New Canon full frame?

James J said:
Sigh we should all just agree to disagree to be honest. Theres no arguing with some people and I'm not a fan of ignorance either.

Its quite clear that theres a divide on here thats as bad as the graphics card forum with people who will blindly defend their purchases due to the amount of money they cost. Too few of us are actually objective and used BOTH systems properly, so the arguing is utterly pointless as its just linking reviews and videos from people who try and justify their opinions with other peoples :S

I'm out anyway. Sad to see the forum in this state -.-
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I wonder why we never get same argument about teh d700, d800 or even the newly 5d3's af.

its soo damm clear that the 5d2 af focus is not good for many users and fellow togs.

Go and make the same debate in any other forum and it will be the exact same discussion. Now go **** off the af on teh d700/d800/5d3 and watch your threads become none existant within days of no one replying as clearly there is nothing to argue about in those camera's.
 
Ksanti said:
It's only been provoked by An Exception's recent vendetta against it. We've all been comfortable saying the AF is the main weakpoint of the 5D2, but it's not a dealbreaker for 99% given the lenses it allows the use of, its resolution, and its video performance.

That's not the same logic at all. The point I was making is that plenty of professional photographers make their living with the 5D2, i.e. have chosen it as the best possible piece of equipment for their photography with their budget. You can only make that judgement of the iphone compared to other phones, and from the iphone 4 onwards the camera has been pretty good, and its main asset is its convenience.

If it was just because it was cheaper than the 1DS3, and the 5D2 was as much of a turd as An Exception makes it out to be, you'd have seen many more D700 portrait photographers. The D700 was its rival, and from general impressions and a quick look around for figures on the internet, the 5D2 outsold the D700 almost 10 to 1, even taking into account the high-end consumer users of the 5D2 due to it's MP count and spec sheet, the 5D2 was far more popular with professionals than the D700, and that's a fact.
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5d2 sold more probably because it was one of the first dslr to have a workable pro video functionality that can be used by pro's and the d700 diddnt.

So toss in the fact that many video pro's bought this camera instead of the d700 would also boost the sale numbers
 
jonneymendoza said:
I wonder why we never get same argument about teh d700, d800 or even the newly 5d3's af.

its soo damm clear that the 5d2 af focus is not good for many users and fellow togs.

Go and make the same debate in any other forum and it will be the exact same discussion. Now go **** off the af on teh d700/d800/5d3 and watch your threads become none existant within days of no one replying as clearly there is nothing to argue about in those camera's.
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Okay seen as you've baited me, I'll bite, even when its against my better judgement so how about the D800 focus issue which is two fold, with one of the outer most points being useless and the separate issues where the focus fails completely in any situation. Hell, how about we look at the D800 viewfinder issues, where the shoddy QC let entire batches of cameras go out with faulty prisms, making EVERY image muddy and impossible to focus on. Theres even the lovely full camera lockup issue as well which also plagues the D4 if you fancy that making the camera nothing but a paperweight.

Its very easy to pick holes in any camera, yet doing so out of bias and being a fanboy, which you quite clearly are, is utterly pathetic. The above is an example of how easy it is to pick faults with even the best of cameras, so cry on about the AF system on the 5D mk ii all you want as the more you do just confirms how ill informed you really are.

ps, his name is Raymond ;)
 
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And don't get a 5D3 because it has exposure problems from the top lcd that are fixed with a bit of tape. 2.5k and they can't even seal it against some light bleed and the fix is some bodge tape ;)
 
dannyjo22 said:
And don't get a 5D3 because it has exposure problems from the top lcd that are fixed with a bit of tape. 2.5k and they can't even seal it against some light bleed and the fix is some bodge tape ;)
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Or just use the viewfinder cover, as mentioned in the manual, to stop light bleed through it whilst in a pitch black room where that would only ever be an issue ;)

In all seriousness though. Thats another good example of an issue with the latest cameras as no camera is perfect. People just can't get over the stupid details though and just concentrate on taking photos or videos!
 
D.P. said:
I can't think of a single 5dMkII wildlife or landscape photographer.
I'm not sure that is a valid argument.

Photographers with a web presence I like the most are Thom Hogan, Bjørn Rørslett, Nasim Mansurov and Moose Peterson - all use Nikons. My favourite photographer of all time, Gallen Rowell used Nikons.

What does that tell you, not much really. :D
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You know that time lapse video that Nikon stole to use on their D800 launch? That guy is a landscape photographer....with a 5D2.

I forgot his name though, but it's good enough, or Nikon PR department certainly think so! :D

But no, it's not really a valid argument, nor it means anything.

You want to know the truth, I don't think or care what another photographer uses, my favourites all use canon and nikon but who gives 2 monkeys' backside? Do they get more respect because they shoot with the same gear as yourself? I'm more intrigue with technique and execution.

Please stop this gear talk, honestly, stop caring about the gear!

jonneymendoza said:
Quite ironic that reymond has a 5d3 and may even buy another one. umm
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Ironic? Please elaborate?

I've had one of them for 3 years. Used it on loads of jobs, its paid for itself 10 times over. New and better gear comes put. Its call upgrading.

Are you going to call An Exception ironic when he upgrades from his D700? Seeing how it is amazing and untouchable.

I'll tell you the reason why I get two, it is because I shoot with 2 bodies, I like having identical bodies, I like how I can pick it up without thinking which camera is this and go straight to the buttons. These things save time.
 
James J said:
Okay seen as you've baited me, I'll bite, even when its against my better judgement so how about the D800 focus issue which is two fold, with one of the outer most points being useless and the separate issues where the focus fails completely in any situation. Hell, how about we look at the D800 viewfinder issues, where the shoddy QC let entire batches of cameras go out with faulty prisms, making EVERY image muddy and impossible to focus on. Theres even the lovely full camera lockup issue as well which also plagues the D4 if you fancy that making the camera nothing but a paperweight.

