Isn't that one of the major investigation points of FFP, I know City got charged because they wen from £20m a year to £250m or something similar, FFP makes sure there isn't some quick magical jump in sponsorship deals designed to hide large investments.
Newcastle takeover???
- Thread starter Bigpig
- Start date
Isn't that one of the major investigation points of FFP, I know City got charged because they wen from £20m a year to £250m or something similar, FFP makes sure there isn't some quick magical jump in sponsorship deals designed to hide large investments.
Soldato
- Joined
- 14 Oct 2007
- Posts
- 9,255
- Location
- newcastle
City got charged because they said the deal was worth £60m when it was really worth a little over £10m, nothing to stop the Saudi’s coming in and saying we want to sponsor your shirts for £800m over the next 4 years or the stadium name, look at the amazon deal with spurs new stadium
City were charged in 2014 because they failed to meet FFP limits. Part of the reason why they failed to meet FFP limits was because UEFA didn't accept the values of the commercial agreements City signed with Abu Dhabi companies. Iinm UEFA looked at nearly £120m worth of commercial deals involving City and Abu Dhabi companies and discounted them by around 50%. City have subsequently been charged again as the football leaks stuff revealed that City provided false information to UEFA.
So yea, the Saudi's can sign a mega commercial agreement with Newcastle but independent sponsorship consultants will look at that deal and discount it to a market value - as above, City's deals were slashed in half and they weren't crazy £200m per year deals. As for look at Spurs/Amazon, firstly what deal? Every 3-4 months there's an article claiming Spurs are close to signing a £20m per year naming rights deal yet here we are nearly 2 years after the stadium was meant to open with no deal. It's almost as if these articles are being leaked by Spurs to flush out some interest. And secondly, whatever deal Spurs eventually sign will just be used as some kind of benchmark to find the fair market value of naming rights for St James. They'll also look at the £1m per year deals at Brighton and Bournemouth and then decide what would have been a fair value for Newcastle.
I was about to say, they must measure these deals against market value or FFP would be worthless in many respects.
We know by now in football that just because an owner is very rich, it doesn't necessarily mean they're going to pump a club full of cash. It's down to them.
I'm not saying anyone on here is doing it, but watching some Newcastle fans defend the Saudi regime, while expectantly waiting to sign Mbappe, is most hilarious.
We know by now in football that just because an owner is very rich, it doesn't necessarily mean they're going to pump a club full of cash. It's down to them.
I'm not saying anyone on here is doing it, but watching some Newcastle fans defend the Saudi regime, while expectantly waiting to sign Mbappe, is most hilarious.
It be an interesting couple of weeks for sure.
I know very little about FFP or how it works.
I believe for the owners test they had to submit a 3 year plan of expected income and investments and their overall plan for the club.
It's quite clear they are coming to make their mark so big things will happen. Why waste their time if that is not the case.
There was story's a month or two ago about Allegri having talks with the Saudi's about Newcastle if the takeover happened. Now the odds have been slashed.
I know very little about FFP or how it works.
I believe for the owners test they had to submit a 3 year plan of expected income and investments and their overall plan for the club.
It's quite clear they are coming to make their mark so big things will happen. Why waste their time if that is not the case.
There was story's a month or two ago about Allegri having talks with the Saudi's about Newcastle if the takeover happened. Now the odds have been slashed.
Very few football supporters have morals @Robbo, it's far from unique to Newcastle supporters and this deal.
Back in the early 2000's, before he bought City, Thaksin Shinawatra was a signature away from investing £60-80m into Liverpool. To put that into perspective, he was buying new issued shares which would have made him 30% owner, today that would cost £600m+. There was a huge backlash at the time due to his human rights record and that, coupled with anger back in Thailand at him trying to use some state money, ultimately ended the deal. In todays twitter fan era I'm not sure that would have happened.
