New car :)

[Vibez]

Its a 3l Petrol Sport. Its quick Just because its fast in a silent and efficent manner.

I agree with what your saying to a degree, but its hardly boring. It doesnt look 'dated' thats only because the new one is out and you see that. Sit it next to a E-class and it still looks great.

I agree it's quick but as you say does it in a discreet fashion which is not particularly exciting.

It's not boring boring, a 1.6 focus is boring but then the opposite of boring is exciting and it's not that either.

It's not a exciting car in any respect, not boring either ( I believe the term I used was "a little boring" ) and a little boring is perhaps the only criticism I have which says a lot about the car. I agree it is a thoroughly efficient, quick, luxurious, stable, safe car and is a very good automobile indeed, I'm not knocking it.

Exciting is not necessarily an important requirement for a car, for me exciting would be a 911 GT3, or more downmarket a stripped out 200sx or impreza turbo. They may be more exciting than a BMW 5 series but for travelling in absolute comfort with good power, economy, safety etc. which is I assume is why anyone would buy a 5, they don't come close and the informed BMW non M car driver would appreciate they are not particularly exciting cars but they are a very good all rounder and to own one, they must value this more than excitement.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Well I've driven lots of cars and my 530i Sport still excites me - its mostly the reason I bought it. It's great fun to throw around A roads with the added bonus that whatever you throw at it, it'll do it with ease. To say it isn't exciting in any respect is just daft - I don't expect you to like it if its not your thing but surely you can avoid the uninformed sweeping generalisation. It's exciting to look at it with it's factory fit M5 bodykit, it's exciting to drive, etc..

I didn't buy it for its cruising ability, more for the fact that no matter what I want to do with it - from a 200 mile drive to a few laps of the Nurburgring, from a trip into town to a blast across deserted Moorland roads, it'll do it with commensurate ease whilst planting a firm smile on my face.

t might be a 4 door saloon but it's still got 230bhp and a simply fantastic RWD chassis - it's not boring. I bet you'd say something like a 330Ci is exciting even though its fundamentally the same only with less doors..

Perhaps you need to drive one rather than get a lift to the shops in your uncles 10 year old 528i SE automatic. Then you might understand.

 

[Vibez]

lol

So the fact your uncle has an old 528i means a 530i Sport is boring, isn't particularly good in the twisties and isn't particularly fast?

Whilst it won't compare to the raw power of your Focus, a car which does 0-100 in 17 seconds and 0-60 in less than 7 isn't 'not particularly fast'.

Don't take it personally, he asked me to elaborate on my opinion and I obliged.

You can compare it to my Focus if you like although I would suggest you are a bit silly for doing so, I certainly didn't and nowhere did I claim my current car is anything but boring

 

[Vibez]

Well I've driven lots of cars and my 530i Sport still excites me - its mostly the reason I bought it. It's great fun to throw around A roads with the added bonus that whatever you throw at it, it'll do it with ease. To say it isn't exciting in any respect is just daft - I don't expect you to like it if its not your thing but surely you can avoid the uninformed sweeping generalisation. It's exciting to look at it with it's factory fit M5 bodykit, it's exciting to drive, etc..

It might be a 4 door saloon but it's still got 230bhp and a simply fantastic RWD chassis - it's not boring. I bet you'd say something like a 330Ci is exciting even though its fundamentally the same only with less doors..

Perhaps you need to drive one rather than get a lift to the shops in your uncles 10 year old 528i SE automatic. Then you might understand.

I really wouldn't agree that much of what I have said is an "uninformed sweeping generalisation"; without intending to sound big headed I am very informed on cars in general and have a good knowledge of BMWs; while I appreciate I am learning more and more every day and perhaps I don't have as much general car knowledge as yourself and some others here yet, particularly about BMWs but I wouldn't say I was a "know it all" who really knows nothing.

