New Labour, was it worth it?

[Tony Edwards]

The financial crash of 2008 effected most of the Western world and no party could have avoided or negated that, but we've had 12 years of conversative and things have steadily declined. The last few years particularly, country is in an absolute state now, maybe Labour would have done a worse job? Who knows, but right now I am not sure how you could do much worse than that s current government.

I mean, our prime minister is an asshat.

Yes but better regulation by New Labour would have helped. Ill give it to Vince Cable he was talking about this crash coming while others laughed at him. If the Tories had been in I think it would have been an even bigger disaster as they already thought the regulations put in by Labour were too much.

With hindsight I certainly think Brown and Darling would have been much better at handling the economy and public spending and we would be in a much better position now thats for sure.

They could have got the country going again allowing the Tories to come in in 2015 offering a referendum and well we would be back here.

 

[V F]

This the same Gordon Brown that sold the gold off so cheaply?

 

[Tony Edwards]

This the same Gordon Brown that sold the gold off so cheaply?

Maybe you should educate yourself on why the gold was sold at the time?

Anyway compared to Osbourne who lost our credit rating? And this new lot!

 

[ubersonic]

Was the country really in a bad way in 1997, what would have happened if the Tories had remained in power and the New labour revolution had never happened

Well, if the Tories had managed to hang on in '97 then Labour wouldn't have come to power until 2001, giving the Tories another four years to cause damage but after 2001 everything would unfold as it did from that point. With the potential change to the timeline meaning that the Tories might not have managed to get back in in 2010 and so the damage they did between 2010-2015 wouldn't have happened. I.E we would have BAE Nimrod MRA4 maritime patrol planes patrolling our waters as the Tories wouldn't have scrapped them to "save money" then remembered we live on an island and had to blow billions on inferior American replacements xD

If you mean had Labour not come to power full stop then fox hunting would never have been banned, there would be a lot more plumbers/electricians/etc and a lot less people with "mickey mouse" degrees as Blair wouldn't have made it easier to go to university (and encouraged it over real world qualifications).

 

[ubersonic]

It’s hard to say, obviously the Iraq war can be laid at Blair’s feet without much argument.

That's actually an interesting allegation given the topic of discussion, considering that any Tory leader of the Blair era would have made the same decisions as Blair based on the "evidence" supplied by Bush.

 

[VincentHanna]

You forgot the gold sell off.

This the same Gordon Brown that sold the gold off so cheaply?

Clearly bears repeating...

People banging on about this might want to compare what that cost the country, compared to very recently when Rishi Sunak didn't insure debt against interest rate rises.

 

[danlightbulb]

I think the early Blair government was on the whole a good one. It started to deteriorate in the late 00's and by the time Brown became PM they had run their course.

I then felt the Cameron Clegg coalition actually was very balanced and good for the country. If it wasnt for that coalition we'd not have had personal allowance increases to what they are today which has benefited a lot of people. It's a shame people just focus on the negative headlines with that period because Cameron Clegg came across to me as two people with some decency.

The Boris government has been a slogan filled propaganda mess the whole way starting with Brexit and now what we have today. I can't think of anything that has improved under that government. It feels like we've just elected a car salesman as a PM because he shouts the loudest.

 

[JRS]

New Labour accomplishments:

introducing the national minimum wage and establishing the low pay commission...

the human rights act, more than doubling the number of apprenticeships, tripled spending on our NHS, 4 new med schools...

42400 extra teachers, 212000 more support staff, scrapped section 28, introduced civil partnerships, doubled overseas aid budget...

sure start, lifted 900000 pensioners out of poverty, good friday agreement, tax credits, equality and human rights commission...

reduced the number of people waiting over six months for an operation from 284000 to almost zero by 2010, 44000 doctors, 89000 nurses...

beating the kyoto target on greenhouse gases, stopped milosevic, winter fuel allowance, climate change act, decreased homelessness by 73%...

free eye tests for over 60s, 16000 more police officers, extended the opening hours of over three quarters of GP practices...

free prescriptions for cancer patients, removed the majority of hereditary peers, free part-time nursery place for every three - four yo...

paid annual leave to 28 days per year, paternity leave, doubled education funding, increased the value of child benefit by over 26%...

food standards agency, equality act, FOI act, increased university places, helped end the civil war in sierra leone, crossrail...

rural development programme, EMA, free bus passes for over 60s, devolution, banned cluster bombs, ban on grammar schools...