Back in the early 2000's, before he bought City, Thaksin Shinawatra was a signature away from investing £60-80m into Liverpool. To put that into perspective, he was buying new issued shares which would have made him 30% owner, today that would cost £600m+. There was a huge backlash at the time due to his human rights record and that, coupled with anger back in Thailand at him trying to use some state money, ultimately ended the deal. In todays twitter fan era I'm not sure that would have happened.
Yeah, sponsorship being in line with market value is a major part of FFP. Especially sponsorship that comes from companies affiliated with owners. At least that's UEFA anyway.
Newcastle owners could theoretically invest heavily to begin with, but as soon as they start to qualify for European Competition the accounts for three years previous would come under scrutiny. In all likelihood they'd suffer fines and suspended bans so would quickly have to start falling into line.
Newcastle owners could theoretically invest heavily to begin with, but as soon as they start to qualify for European Competition the accounts for three years previous would come under scrutiny. In all likelihood they'd suffer fines and suspended bans so would quickly have to start falling into line.
I don't blame them. I'd be pleased in their position really, it's just funny!
Big story in tomorrow's Times regarding beIN sport contacting the PL and urging them to block the Saudi takeover. For those that don't know, there's no love lost between Qatar and the Saudi's and more specifically, the Saudi's being behind a massive piracy operation in the middle east, ripping off beIN sports broadcasts including coverage of PL games for years. The PL along with FIFA even paid for an investigation into who was behind 'beoutQ' and have previously attempted legal action against the state owned Saudi satellite company that was broadcasting this service.
It'll be interesting to see how big an obstacle this situation will be to any takeover. beIN are one of, if not the biggest overseas broadcasting partner for the PL and with their expansion into Europe, it won't be long before they're as valuable to the PL as Sky are.
It'll be interesting to see how big an obstacle this situation will be to any takeover. beIN are one of, if not the biggest overseas broadcasting partner for the PL and with their expansion into Europe, it won't be long before they're as valuable to the PL as Sky are.
There's the Amnesty International thing too - not as big a deal I'm sure, but it's still an issue.
None of those issues will stop this deal. It would not fail the ownership test. That's the only thing in the way and the new owners meet every single criteria.
The only people that can stop this is the government and well they holding hands with the Saudi's. Also the Rebeuns are very heavily linked with government.
Wouldn't be surprised if Richard Keys is behind it lol.
The only people that can stop this is the government and well they holding hands with the Saudi's. Also the Rebeuns are very heavily linked with government.
Wouldn't be surprised if Richard Keys is behind it lol.
Last edited:
I think it's somewhat optimistic to think the PL can't block this deal. As above, the PL is a private members club with the members setting the rules. They absolutely can block the deal if they chose to, whether they do or whether they don't want the headache of legal challenges is another matter of course.
What do you think the owners of Liverpool, Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and even your mid table clubs are thinking right now? Do you think they want another potential rival? Again, who knows what will ultimately happen but I'd be stunned if a number of clubs weren't pushing the League to check whether this Saudi deal breaks any current PL rules. Like I said last night, the PL acknowledged that the Saudi's were behind beoutQ and attempted to take legal action against another state back company, ultimately with the same owner/controller.
What do you think the owners of Liverpool, Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and even your mid table clubs are thinking right now? Do you think they want another potential rival? Again, who knows what will ultimately happen but I'd be stunned if a number of clubs weren't pushing the League to check whether this Saudi deal breaks any current PL rules. Like I said last night, the PL acknowledged that the Saudi's were behind beoutQ and attempted to take legal action against another state back company, ultimately with the same owner/controller.
I believe the Leagues ‘fit and proper person’ test looks more at personal dealings the investors and owners have had rather than anything further. I don’t believe they will have any real grounds to block the deal despite the obvious Human Rights record of KSA.
The potential of Newcastle is certainly up there with City. They’re the biggest one club city in England, everyone in the town supports the club (a few moved in from Sunderland and Middlesbrough I guess!) and the stadium is right in the centre of the city. While it does limit expansion a little they don’t really need a massive improvement.
