New Mac Products 7th August

[Slogan]

But then that would contradict what Steve said in his address - he wants things to be all-in-one.

That's very true. But to be fair, something like a 'headless iMac' has been much too long arriving.

If Apple, who are forever going on about increasing market share and gain on the industry, are going to really do something about that, then they're going to have to learn to let go of their controlling mindset on things.

Whether they're prepared to do that and allow much more upgrade-ability to their products, I don't know. I would doubt it though.

I just can't understand for the life of me why a company so massively big can neglect or partly ignore not only the gaming community, but surely one of the main reasons why a lot of people won't make the complete switch.

 

[NickK]

It's not if Apple have the background and experience in the games market.. so I doubt we see a "mac:iGamesConsole"..

 

[Slogan]

It's not if Apple have the background and experience in the games market..

Where was their background and experience in the phone industry?

 

[ic1male]

If Apple, who are forever going on about increasing market share and gain on the industry

That's another thing I was slightly shocked at. When asked did he see the Macs as aiming an elite group rather than the mass consumer market, Steve replied his aim was to make the best computers out there. I don't think he's bothered either way if the market share stays as it is. He's got enough $ rolling in as things are now.

 

[artaxerxes]

There was once a Mac games console!

The Apple Pippin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pippin

... reading that article brings back memories, my mate had a 3D0.

There was also a variety of Phones, there was a phone mockup done in the 80s and the Motorola ROKR just a few years back, and of course the Apple Newton was basically what we have now repackaged as the iPhone.

 

[Slogan]

I just can't understand why Apple aren't doing absolutely everything in their power to get everyone they can.

The 2400 and 2600 are really the best Apple can do? Wouldn't surprise me if they didn't go with a bigger/better card because it wouldn't make the iMac thinner than the previous version. But that's just me being skeptical.

As I say, just can't wrap my head around it. It's like they're trying to avoid really having a go for what is a market waiting, begging to have no excuses for the switch. Every man and his dog know that games on a Mac and on Mac hardware are just pointless tasks, in the overall and very big picture of gaming.

OS X is such an amazing operating system, their design team are just world class and they're as ever, setting the standard - so why tarnish that with shoddy components that there is an endless wealth of choice in? I'm talking mainly GPUs here, the rest is fine.

Ah well, maybe they're more determined to keep their 'No Virus' propaganda crap than actually take the challenge to Microsoft.

And I'm typing this on a MacBook Pro before anyone starts.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

I just can't understand why Apple aren't doing absolutely everything in their power to get everyone they can.

The 2400 and 2600 are really the best Apple can do? Wouldn't surprise me if they didn't go with a bigger/better card because it wouldn't make the iMac thinner than the previous version. But that's just me being skeptical.

As I say, just can't wrap my head around it. It's like they're trying to avoid really having a go for what is a market waiting, begging to have no excuses for the switch. Every man and his dog know that games on a Mac and on Mac hardware are just pointless tasks, in the overall and very big picture of gaming.

OS X is such an amazing operating system, their design team are just world class and they're as ever, setting the standard - so why tarnish that with shoddy components that there is an endless wealth of choice in? I'm talking mainly GPUs here, the rest is fine.

Ah well, maybe they're more determined to keep their 'No Virus' propaganda crap than actually take the challenge to Microsoft.

And I'm typing this on a MacBook Pro before anyone starts.

I agree with you there, and I think it is probably a bit more to do with keeping the iMac slimmer than you may think.

For example, if the iMac display was shrouded in JUST the Aluminum it would be sweet, but the black border basically disguises the fact that it's simular to the previous "gen" of iMac.

I liked the design, but the more I look at it, the more it seems like the previous design covered by a bit of smoke and mirror effects ..

I think an email to Steve is in order, asking about the GPU though.

 

[Slogan]

I think an email to Steve is in order, asking about the GPU though.

I don't really know which way Apple work in regards to that - but I imagine you'd end up getting some customer service rep reaming off something like 'Apple Inc. offers what it believes to be the best components etc etc'

Of course the question is much bigger and broader than someone wanting a better card for their sparkly iMac.

I agree with you on the design by the way. They've made it look very nice by changing very little but my point about cosmetics over components would not surprise me.

 

[lemonkettaz]

I think the 5th gen imac is lazy from apple.

No great steps in hardware input, nothing great about the appearance. Fair enough that black band helps eyes.. but its fugly. Like i said before i thought the actual display nearly touched the edged and i thought mmmm...but seeing a hideous black band round the display...nah.

Im not all bothered if they dont go a gaming friendly route... I dont see why people want an imac to play the latest games... build a gaming machine or get a console.

 

[Slogan]

People don't want an iMac to play the latest games. They want it to have OS X among other things.

But they can't have both at this point in time. When/If that changes, then Apple will be serious contenders.

