New Superman is..

[PlacidCasual]

If anything at all, making a superman film where superman is black is saying a combination of: “superman can be a black man” and “a black man can play the role of superman.”

It is not, in any way saying: “superman cannot be a white man”, “all portrayals where superman is white can and/or must be disregarded” and it’s especially not “we must do so to punish white people” - that last one is bizarre!

I have not once ever contemplated the colour of superman’s skin before this topic. I have no personal attachment to the colour of his skin and I think it is odd, of all the things to identify with the character, to identifying with him having white skin.

I broadly agree with this, no reason why we can't have an elseworlds or whatever alternative Superman like the Kal-El someone posted. My fear for a movie about a black superman is that in this climate they will bugger up the story because they're too busy teaching the audience about "issues" and not focus on telling a good story. The writer attached to this story from a quick parse of a few things he's written doesn't strike me as a guy that is going to focus on a good superhero story he seems a very political writer and I question if that's the guy to deliver what most people want to see.

 

[Nitefly]

Some folks will see it as exactly that due to the casting direction of specifically demanding not just a black actor but a black script-writer and black director at the exclusion of every other characteristic. In todays turbulent racial times where everything has to confront something, none of that casting list sounds like a studio whose saying "hey lets make a great film where Supes just happens to be black instead of white" but instead it could read like a studio out to "send a message", where the quality of the story, acting or direction isn't as important as the message about choosing people based on their skin colour sends.

Even if a studio is saying “let’s do a superman story specifically where he is black so as to send a message” (which I acknowledge they probably are doing here), I still don’t see how that can be properly construed as any of those things (I.e. “superman cannot be a white man”, “all portrayals where superman is white can and/or must be disregarded” or “we must do so to punish white people”). It’s just not the same, at all, and I do think it’s ultimately unhelpful and perpetuating of racial issues to deem it as some sort of “attack on whiteness” when it really isn’t.

To some keeping the character they enjoy in line with that characters "Canon" is important, so people who are saying that changing the characters Canon, for example changing his skin colour, isn't important are very much missing the point you made - that is IS important to other folks. The only way Canon changes are usually accepted is by making "alternate universe" versions such as the pro-Soviet "Red Son" version etc and we don't yet know if this new black superman film will be an alternate universe version or an attempt at rewritting the Canon.

Even if it does not expressly say so, it’s not going to be ‘rewriting canon’. It’s not taking any of the other material or depictions away. The recent Joker film was entirely its own thing - why can’t this be any different?

 

[Steampunk]

I agree with your sentiment generally, but do you really feel that superman not being white is ‘taking something away’?

That's the whole modus operandi of the likes of JJ Abrams who is in charge of this. He is the guy that wrote the notorious "no more white comfort" document from his multi-million dollar mansion. Tanahisi Coates is a full on anti-white racist. They are doing this to tear down a cultural icon who happens to be white, because of their agendas, and because they don't consider existing black versions of superman to be valid unless they can destroy the original iconic version and replace them.

This sort of gender and race washing has been done to death in the comics. It always fails because it's always about taking something away, always about replacing something they want to destroy, never about the quality of the work, or the integrity of existing characters and their source material. That goes for the white or male characters they are trying to replace, and the female and non-white characters they are using to do that.

 

[Nitefly]

I broadly agree with this, no reason why we can't have an elseworlds or whatever alternative Superman like the Kal-El someone posted. My fear for a movie about a black superman is that in this climate they will bugger up the story because they're too busy teaching the audience about "issues" and not focus on telling a good story. The writer attached to this story from a quick parse of a few things he's written doesn't strike me as a guy that is going to focus on a good superhero story he seems a very political writer and I question if that's the guy to deliver what most people want to see.

Yes they are going to have to tread the line quite carefully. An overemphasis on diversity issues could be grating.

It would be interesting to see how, for example, the civil rights movement in the US would have been effected by a black superman. Perhaps it would make the struggles more difficult? Genuinely, could be a really interesting film, much like the Red Son comic. However, a less intelligent and dumb approach to diversity issues could be terrible.

 

[Nitefly]

That's the whole modus operandi of the likes of JJ Abrams who is in charge of this. He is the guy that wrote the notorious "no more white comfort" document from his multi-million dollar mansion. Tanahisi Coates is a full on anti-white racist. They are doing this to tear down a cultural icon who happens to be white, because of their agendas, and because they don't consider existing black versions of superman to be valid unless they can destroy the original iconic version and replace them.