£20bn in improvements to social housing conditions, longest period of sustained low inflation since the 1960s...

heart disease deaths down by 150000, cancer deaths down by 50000, removed the minimum donations limit from gift aid...

reduced he number of people on waiting lists by over 500000; waiting times fell to a maximum of 18 weeks (lowest ever levels)...

oversaw the rise in the number of school leavers with five good GCSEs from 45% to 76%, young person’s job guarantee, pension credit...

cut long-term youth unemployment by 75%, doubled the number of registered childcare spaces, disability rights commission...

free school milk & fruit, raised legal age of buying cigarettes to 18, banned tobacco advertising in magazines, newspapers and billboards...

free entry to galleries and museums, 2009 autism act, new deal for communities programme (£2bn), electoral commission...

halved the number of our nukes, free television licences for those aged 75+, EU social chapter, free breast cancer screening...

record low A&E waiting times, reintroduced matrons, hunting act, banned testing of cosmetics on animals...

department of international development, reduced class sizes, 93000 more 11-year-olds achieving in numeracy each year, London 2012...

10 years of continuous economic growth, NHS direct, healthier school meals, access to life saving drugs for HIV and AIDS...

points based immigration system, equalised age of consent, smoking ban, public interest test, crime down 45% since 1995...

and wrote off up to 100% of debt owed by poorest countries.

 

[Hades]

I think the early Blair government was on the whole a good one. It started to deteriorate in the late 00's and by the time Brown became PM they had run their course.

I then felt the Cameron Clegg coalition actually was very balanced and good for the country. If it wasnt for that coalition we'd not have had personal allowance increases to what they are today which has benefited a lot of people. It's a shame people just focus on the negative headlines with that period because Cameron Clegg came across to me as two people with some decency.

The Boris government has been a slogan filled propaganda mess the whole way starting with Brexit and now what we have today. I can't think of anything that has improved under that government. It feels like we've just elected a car salesman as a PM because he shouts the loudest.

I think this is a a fair assessment, although Cameron screwed it up by not expecting people to vote for Brexit.

It's funny how Teressa May's leadership gets largely forgotten nowadays. I think she was a terrible PM but could have been a good one. What I mean by that is that she is more of a "manager" than a "leader". She probably would have been a good one if she had been PM at another time such as now. We need a good manager now to get us through difficult financial times. But she was a manager during a time when Brexit needed a stronger leader (I'm not commenting on the rights or wrongs of Brexit, but simply that once the decision had been made we needed a strong leader to get the best deal).

 

[danlightbulb]

May was a decent person with some integrity. Problem is that people want drama these days like it's a TV show.

 

[danlightbulb]

although Cameron screwed it up by not expecting people to vote for Brexit.

Partly, but perhaps he didn't expect loudmouth Boris to take focus and convince people through his style of bullcrap and noise. And people bought it hook line and sinker.

The problem with Boris is a lot of people do like him. He's an idiot, in it for himself only, but enjoyable and colourful.

 

[V F]

Maybe you should educate yourself on why the gold was sold at the time?

Anyway compared to Osbourne who lost our credit rating? And this new lot!

Clearly bears repeating...

Two wrongs makes a right does it?

 

[chroniclard]

But she was a manager during a time when Brexit needed a stronger leader (I'm not commenting on the rights or wrongs of Brexit, but simply that once the decision had been made we needed a strong leader to get the best deal).

Yes, its a crying shame that after she went we still didnt get a strong leader or get the best deal.

 

[Tony Edwards]

That's actually an interesting allegation given the topic of discussion, considering that any Tory leader of the Blair era would have made the same decisions as Blair based on the "evidence" supplied by Bush.

Also more Labour MPs voted against the war than Tory MPs. But yes Blair was a fool for blindly following Bush and then letting down the people of iraq when they pulled out.

I think the early Blair government was on the whole a good one. It started to deteriorate in the late 00's and by the time Brown became PM they had run their course.

I then felt the Cameron Clegg coalition actually was very balanced and good for the country. If it wasnt for that coalition we'd not have had personal allowance increases to what they are today which has benefited a lot of people. It's a shame people just focus on the negative headlines with that period because Cameron Clegg came across to me as two people with some decency.

