Soldato
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Isn't the reverse the entire point of the thread??
New Labour, was it worth it?
- Thread starter jsmoke
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Isn't the reverse the entire point of the thread??
So basically every gov’t we’ve ever had have been a disaster and we need to froth at the mouth with incredulity at whichever one we don’t like, yet somehow despite the doom and gloom, we have somehow bumbled through it?
I wish we could get away from this modern idiocy of each party just dog piling on the other without being able to put a credible alternative policy on the table, it’s precisely why we still have Boris the Buffoon, he only needs to bumble along and he’s still more credible at the ballet box (shamefully), I feel that BoJo, that whilst sub-par, is still more credible then the crap show that Labour is, so is probably best for the country, but every fibre of my body knows we could do much better as a country with a strong non-socialist leader.
I wish we could get away from this modern idiocy of each party just dog piling on the other without being able to put a credible alternative policy on the table, it’s precisely why we still have Boris the Buffoon, he only needs to bumble along and he’s still more credible at the ballet box (shamefully), I feel that BoJo, that whilst sub-par, is still more credible then the crap show that Labour is, so is probably best for the country, but every fibre of my body knows we could do much better as a country with a strong non-socialist leader.
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You still feel, after the **** show of the past few years, there is no better alternative...... a potato would do a better job.
Soldato
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As someone on the side of competence I'm not sure if *any* alternative is better that the current lot, but it's a very low bar, so on the balance of probability, anyone would be better 
They made some bad decisions, but I dont agree with what you said.
As an example the housing problem I think was started by Thatcher, and the blame I apportion to New Labour as that they decided to not reverse her decisions, but they were not the source of it.
New labour did significantly increase spending on child welfare, including budget per pupil in public schools, there is a clip of a bbc news report showing that whilst New Labour was in power budget per pupil tracked private school spending but then very soon after New Labour lost power it has plummeted under the Tories.
The Tories tend to try and make their cuts shielded to the wealthier people so it appears they not harming the country e.g. cuts to council budgets, which impacts things like social care, cuts to social housing budgets which impacts those who have to rent because privately because they got no other choice, cuts to social security under the premise that its all been splashed on sky tv, gambling and pubs. Then there is the reduction of the state again with an illusion painted that its holding back economic progress, in reality if you analyse a lot of their policies, they really trying to satisfy their wealthy donors and the top % of the wealthiest people in the country. They will throw out crumbs such as the increase in 0% income tax threshold and use their printed press machines to keep their voters on side.
I dont think Labour are saints though, not a huge fan of New Labour, but they are at least an alternative that isnt as extreme in many of these areas. The country badly needs a left wing government in power to balance the scale, many other countries rotate between left and right wing government which balances things out, whilst we havent had a left wing government since the 70s. There has been no left wing government in my entire lifetime (I was born in 1979).
What really astounds me though, is that Labour havent been in power for 12 years, and so many people have the mindset "But the Tories are the only party who can govern" or "The alternative is no better", these are baseless because the current opposition parties have not had any power for 12 years, except Lib Dem who were part of the coalition. it seems to be assumptions about what Labour would be doing like they are some kind of invisible government which is complete nonsense. Its kind of like holding a grudge against someone for something they did 40 years ago.
Also do people really think the global crash in 2009 wouldnt have affected the country if the Tories were in power then? A party that promotes deregulation and wealth expansion for bankers.
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If we exclude the Iraq war, then Labour did a lot of good things during their time in office (mainly under Blair).
It was the first election I could vote in and voted Labour "Things can only get better".
I don't know if it was because of my youth, but I found people on both the right and left didn't like the Conservative government. A lot of Tory voters didn't like Major and Heseltine for stabbing Thatcher in the back, and was surprised when Major won the next election. John Major was so flat as a personality he was called the 'gray man of politics'.
There was a feeling there needed to be a change and Blair at the time at PMQ's was dominating Major on every subject. I remember that people were impressed of how much knowledge Blair was able to use on all different Labour policies and answer back to Major.
I think the Conservatives would have lost even if Blair/Brown hadn't been there. But the fact Blair was a good orator give Labour a big majority.
It was the first election I could vote in and voted Labour "Things can only get better".
