, you will show restraint. If you're a bad soldier, you will kick the crap out of anyone.

yes because obviously a soldier who loses his restraint will move his victims behind a wall and give them a beating...

Obviously thats what a soldier will do when he loses his cool..

Borris · 13 Feb 2006 at 17:08

Balddog said:
...

I don't understand your post.

Von Smallhausen · 13 Feb 2006 at 17:12

I read the full article in the NOTW today and I found it particularly laughable that it was Chris Ryan who lambasted British troops from his elevated position.

The same Chris Ryan who broke the most sacred code since the Mafia Omerta when he went public about SAS tactics and operations, which was so frowned upon that he was banned from Sterling Lines, never to return for visits, functions or anything.

I wonder how many beatings he has dished out as an elite special forces operative ? I have have little doubt he has beaten prisoners and people under interrogation as the SAS are trained also to glean information from people in the field.

I found his article rank in it's hypocrisy to say the least.

Lt. Manlove · 13 Feb 2006 at 17:14

It didn't sound like Chris Ryan to me.

Von Smallhausen · 13 Feb 2006 at 17:17

Lt. Manlove said:
It didn't sound like Chris Ryan to me.

Well I read it today and it was definitely Chris Ryan who wrote an article about it, saying how disgusted he was with British troops.

Lt. Manlove · 13 Feb 2006 at 17:26

Oh my bad, I misread it...

@if ®afiq · 13 Feb 2006 at 17:30

VIRII said:
Out of interest - what did you feel about the Taliban running Afghanistan. Did you feel that it was right and just that they were running the place? Or did you oppose their "rule" and were you glad that British soldiers went there to get rid of them?

The Taliban were extremley strict in the way they followed Islam, to the point of even going against some of the basic i.e. no compulsion is religion. That being said, they bought the much needed stability to the country, and not to mention the near total erradication of poppy production.

We did not invade because of their brutality, as before 9/11 we were busy trying to negotiate pipeline contracts with them.

VIRII said:
When the Taliban ran over old peoples legs in tanks for owning a TV was that ok with you?

Any sources for this? I know they beat people, but not this tanks thing. And what kind of question is it that??

Do you know about the not so recent history of a number of prominent members of the current government? One of them was particulary notorious for strappping afghans to the front of tanks and then blasting them apart. Gulbuddin Hekmatyer (sp?) is the name that springs to mind.

VIRIII said:
Would you prefer it if Saddam had been left in charge?

I would prefer it if the Iraqi people could dictate their own lives.

It's funny you should mention that as after GW1, the Shi'ite uprising was both encouraged and at the same time helped to be put down by the US government becuase what they wanted was not a populist leader but an "iron fisted junta". I also read an article a week or so ago in which the ex chief of Shin Beth (sp?) stated that he would have preferred Saddam to the madness that they have now. Go figure eh?

@if ®afiq · 13 Feb 2006 at 17:34

Visage said:
Would you use a logitech cordless desktop, or possibly the microsoft ergonomic model to hand out these beatings?

lol

cleanbluesky · 13 Feb 2006 at 17:39

@if ®afiq said:
The Taliban were extremley strict in the way they followed Islam, to the point of even going against some of the basic i.e. no compulsion is religion. That being said, they bought the much needed stability to the country, and not to mention the near total erradication of poppy production.

@if - I'm curious as to whether you think that the Taliban were overall fair in their use of justice against the citizens of Afghanistan?

I would prefer it if the Iraqi people could dictate their own lives.

Sort of like a democracy?

Mr Joshua · 13 Feb 2006 at 17:40

They threw stones (allegedly) and got a bit of a kicking, cause and effect.

I do, however, find it totally unbelievable that there are still numb nuts in our forces who film/photograph these actions.

dirtydog · 13 Feb 2006 at 17:41

cleanbluesky said:
Sort of like a democracy?