 

[lemonkettaz]

I think they should have waited until leopard is out, and seriously re thought it and introduced it with leopard.

You can tell they have been way more concerned with the iphone in recent times

 

[Slogan]

You can tell they have been way more concerned with the iphone in recent times

Think that pretty much sums it up.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the new design. It's not amazing but it's understated and 'looks like a high end product'. But the size of the conference summed up how important it was.

 

[lemonkettaz]

Yeh it was a bit rubbish werent it.

Think it is a mistake for apple to think too much of the phone rather than their computers.

I do think they need to get real with their prices too, you can find more power for the same price else way,


custom built pc's can be very tasteful as well.. depending on who the owner is

 

[Slogan]

Definitely, not every PC looks like the Dell that they showed. Which was an exaggerated mess. But I'm sure it had the hardcore Apple fans either purring or with a semi lob-on.

What Apple need to do is lower their prices and crank up the quality of their hardware. And they're two things that don't fit together from a business point of view - so I just can't see it happening, as much as I'd like it to.

That control and tight grip they have around their products does nothing but hack people off and disadvantage the consumer. Not only in Macs, but with stuff like no Flash in the iPhone.

Bigger fool, them. I suppose.

 

[lemonkettaz]

Yeh steve jobs is a bit of a tail when it comes to openess i guess is the word. He loves the idea of apple being this underdog, he wont change that ever i dont think... because they dont do the right things to change it.

They could easily becom a much larger force, but that would sacrifice what steve jobs believes apple is, its all about ergonomics and aesthetics.

I agree about the XPS.. its almost embarrasing for the people in the know, i cringed at that shot, id put an imac up against one of the pictures of custom builds on "show us your computer" thread on here... be more of a reality.

apple like their close knit and will always be very reluctant on who enters until jobs goes.

 

[Johnny|lucidcomposure]

Its not just about games though is it. OS X a graphically gorgeous application. aperture and photoshop which now use graphics power for production and of course video editing.

3D rendering does not fall into just gaming. It is not like I am trying to ask for some slimline incorporated SLi set up within an iMac just something that is above average/good by todays standards.

Apple are promoting booting into windows on a Mac.. Why would 80% of mac users do that, Gaming exactly.

 

[DVD Cinema]

But the new upcoming games on the iMac will be tuned to run just fine won't they?

 

[Slogan]

Apple are promoting booting into windows on a Mac.. Why would 80% of mac users do that, Gaming exactly.

Not sure if I'm getting what you are saying, but why would people bother? Booting into Windows from an Apple machine is great. The flexibility there is unparalleled. But if you're doing it on a new iMac, you're still going to be using the same crappy GPU.

I mention gaming because it's a market that Apple are being confusing about. They're getting games from EA and id (I think) on the way and as it stands, you'll only be able to play those games on high settings, on a Mac Pro. Maybe a 2600 but I would doubt it.

Online gaming will hardly exist - any true gamers will want all the eye candy they can get and especially at the prices of the Mac offerings. An 2900 in an iMac would have been very good, but how many months down the line will it be until that becomes outdated? Some will argue it already is.

The decision to be non-upgrade means you need something half decent and the 2400/2600 in my opinion far from matches that. And it's a shame for so much money they couldn't get something with a bit more bite.

As lemonkettaz said, it's as if they're not doing the right things to open it up. Not hardware wise, anyway.

 

[lemonkettaz]

the basic fact remains,

they are well behind in terms of hardware cutting edge. whether they play games or do intense 3d/graphics etc.

there is no option other than macpro if you want something with power, everything else is substandard for the prices.

 

[daven1986]

i have always thought that if apple were to open their operating system up to the pc market then microsoft would lose 90% of home users.

I have tried a mac recently and am going to get a macbook soon, and the OS is second to none. VERY quick, VERY pretty and VERY easy to use. When i go back to vista, i cry.

I'd really like to see upgradable hardware in the macs, only really in terms of GPU and CPU. There shouldn't be much messing about with drivers and so forth, they just need to stop flashing the GPUs with their own bios nonsense. For me this is the only reason im staying with a PC for my desktop (maybe i'll get a mac mini if it ever does dual screen!!).

Also the only real gaming machine is the Mac Pro and they are so expensive they are just not worth it. You could get more performance from a PC plus a nice big monitor for the same price.

One day jobs will go and i hope that that brings a new person in who wants to increase the osx market share. The only problem with them doing that, is they can slack a bit, as tbh it is only the OS that makes people buy a mac in the first place, and therefore the OS must be MUCH better than all others. If they sell it to everyone, because they are already so much better than the others, then they can relax and we'll see fewer new additions to it.

I also like the mac OS as it has bits of linux in there too so is very useful for people who like me are on computer science courses who have to use linux at uni.

Daven