I don't know if it was because of my youth, but I found people on both the right and left didn't like the Conservative government. A lot of Tory voters didn't like Major and Heseltine for stabbing Thatcher in the back, and was surprised when Major won the next election. John Major was so flat as a personality he was called the 'gray man of politics'.
There was a feeling there needed to be a change and Blair at the time at PMQ's was dominating Major on every subject. I remember that people were impressed of how much knowledge Blair was able to use on all different Labour policies and answer back to Major.
I think the Conservatives would have lost even if Blair/Brown hadn't been there. But the fact Blair was a good orator give Labour a big majority.
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It worth around $70 million to Tony Blair according to the internet.
Yep voters put a lot of emphasis on the personality of a leader.
I did always think the voters abandoned for other reasons as well such as the attempt to bring in the poll tax and all the sleaze from them in the 1990s. But I wasnt an adult then so it is interesting to learn its simply because they didnt like thatcher got removed who I personally believe did a lot of damage to this country.
It was probably a combination of both.
Thatcher had a big cult of personality too, and though there was opposition to her she also had the loyal voter base. But when Thatcher went I think the Tory voters started to drop. So it was probably a combination of Tory voters dropping, and at the time New Labour/Blair was talking in a centrist way, which Blair called 'The Third Way'.
Some people are commenting today that we're seeing a similar Tory voter decline. If things carry on we'll probably see them drop out of power. I don't think Starmer is as charismatic as Blair. But he could still win by default. Starmer doesn't have the fear factor that Corbyn did so there won't be the same panic to go and vote against Labour this time.
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The same could have been said about Thatchers results and Kninnock being the Labour leader at the time. Once Kinnock went so did the Tories mayority. Blair lost millions of votes every election despite it increaing the two elections before him. Even Major got more votes than Thatcher during Kinnocks rein.
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The years under Labour were light yeaers better than what came before or since.
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That's all they have ever done, divide, destroy, lie, steal and cheat.
I remember it quite decent from 96 - 2003-05. The decline massively ramped up from 2009 to where we are.
That's practically what all politicians do. Across all parties. None of them care about the people. Only themselves.
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I’m glad you put a laughing smiley at the end of that because it made me laughYou still feel, after the **** show of the past few years, there is no better alternative...... a potato would do a better job.
What non-right-leaning folks don’t seem to understand (and this applies to the the end of Boris thread in SC) is that in the eyes of the electorate, no other party is even offering a potato
They are offering a vacuum
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This might stand up if the government were competent at any part of governance, they have failed on every metric going. Every minister is a shady liar with dodgy deals coming out their ears. Dodgy peers promoted for cash. Illegal deporations costing billions, with reciprocal immigration so it wont solve a thing. Mates promoted for cash. Russian money coming out their eyeballs. Reports suppressed. Rules rewritten to protect their corruption. Lies told daily and repeatedly until they are embedded in society. They are horrendous in all aspects top to bottom. Its not even debatable. We would be better off if there had been no government for 6 years. So how would any of the other parties do any worse.....
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Pretty much agree with all of that, but the electorate think otherwise
Back on topic, was it worth it? What was the alternative……a solid run of Tory governments from 1979 until now? At least New Labour got elected. People may cast them as Tory-lite, but for left-leaning folks, wasn’t that better than full-on Tory?
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The labour years were pretty damn good, but who knows if it was the previous government or new labour who brought it about.
I think the country was just ready for a change.
I think the country was just ready for a change.
The 1922 Committee report into the viability of Necromancy will never be made public.
This is what I remember.
To be honest even up to about 2007 although signs of the financial crash were becoming evident things were good.
I think it you could go back in time to say 2005 and tell people what things would be like in 2022 they either wouldn't believe you or the population would be in mass hysteria, yet here we are....
Believe me, I'm not the biggest fan of Labour either, the Iraq war thing very much tainted that, but it was better times.
The financial crash of 2008 effected most of the Western world and no party could have avoided or negated that, but we've had 12 years of conversative and things have steadily declined. The last few years particularly, country is in an absolute state now, maybe Labour would have done a worse job? Who knows, but right now I am not sure how you could do much worse than that s current government.
I mean, our prime minister is an asshat.