Perhaps the only uninformed assumption out of all I've said in this thread is in my last post where I said I assume anyone who buys a non M e39 5 series could appreciate themselves it was a little boring. You're certainly not of that opinion and I admit I haven't spoke to many e39 5 owners and perhaps that is not the case so I hold my hands up to that.

If you find your BMW exciting to drive, excellent, I'm pleased for you that you own one of your favourite cars and you are very satisfied with it. I know you really appreciate e39's Fox as do many including myself and I am not knocking the car, I have sang its praises however I have also laid out some of my criteria of an exciting car and still stand by my statement that for me (and I don't assume I speak for everybody) I find it a little boring.

You can try and discredit me by pointing to what I drive at the moment and assuming someone who drives a boring, FWD and slow hatchback wouldn't know what they're talking about but I'd rather you didn't and debated with me on the merit of the content of my posts. Although I forgive you for assuming because I drive a Focus I don't have much experience of driving cars, particularly exciting ones but without going into detail that is not the case with me and I have driven a wide variety of cars shall I say, 4wd, rwd etc. and I plan on getting rid of this Focus for something with much better performance soon

The philosophy of boring is one of opinion and not fact. Because I am of a different opinion to you in this case does not mean I am wrong nor does it you.

Let's agree to disagree?

 

[[TW]Fox]

I really wouldn't agree that much of what I have said is an "uninformed sweeping generalisation"; without intending to sound big headed I am very informed on cars in general and have a good knowledge of BMWs;

With respect you can't be that informed if you thought a 10 year old 528i SE was a good reference point as to how good a facelift 530i Sport is.

Perhaps the only uninformed assumption out of all I've said in this thread is in my last post where I said I assume anyone who buys a non M e39 5 series could appreciate themselves it was a little boring. You're certainly not of that opinion and I admit I haven't spoke to many e39 5 owners and perhaps that is not the case so I hold my hands up to that.

So what makes the E39 M5 exciting? Becuase the only major difference is the performance the E39 M5 offers. Everything else it does, it does slightly better than a Sport - after all, the M5 was what influenced the Sport range.

I just take issue with your statement that everyone who buys a non M BMW does so on the understanding they are 'boring'. This smacks of somebody who has never had proper experience of any BMW.

And yes, everyone has different opinions. But some opinions are ridiculous.

Would it be acceptable, for example, for me to say AHHAH ALL AUDIS ARE JUST BORING? No, of course not. It would be a ridiculous generalisation and to hide behind it being 'my opinion' rather than PROPERLY justify it would be daft.

It's quite clear from your post that your experience with an E39 or, having said that, an E46, begins and ends with a short passenger ride in an older, prefacelift SE specification 528i. You can't form an opinion on the rest of the range from this one model and then not expect to be challenged.

 

[Wicksta]

Lovely car Pete - far from boring and certainly a real drivers car.

Comparing an SE to an M Sport isn't really a valid comparism. Even the sport seats make a huge difference to the feel of the car and they are nothing compared to the suspension differences.

When I compare our SE e46 to an M Sport one the difference is night and day.

 

[Adz]

'Boring' by its definition is a subjective term therefore you could argue until the cows come home and neither of you would be right.

To me personally, any car which isn't special or innovative in any way is boring. My car for instance is obscenely boring, even an M5 is to an extent. I'd still own one in a heartbeat though if the circumstances allowed. Most emotionally exciting cars are far more trouble than they're worth.

 

[[TW]Fox]

To me, boring/not boring is about how a car makes me feel, both when I look at it or when I drive it. Innovations, rarity and whether or not 400 other ones drive past me on the way to work* don't enter into the equation

*Although having said that I rarely see other E39 Sports. Which is a shame, as I love admiring them - but excluding the one owned by next door I probably only see another one every week or so. Obviously it's probably different further up country.

 

[Adz]

If you can get that kind of benefit from your car, good for you .

Most of the cars that would evoke those sort of emotions for me are well out of my price range. That's why I can never understand people saying that their Astra is more exciting than a Focus or their 3 series is more exciting than a C class. It's just a car! They're all good in their own way but exciting? No way!