This sort of gender and race washing has been done to death in the comics. It always fails because it's always about taking something away, always about replacing something they want to destroy, never about the quality of the work, or the integrity of existing characters and their source material. That goes for the white or male characters they are trying to replace, and the female and non-white characters they are using to do that.

From a quick google I could only see a Twitter post including, amongst other phrases, “no more white comfort” rather than any sort of full on document, although I haven’t really looked into it a huge amount. It is a clumsy phrase, but this sort of reaction (to the issues in the US) just a pendulum ticking backward and forth and you can’t get unduly upset every-time the pendulum infrequently swings against you (considering how awful it can be to the other side of the pendulum from time to time). Again, I think the phrase is clumsy, but I understand the sentiment and I’m going to be forgiving of that clumsiness.

The rest of your post makes it sound like you are really, really (I.e. overly) aggrieved.

 

[Dup]

I couldn't give a toss what colour any character is in any movie assuming it fits along with the subject matter. Why can't Superman be about a superhuman alien who does cool stuff we all wish we could and kiks the bad guys backside?

Why does it have to haver some deeper adgenda? It doesn't need to be complicated much like the originals, something to wow young people in the cinema is what it should be.

 

[Steampunk]

From a quick google I could only see a Twitter post including, amongst other phrases, “no more white comfort” rather than any sort of full on document, although I haven’t really looked into it a huge amount. It is a clumsy phrase, but this sort of reaction (to the issues in the US) just a pendulum ticking backward and forth and you can’t get unduly upset every-time the pendulum infrequently swings against you (considering how awful it can be to the other side of the pendulum from time to time). Again, I think the phrase is clumsy, but I understand the sentiment and I’m going to be forgiving of that clumsiness.

The rest of your post makes it sound like you are really, really (I.e. overly) aggrieved.

Try looking here. Here's a link to the actual document Abrams published. It's basically corporate enshrining of critical race theory by the people now in charge of Superman. The same thing is happening across the board, whether it's at Disney, Lucasfilm, the BBC, etc. I'm aggrieved when people tell me I'm racist because of the colour of my skin, or sexist because of the gender I was born, instead of looking at my character and actions.

As for the pendulum swinging, that's not really how you raise up people. It isn't a question of "it's someone else's turn to be on top". That's how you creative divisiveness, not equality. The dogpiling and cancel culture is all from people fearful that they will be the next target of the mob. Biden saying that black people aren't smart enough to get ID or work phone apps in order to vote (and Hollywood jumping in to dishonestly virtue signal) isn't just untrue, it's also very offensive to black people and racist in itself. It's a bigotry of low expectations that does nothing but benefit the virtue signallers while they try to get your money.

All of this nonsense has no place in a comic book movie that is supposed to be there for entertainment. Instead it will destroy the modern fables we love, just as it has Doctor Who, Star Wars, Star Trek, almost everything from DC and Marvel comics, etc.

 

[Lysander]

Again, I think this is purely the media whipping people up into a frenzy. Men have played women for years in the theatre and vice versa. Black actors have played white characters and vice versa for years.

This is all Superman is. Theatre; theatre on screen. It's the media, yet again, trying to create a storm about it so they can make themselves relevant and get more social media clicks. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire diversity movement existed because it benefited the media and 'actors' more than anybody [I just noticed Tom Cruise has given back three Golden Globes because there's not enough diversity in the GG panel - like he gives a crap].

 

[ianh]

Even if a studio is saying “let’s do a superman story specifically where he is black so as to send a message” (which I acknowledge they probably are doing here), I still don’t see how that can be properly construed as any of those things (I.e. “superman cannot be a white man”, “all portrayals where superman is white can and/or must be disregarded” or “we must do so to punish white people”). It’s just not the same, at all, and I do think it’s ultimately unhelpful and perpetuating of racial issues to deem it as some sort of “attack on whiteness” when it really isn’t.

Again, in the current times, this isn't being seen by some as "lets make a superman film who happens to be black" but instead "lets replace white superman with black superman", effectively changing the superman Canon and erasing "white superman" - see below.

Even if it does not expressly say so, it’s not going to be ‘rewriting canon’. It’s not taking any of the other material or depictions away. The recent Joker film was entirely its own thing - why can’t this be any different?

I think the concern is that, despite having no evidence for this yet, folks believe that this WILL be rewriting Canon, rather than being a Joker style "Alternate Universe (AU)" version, hence the "outrage" being poured out by folks on the web. Frankly as we know absolutely nothing about this film other than the desired skin colour of 3 people employed to create it, I feel like people are making some very big jumps with the guesses of the direction this film will take and I'll reserve my own opinion until we have some actual facts.