The Boris government has been a slogan filled propaganda mess the whole way starting with Brexit and now what we have today. I can't think of anything that has improved under that government. It feels like we've just elected a car salesman as a PM because he shouts the loudest.

Personal allowances? While cutting public spending forcing libraries and swimming pools to shut and all the other terrible things they brought in. No thanks.

Two wrongs makes a right does it?

Thats not even close. Irronically what ruined it was traders shorting gold.

Its not like when the Tories cut flood defence spending just before the great floods or cutting spending on the security of PPE gear in case of a pandemic or any of the other deadly mistakes they made. At the time there were solid reasons to sell the gold.

 

[bainbridge]

I helped to vote them in. First time I was old enough to vote in a general election, I was young and naiive. Now I'm old and weathered, and know that it doesn't really matter what a political party stands for, or what's in their manifesto, because as soon as they get a sniff of power they'll soon change their tune.

Blair did help organise the good Friday agreement and the London Olympics though.

 

[Mint8]

Partly, but perhaps he didn't expect loudmouth Boris to take focus and convince people through his style of bullcrap and noise. And people bought it hook line and sinker.

The problem with Boris is a lot of people do like him. He's an idiot, in it for himself only, but enjoyable and colourful.

Is that actually true though ?

My memory of the whole Brexit run up was that Johnson was pretty quiet on the issue, and sat on the fence until late on in the campaign when he actually decided he was a leaver and came out with the whole NHS bus thing. People like Gove and of course Farage were far more prominent prior to the referendum. Johnson more so once May was in charge and failing to get a deal done etc ??

 

[imtoooldforthis]

I do often think that New Labour are the source of most of our problems too tbh.

Must be glorious being a Tory MP, no matter how long you run the country for, no matter how crap you are at your job there is always going to be people who blame everything on Labour.

 

[imtoooldforthis]

none of them care about the people. Only themselves.

This is a huge generalisation. You really think someone like Bernie Sanders doesn't care about the things he has being pushing for five decades ? That really he doesn't care one bit about the American population having access to free health care ? and that somehow he's campaigning for free healthcare for his own benefits and no one elses ?

That's one example. There are lots of terrible selfish politicians but there are good ones out there and they aren't as rare as you'd think, you probably just don't hear about them because they just get on with their job and avoid scandal. That said a sizeable chunk of the ones further up the pecking order probably fit your description quite well.

 

[Andrew_McP]

Must be glorious being a Tory MP, no matter how long you run the country for, no matter how crap you are at your job there is always going to be people who blame it on Labour.

The idiots are the people who constantly blame the state of the nation on this party, that party, this policy, that policy. Most of that, at best, tinkers with the lack of long term planning that five year terms never solve. This country is a mess because we, as a population, are a mess. No backbone. No appetite for the hard choices which need to be made by all parties. We screwed up when we rejected PR. PR solves nothing, but it does stop this ping-ponging of blame. Because everyone's to blame, all the time. Which is closer to the truth than the partisan clap-trap.

While I'm here, New Labour -- who I voted for twice -- looked great because they benefitted hugely from the funny money The City generated for a decade or so. It was a real magic money tree... until the debt pass the re-parcel merry-go-round merry-go-went.

Right, nothing to see here. Carry on with the Punch & Judy show.

 

[Tony Edwards]

The idiots are the people who constantly blame the state of the nation on this party, that party, this policy, that policy. Most of that, at best, tinkers with the lack of long term planning that five year terms never solve. This country is a mess because we, as a population, are a mess. No backbone. No appetite for the hard choices which need to be made by all parties. We screwed up when we rejected PR. PR solves nothing, but it does stop this ping-ponging of blame. Because everyone's to blame, all the time. Which is closer to the truth than the partisan clap-trap.

While I'm here, New Labour -- who I voted for twice -- looked great because they benefitted hugely from the funny money The City generated for a decade or so. It was a real magic money tree... until the debt pass the re-parcel merry-go-round merry-go-went.

Right, nothing to see here. Carry on with the Punch & Judy show.

No they looked great becuase of their vision. Granted they seemed to be willing to get the money from anywhere they could but at least they had a vision to better the countries public services for the masses. Austerity wasnt about controlling the finances it was about Tory small state ideology.

Even if things had been booming the Tories would have made those cuts. The only thing the recession did was stop them giving even bigger tax cuts to the rich and subsidies to their mates in business.