 

[Vibez]

With respect you can't be that informed if you thought a 10 year old 528i SE was a good reference point as to how good a facelift 530i Sport is.

I didn't compare my uncles 528i SE automatic with a 530i Sport, I was asked have I been in one and answered accordingly, I assume he meant e39 5 in general as he didn't specifically mention a 530i Sport. I appreciate there is an increase in performance of the 530 over the 528 and Sport has many benefits over SE with improved handling etc. Once again I am of the opinion that a E39 5 series 530i Sport in particular is a great car and haven't stated otherwise.

So what makes the E39 M5 exciting? Becuase the only major difference is the performance the E39 M5 offers. Everything else it does, it does slightly better than a Sport - after all, the M5 was what influenced the Sport range.

Are you putting words into my mouth? I don't think I said the E39 M5 was exciting anywhere but if you really want to know, for me the M5 is more exciting than a non M 5 due to the increased performance and higher potential speed and excitement that brings.

I just take issue with your statement that everyone who buys a non M BMW does so on the understanding they are 'boring'.

As you quoted I identified this as an uninformed assumption myself and admit to not actually having spoken to many e39 5 owners. My mate has one, my good friend's father owns one and my uncle owns one, of which I have spoke to all 3 people I know who own one in significant length about their cars, admittedly none of them own anything higher than a 528 SE and I haven't spent much time reading threads on any BMW forums about the e39 5 so again I hold my hands up to making an assumption there and perhaps many owners (I suspect 528 + and particularly Sport owners in particular) may claim my assumption is incorrect but then again other e39 owners may themselves be of the opinion that it is a little boring like me too.

This smacks of somebody who has never had proper experience of any BMW.

Negative.

 

[Scania]

The Sport spec 530i will eclipse the 528i SE every time, just as my "Sport" Spec 728i trounces my dads SE in the corners and road holding. (Yes I've driven it!)

I doubt very much the same would be said if the 528i ran on 18's with stiffer suspension etc, I'm sure it would then be the other way around. Well, it is! I tried some Sport spec e39's and liked them very much more than my dads.

I was surprised how differently the Sport 728i I bought drove when compared with a near identical 728i non Sport (smaller wheels softer suspension etc) that I tried at a dealer.

The ride is better in the SE by a long way but the handling is way short, not bad for a near 2 ton barge I think!

I was plesantly surprised to find no difference in handling between a 51 plate 740i and my '97 728i, can't say the same when comparing the 2.8 engine with the 4.4 though!!!

 

[[TW]Fox]

I drive the 530d quite a bit now as it's always got diesel in it which I don't pay for and it's really quite amazing how two virtually identical cars can feel so different.

So, 530d SE v 530i Sport for those who are interested.

The 530d SE is a more relaxed car to drive than the 530i Sport. It cruises over speed bumps and potholes more smoothly, it's more relaxing to drive and it cruises with a very pliant ride. It's the sort of car that makes you want to whack Classic FM on the stereo and waft around. Suddenly, you are content to sit back, relax, and let the world whizz past as you cruise along doing 50mpg, arriving at your destination refreshed and relaxed. The interior is light and airy, set off by the Vavona wood trim, and light grey headlining.

The tradeoff here is that when you pick up the pace or get onto some decent roads, the 16" wheels with 225/55 profile tyres and SE suspension begins to display the compromise which resulted in the ride described above. It rolls a bit in corners, and although the grip and handling is still there, it feels like a large cruiser. It actually also feels like it'd suit an Auto box better than the manual box it has.

The 530i Sport is subtly opposite. It'll still cruise nicely and you can still cover lots of ground effortlessly, but the ride is not as smooth, and you can at times tell it's fitted with Sports suspension. But then when you get off the Motorway, the bodyroll is considerably less, the handling feels tight, and it's great fun to throw around and feels like a car thats far smaller. It feels more sporting inside, as well - gone is the Vavona wood trim, in its place Aluminium, and the light grey headlining is replaced by darker Anthracite.