Well that isn't what they have now is it, if that's what you're implying. Nor will there ever be a government in charge which the US doesn't approve of.

Dingo · 13 Feb 2006 at 17:42

@if ®afiq said:
Homosexuality is illegal under Islamic Law as is beating unarmed civilians.

Um, without being rude you may wish to revisit the Qu'an, particularly this bit;

Verse 4.34
Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

an Islamic riot is dealt with like this in Egypt
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=17229

and this is a doozy
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1336559/posts

http://www.worthynews.com/christian-persecution/pakistani-student-dies.html

Shouldn't throw stones whilst living in a glass house!

cleanbluesky · 13 Feb 2006 at 17:47

Let me field this one...

1) Islam is perfect

2) People are bad

Once you understand these two concepts, it all becomes pretty obvious that no blame can be put upon the book

@if ®afiq · 13 Feb 2006 at 17:50

cleanbluesky said:
@if - I'm curious as to whether you think that the Taliban were overall fair in their use of justice against the citizens of Afghanistan?

Ofcourse not. But it was far better than what they have now and what they will have withint the next 5-10 years. Not all of the Taliban where extreme, there were moderates amongt them - I believe the firegin minister is now in the current government?

CBS said:
Sort of like a democracy?

Democracy cannot be forced.

singist · 13 Feb 2006 at 17:55

Certain parallels here ....

Cartoons published years ago get rehashed; the whole moslim world goes ape **** ... despite the fact that 90% of the ******** are illiterate and wouldn't understand them even IF they had ever seen them. Result .. people die.

Video taken years ago gets published by a **** British rag; the liberal tree huggers go ape **** ... despite the fact that 90% are literate and educated. Result .. people will die.

Don't know who said earlier ... something about "these people representing our country"..... F me! it's not the sodding olympics here; these sort of things, and very much worse, have been going on (in your/my/our name) for ever: it's war. (yeah, I know) Good BBC peice here

Civilians eh? ..... as none of the cowardly Iraqi/Insurgents seem to actually want to put a uniform on, so it must be a bit tricky picking out the good guys from the bad guys, until they reveal themselves by attacking you.

As for why we're there ..... yup.....oil; not SH, not weapons of mass detruction, not any other spurious reason ....just OIL.

Slam62 · 13 Feb 2006 at 18:02

Bring back hanging, Iraq needs a strong leader to discipline the locals, squadies should be thrashed with a very nasty stick if they even swear or dont polish their shoes. Anyway, when the oil runs out we wont give a castlemain.
Democracy is forced on me, our society is the most controlled in the world except um all the other bad ones which are controled more.
I thought people got the news of the world because it was a comic you dont actually believe the stuff in it do you its all fiction, even the authors.
Has anyone suggested tellimg the soldiers to say please dont throw stones, is a camcorder part of official kil or did the notw guy just happen to drop it next to the incredibly dum soldier. So many questions it could be a conspiracy maybe they are really actors. Anyway its surprising they couldnt get a topless bird to pose in the background core!!!! suits you sir.

Do you know what all you really need is love ---- or a life is the notw the new core -- raan ding dong

@if ®afiq · 13 Feb 2006 at 18:05

Dingo said:
Um, without being rude you may wish to revisit the Qu'an, particularly this bit;

Verse 4.34
Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

I don't know what my religion has got to do with this thread but I'm not one to shy away from a discussion. Below are three different translations to that Verse:

[i said:
004.034[/i]]
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

FYI, and anyone else who likes quoting random verses. This University of Southern California site is very good for reading both the Qur'an and the Traditions of the Prophet Muhammed. I would recommend that you bookmark it, but of course you can still use those random sites if you want.

Dingo said:
...more hidden attacks...

What have those links got to do with what has happened.

Do I live in those countries? I am a British citizen and those are British soldiers. I will criticise the country I live in first and foremost - that is my right.

If I was an Egyption then Egyption actions would be my priority...unless it's all this "your bothers" thing again?