Personally I'd be happy with an AU black superman story as long as the film is well made, well acted and well written but I understand the concern that in the rush to "send a message" the studio might create a bad film but one which leads to any legitimate criticism being silenced as Racism, as history has shown happens with films like with female Ghostbusters, The Last Jedi etc where all criticism was derided as sexism, racism etc.

It would be interesting to see how, for example, the civil rights movement in the US would have been effected by a black superman. Perhaps it would make the struggles more difficult? Genuinely, could be a really interesting film, much like the Red Son comic. However, a less intelligent and dumb approach to diversity issues could be terrible.

That'd be a very interesting film! What would Clark Kent (now black but with the same upbringing in the Mid-West) do about racism now that he has the actual power needed to force a change? Would it make him "bad" if he forced a change through intimidation, or would he be though of as "good" because the change was absolutely necessary? Would he even need to use intimidation to force a change or would he only use his actions as a super-hero as a way to change peoples minds etc? It's a really interesting concept but I very much doubt the film would be doing anything as interesting as that, I think it's more likely to be another "Man Of Steel" type modern era film but with a black superman.

 

[Efour]

Winter soldier is the next black panther?

Who would **** the bed over that?

 

[Steampunk]

Looks like all bets are off on anything good happening. AT&T is spinning off (ie demerging from) Warner Brothers and merging it with Discovery. That pretty much means AT&T will have no influence on WB and JJ Abrams is in charge of the DCEU and will screw it up as he does with everything.

 

[Hedge]

Bit strange that people feel so passionately about it.

The reporting probably doesn't help.

It really should be as simple as saying "there's a new superman movie coming out and this other bloke is playing superman".

 

[Lysander]

Bit strange that people feel so passionately about it.

The reporting probably doesn't help.

It really should be as simple as saying "there's a new superman movie coming out and this other bloke is playing superman".

Yup, but that doesn't get as many clicks, does it? Neither does it inspire forum rage.

Much better to say: "Three ways the new Superman film bucks the trend: Superman is now going to be played by a black man, and the script writer is black too!! Wowwwww (and the third suprise is really crazy <<click here>>)."

 

[potatolord]

Yup, but that doesn't get as many clicks, does it? Neither does it inspire forum rage.

Much better to say: "Three ways the new Superman film bucks the trend: Superman is now going to be played by a black man, and the script writer is black too!! Wowwwww (and the third suprise is really crazy <<click here>>)."

"Photo 23 will blow your mind!!"

 

[fez]

It really should be as simple as saying "there's a new superman movie coming out and this other bloke is playing superman".

It really should be as simple and not shoehorning gender and racial politics into everything they can but that doesn't happen either.

Its kind of the big issue. When the people making something like a film or TV show feel that the most important part of the casting or directing decision is the colour, gender or sexuality of those involved its a red flag. Its not "here is a new ghostbusters" its "here is a new ghostbusters with an all female lead, a female director and if you don't like it you are a misogynist".

Plenty of shows change the gender, race etc of characters or simply have diverse casts and no one cares because they don't do it in some weird attempt to level the score or push an agenda.

Its not the media pushing these things, its the studios themselves in a lot of cases. They are making very calculated decisions that aren't related to source material or who is best for the project.

 

[Reality|Bites]

anyone else stopped getting the red flag replies thing top right or just me?

 

[Reality|Bites]

People seem to forget how big a thing the first lesbian kiss shown on Brookside was tbh! the nation was shocked to see it, nothing wrong with it but it not how most people live and want to view tv. you have to cater to the customer not the other way around.

 

[Zefan]

Plenty of shows change the gender, race etc of characters or simply have diverse casts and no one cares because they don't do it in some weird attempt to level the score or push an agenda.

Its not the media pushing these things, its the studios themselves in a lot of cases. They are making very calculated decisions that aren't related to source material or who is best for the project.

Exactly. Battlestar Galactica did this well with Starbuck I think. If I do wonder what my opinion might be on it this was being filmed/about to be released today however, instead of years ago. I have the feeling I would definitely initially expect the woke inquisition.

 

[arknor]

stealing white super heroes is cultural appropriation, I'm sure there would be outrage if white actors started replacing traditionally black super heroes...

why do they have to make superman black? why not just make a new superhero we haven't seen a million times before.

seems more like a message to the white man and point scoring.

I'm sure there will be claims about your racist if you don't like it but I'm sure many of us would be the same if you wanted to make Morpheus white in a matrix reboot, or in a shawshank remake with a white morgan freeman.

they got it right the first time

 

[Reality|Bites]

there is a difference between a natural and a forced change I would say