I believe this as already been taken to court in France with Bein getting massive fines.
I believe the deal is worth 500m from Bein. So they are basically trying to blackmail.
I very much doubt the PL would want a long legal battle with PIF. It's a battle they will not win as there is no clear reason to stop the deal.
I believe the deal is worth 500m from Bein. So they are basically trying to blackmail.
I very much doubt the PL would want a long legal battle with PIF. It's a battle they will not win as there is no clear reason to stop the deal.
beIN getting massive fines for the Saudi's stealing their broadcasts? 
The PL, on several ocassions, attempted to hire lawyers in Saudi Arabia to take legal action against Arabsat. Needless to say, they didn't have much joy attempting to sue a state owned company in Saudi Arabia.
And why do you say there's no reason to stop the deal? There is the fit and proper owners test. Mohammed bin Salman is the ultimate owner and controller of PIF. All things being equal, do you believe the man that the US senate found responsble for the murder of a journalist a fit and proper owner? Do you think the man/state that FIFA and the PL found responsible for the biggest organised piracy operation ever to be fit and proper owners? Now I said all things being equal because I know that the PL picks and chooses when they apply fit and proper owner tests however the rules are very much in place that give the PL grounds for blocking this deal. Again, that's not to say that they will. Historically the PL have avoided getting involved in legal battles whenever possible.
edit: the reason why this beIN story is big is because the one thing that has motivated the PL is money. beIN sports are one of the biggest rights holders and could possibly become the biggest in the coming years. The PL won't want to bite the hand that feeds them.
The PL, on several ocassions, attempted to hire lawyers in Saudi Arabia to take legal action against Arabsat. Needless to say, they didn't have much joy attempting to sue a state owned company in Saudi Arabia.
And why do you say there's no reason to stop the deal? There is the fit and proper owners test. Mohammed bin Salman is the ultimate owner and controller of PIF. All things being equal, do you believe the man that the US senate found responsble for the murder of a journalist a fit and proper owner? Do you think the man/state that FIFA and the PL found responsible for the biggest organised piracy operation ever to be fit and proper owners? Now I said all things being equal because I know that the PL picks and chooses when they apply fit and proper owner tests however the rules are very much in place that give the PL grounds for blocking this deal. Again, that's not to say that they will. Historically the PL have avoided getting involved in legal battles whenever possible.
edit: the reason why this beIN story is big is because the one thing that has motivated the PL is money. beIN sports are one of the biggest rights holders and could possibly become the biggest in the coming years. The PL won't want to bite the hand that feeds them.
Soldato
- Joined
- 14 Oct 2007
- Posts
- 9,255
- Location
- newcastle
No they were found to have been untruthful and false allegationsbeIN getting massive fines for the Saudi's stealing their broadcasts?
The PL, on several ocassions, attempted to hire lawyers in Saudi Arabia to take legal action against Arabsat. Needless to say, they didn't have much joy attempting to sue a state owned company in Saudi Arabia.
And why do you say there's no reason to stop the deal? There is the fit and proper owners test. Mohammed bin Salman is the ultimate owner and controller of PIF. All things being equal, do you believe the man that the US senate found responsble for the murder of a journalist a fit and proper owner? Do you think the man/state that FIFA and the PL found responsible for the biggest organised piracy operation ever to be fit and proper owners? Now I said all things being equal because I know that the PL picks and chooses when they apply fit and proper owner tests however the rules are very much in place that give the PL grounds for blocking this deal. Again, that's not to say that they will. Historically the PL have avoided getting involved in legal battles whenever possible.
edit: the reason why this beIN story is big is because the one thing that has motivated the PL is money. beIN sports are one of the biggest rights holders and could possibly become the biggest in the coming years. The PL won't want to bite the hand that feeds them.
https://twitter.com/DaleWighton/status/1252879302565130242