Neither is better than the other, it depends entirely what your personal taste is - but it's amazing what difference the Sports seats, 17" wheels and M-Tech lowered and stiffened suspension makes to the character of the car (M-Tech suspension is not just uprated and lowered springs and dampers, other suspension components such as the anti-rollbars are different as well).

 

[Vibez]

And yes, everyone has different opinions. But some opinions are ridiculous.

True

Would it be acceptable, for example, for me to say AHHAH ALL AUDIS ARE JUST BORING? No, of course not. It would be a ridiculous generalisation and to hide behind it being 'my opinion' rather than PROPERLY justify it would be daft.

I would disagree unless they could justify their opinion I have justified my opinion on why I deem the 530 a little boring and while I clearly haven't succeeded in justifying myself to you, that doesn't make me wrong to hold that opinion. I don't think you could accuse me of hiding behind it being 'my opinion'. You have attempted to justify your opinion that the 530 is a exciting car and haven't succeeded in bringing me to the same opinion as yourself but that doesn't make you wrong either.[/QUOTE]

It's quite clear from your post that your experience with an E39 or, having said that, an E46, begins and ends with a short passenger ride in an older, prefacelift SE specification 528i. You can't form an opinion on the rest of the range from this one model and then not expect to be challenged.

You would be correct that in terms of driving, my experience in an E39 is very limited and in terms of E46 BMW is limited entirely to being a passenger however I fail to see the relevance of E46.

While you could argue that an opinion holds more value if it is of someone with hands on experience of the subject, actual extensive driving experience is not necessary to form an opinion and does not itself render an opinion invalid.

 

[Vibez]

I drive the 530d quite a bit now as it's always got diesel in it which I don't pay for and it's really quite amazing how two virtually identical cars can feel so different.

So, 530d SE v 530i Sport for those who are interested.

The 530d SE is a more relaxed car to drive than the 530i Sport. It cruises over speed bumps and potholes more smoothly, it's more relaxing to drive and it cruises with a very pliant ride. It's the sort of car that makes you want to whack Classic FM on the stereo and waft around. Suddenly, you are content to sit back, relax, and let the world whizz past as you cruise along doing 50mpg, arriving at your destination refreshed and relaxed. The interior is light and airy, set off by the Vavona wood trim, and light grey headlining.

The tradeoff here is that when you pick up the pace or get onto some decent roads, the 16" wheels with 225/55 profile tyres and SE suspension begins to display the compromise which resulted in the ride described above. It rolls a bit in corners, and although the grip and handling is still there, it feels like a large cruiser. It actually also feels like it'd suit an Auto box better than the manual box it has.

The 530i Sport is subtly opposite. It'll still cruise nicely and you can still cover lots of ground effortlessly, but the ride is not as smooth, and you can at times tell it's fitted with Sports suspension. But then when you get off the Motorway, the bodyroll is considerably less, the handling feels tight, and it's great fun to throw around and feels like a car thats far smaller. It feels more sporting inside, as well - gone is the Vavona wood trim, in its place Aluminium, and the light grey headlining is replaced by darker Anthracite.

Neither is better than the other, it depends entirely what your personal taste is - but it's amazing what difference the Sports seats, 17" wheels and M-Tech lowered and stiffened suspension makes to the character of the car (M-Tech suspension is not just uprated and lowered springs and dampers, other suspension components such as the anti-rollbars are different as well).

Nice review

 

[Scania]

Nice review

Fox, the next Clarkson. (when he's finished Uni)

 

[[TW]Fox]

Somehow I doubt it

 

[Vibez]

To me, boring/not boring is about how a car makes me feel, both when I look at it or when I drive it. Innovations, rarity and whether or not 400 other ones drive past me on the way to work* don't enter into the equation

*Although having said that I rarely see other E39 Sports. Which is a shame, as I love admiring them - but excluding the one owned by next door I probably only see another one every week or so. Obviously it's probably different further up country.