Its very easy to pick holes in any camera, yet doing so out of bias and being a fanboy, which you quite clearly are, is utterly pathetic. The above is an example of how easy it is to pick faults with even the best of cameras, so cry on about the AF system on the 5D mk ii all you want as the more you do just confirms how ill informed you really are.

ps, his name is Raymond ;)
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James J said:
Or just use the viewfinder cover, as mentioned in the manual, to stop light bleed through it whilst in a pitch black room where that would only ever be an issue ;)

In all seriousness though. Thats another good example of an issue with the latest cameras as no camera is perfect. People just can't get over the stupid details though and just concentrate on taking photos or videos!
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You have mentioned things that are bugs that can be fixed. infact the light leek is a none issue on teh 5d3 as canon have fixed it.

Cant fix the outer points on a 5d2 though or add more :D

@raymond. What i am getting is that if teh 5d2 is such an amazing camera where you are getting amazing shots, why did you upgrade? is your 5d2 broken?
 
Diddnt know you was a female photographer.

You have some great shots in your website. nicely done.

i think we should all take a chill pill, relax and get along together now as i am sure none of us would react and talk like this in person. i certainly would not.

Lets get back on topic.

If FF trickles and eventually enters rebel series bodies, will we start to see the likes of a 5d4 or 5d5 using a medium frame sensor?

Are there even MF sensors on DSLR yet?
 
An Exception said:
Yes imo, and I'v been saying this for a while.
The Leica S2 is an example of such a camera.
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New mount, stupidly expensive glass, hell of a lot of glass to focus, no real world advantages.

No. Not happening. Nobody needs bigger sensors than 35mm at the moment in anything but absolute high end fashion and landscape work - IQ is very impressive from those sensors but it's not noticeable at any real world display size except monster 3m gallery prints or ridiculous crops. Sports and wildlife would start needing ridiculously long lenses that just don't exist in medium format. General portraiture won't see any benefits as depth of field doesn't get any shallower moving to MF as its so far proven impossible to get apertures fast enough while keeping IQ up to acceptable standards and sensors like the D800s have all the performance necessary to match them bar apparent sharpness. 35mm sensor noise tech is moving fast enough that before that happens there will be no real noise advantage either (assuming if Canon or Nikon moves into medium format they'd effectively expand their current 35mm sensor tech rather than make Hassy style low-sensitivity, low-noise sensors) by the time Canon gets into a position to put 35mm sensors in rebel cameras.
 
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Ksanti said:
New mount, stupidly expensive glass, hell of a lot of glass to focus, no real world advantages.
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At the moment. There is such a thing as progression, especially once a product can be mass produced, rather than being way way more niche than any Canon or Nikon exotic lens that have big profit margins. As for a new mount, I doubt that's the most expensive aspect.

Ksanti said:
No. Not happening. Nobody needs bigger sensors than 35mm at the moment in anything but absolute high end fashion and landscape work - IQ is very impressive from those sensors but it's not noticeable at any real world display size except monster 3m gallery prints or ridiculous crops. Sports and wildlife would start needing ridiculously long lenses that just don't exist in medium format. General portraiture won't see any benefits as depth of field doesn't get any shallower moving to MF as its so far proven impossible to get apertures fast enough while keeping IQ up to acceptable standards and sensors like the D800s have all the performance necessary to match them bar apparent sharpness. 35mm sensor noise tech is moving fast enough that before that happens there will be no real noise advantage either (assuming if Canon or Nikon moves into medium format they'd effectively expand their current 35mm sensor tech rather than make Hassy style low-sensitivity, low-noise sensors) by the time Canon gets into a position to put 35mm sensors in rebel cameras.
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This is all your opinion, Canon themselves have stated they are not ruling out entering the MF market. There were rumours Sony may enter as well.

Market is saturated, soon it will be way over-saturated. To keep people buying they need to keep giving people reasons to buy.

I'm pretty sure as the price of sensors keeps falling, one major DSLR maker will jump into MF, and when one does, so does the rest. When will it happen? probably not for a long while yet, I expect to see a DX sensor MF first like pentax.

I don't think the size difference needs to be very much tbh. Maybe they can incorporate a mirror-less design and produce bodies/lenses smaller than 35mm gear
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Pentax are already in medium format.

No matter how cheap the sensors can get, decent glass will always be incredibly expensive, and glass is always the majority of the costs of a photographer's gear bar occasionally studio lighting.

As for 'opinions'
1. The difference in IQ is not noticeable until you're inspecting gallery prints or 100% crops. Fact. Human eyes just aren't that good.
2. The longest lens I know of in medium format (645D) is 400mm f/5.6, which is roughly 250mm FF equivalent. That's not long enough to make sports viable and the lens costs £3,000 already. So again, it's a fact that long enough lenses for wildlife and sports don't exist in the MF world.
3. It's a fact that no MF setup exists that gives shallower depth of field in the real world than an 85 at 1.2 or even 1.4. The closest you get is a Haselblad 110mm f/2 which gives a similar image to a 77mm f/1.4, which is close, but then the vast majority of everything else on MF is f/2.8 or slower, and it gets slower a lot faster as you get longer than you get on FF.
4. DXOMark tests have proven the D800 sensor to be more than capable of trouncing current MF cameras (in every area other than cropping/apparent sharpness) and even the D800's dynamic range, colour depth etc. are largely luxuries over other cameras rather than genuine advantages.
5. 35mm cameras can basically shoot in the dark already, fact. At this rate of progress the better noise performance argument for larger sensors will fade away. That's the closest thing to an opinion in the whole argument.
 
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