Fair enough, not everyone's criteria is the same.

I'm taking a break for a bit

 

[5tephen]

The 530d SE is a more relaxed car to drive than the 530i Sport. It cruises over speed bumps and potholes more smoothly, it's more relaxing to drive and it cruises with a very pliant ride. It's the sort of car that makes you want to whack Classic FM on the stereo and waft around. Suddenly, you are content to sit back, relax, and let the world whizz past as you cruise along doing 50mpg, arriving at your destination refreshed and relaxed. The interior is light and airy, set off by the Vavona wood trim, and light grey headlining.

The tradeoff here is that when you pick up the pace or get onto some decent roads, the 16" wheels with 225/55 profile tyres and SE suspension begins to display the compromise which resulted in the ride described above. It rolls a bit in corners, and although the grip and handling is still there, it feels like a large cruiser. It actually also feels like it'd suit an Auto box better than the manual box it has.

The 530i Sport is subtly opposite. It'll still cruise nicely and you can still cover lots of ground effortlessly, but the ride is not as smooth, and you can at times tell it's fitted with Sports suspension. But then when you get off the Motorway, the bodyroll is considerably less, the handling feels tight, and it's great fun to throw around and feels like a car thats far smaller. It feels more sporting inside, as well - gone is the Vavona wood trim, in its place Aluminium, and the light grey headlining is replaced by darker Anthracite.

Some things have obviously since changed with the E60 in that case as I would have to disagree with your opinion on the SE there Granted mine has 17" wheels, 245/45 profile which makes quite a bit of difference, but overall the E60 530D SE is a considerable step above what you are describing there. Perhaps you should prefix your review as 'E39 530D SE vs E39 530i' I barely reach 30mpg to a tank which is probably the best explanation of how I drive mine (or how mine can be driven ) and that would be about 50/50 between motorway and town driving. And it's definitely the car that provokes this style, as it definitely does not prompt 'wafting around' or 'listening to classic fm' compared to the likes of a Merc.

What I would say though, for people who think that the 5-series is somehow a boring car, is that they're probably getting mixed up between boredom and comfort imho, regardless of sport or SE spec. 80mph in a 5-series is considerably more 'boring' than 80mph in say a Focus because in a 5-series you don't realise the speed you're sitting at - it easily feels like 50mph.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Some things have obviously since changed with the E60 in that case as I would have to disagree with your opinion on the SE there Granted mine has 17" wheels, 245/45 profile which makes quite a bit of difference, but overall the E60 530D SE is a considerable step above what you are describing there. Perhaps you should prefix your review as 'E39 530D SE vs E39 530i' I barely reach 30mpg to a tank which is probably the best explanation of how I drive mine (or how mine can be driven ) and that would be about 50/50 between motorway and town driving. And it's definitely the car that provokes this style, as it definitely does not prompt 'wafting around' or 'listening to classic fm' compared to the likes of a Merc.

This is a thread about the E39, so it's pretty obvious I was reffering to the E39 SE. Also, it applies equally to the E60 530d SE just not YOUR E60 530d SE, becuase if I remember correctly, the original owner of your car specified the M-Tech Sports suspension, and it does not run on 16" wheels, does it?

The ride and handling of an E60 SE with M-Tech suspension is very similar to that of the E39 Sport with the exception of the fact the turn-in doesn't feel quite so sharp. Whereas the E60 Sport is noticeably harsher in terms of ride due to larger wheels combined with the RFT's.

Your car is much closer to a Sport than it is an SE without any options. 30mpg is also apalling, it's either broken or you drive like you've just stolen it (If you do, it'll bite you one day) if you do 50% Motorway and still don't get above 30mpg .

 

[lordrobs]

Fox, the next Clarkson. (when he's finished Uni)

I can see that actually. But instead of "POOOOOWWWAAAAAA" it'll be "AIIIIR CONNNN" "CRUUUISE CONTROOOLLL" etc.