Next Gen HP VR Headset

Doggie2k · 24 May 2020 at 10:27

Can't wait to see what they have come up with! Didn't bother upgrading from my CV1 as I didnt think they offered much more apart from less SDE.

shadowbane · 24 May 2020 at 11:46

danswan said:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comme...m_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=tp_title

https://mspoweruser.com/next-gen-hp-vr-headset-valve-microsoft/

Well that looks like it's wired! Seems a misstep nowadays doesn't it? I personally don't struggle much with wired just weight and heat

Zairs · 24 May 2020 at 17:24

https://uploadvr.com/walkingcat-hp-headset-leak/

Glad I am on the waiting list for the index

Looks like it s gonna be a budget headset to take on the rift s

lokiss · 24 May 2020 at 19:20

If that's to be believed then it's not all bad news, as an index owner there's a couple of things I wouldn't want to lose were I to swap out. The level of comfort of the valve head strap is something I can use for hours without irritation, better even than the comfortable but loose contraption DAS. The audio is a no brainer, it's light years ahead of anything in sound and comfort level. I really do value the form factor of the Index, compared to the old Vive and Quest I've had access to it's just easy to go for hours without any discomfort.

If this thing comes with the higher res panels and comes below the standalone price of another Index HMD then I might grab one to drop for racing, pinball and films, what I spend most of my time doing in VR.

danlightbulb · 25 May 2020 at 13:42

What resolution would a headset have to be to get the same sharpness as a 1080p monitor at normal (18-24") viewing distance?

The thing I most noticed about VR was sharpness when looking at things in the distance. Sharpness at close distances was perfect, but looking far away makes things look pixelated.

A monitor delivers the same sharpness at distance and close up, and is similar to my eyesight in real life.

lokiss · 25 May 2020 at 13:53

danlightbulb said:
The thing I most noticed about VR was sharpness when looking at things in the distance. Sharpness at close distances was perfect, but looking far away makes things look pixelated.

it's the screen door effect. On the index what you see perfectly close up on that Quest is what you see at distance, you'll have that 1080p moment if you try one or id imagine what the new HP will deliver.

danlightbulb · 25 May 2020 at 13:59

lokiss said:
it's the screen door effect. On the index what you see perfectly close up on that Quest is what you see at distance, you'll have that 1080p moment if you try one or id imagine what the new HP will deliver.

Hmm not sure. I don't notice the screen door normally. Sometimes I can see it in a static image if I look for it. But the distance sharpness feels a different issue. Here are some screenshots of Asseto corsa I took while trying to improve settings. One is via my monitor and the other is a screen grab from within the quest. I don't think this is a screen door issue more a general resolution issue, because screen door is an optical thing that wouldn't come through on a screen grab?

In these images I was stopped at the same point on the track. Notice how sharp the silverstone sign is, yet in VR its blurred like I don't have my contact lenses in.

Notice also that the numbers on the speedo are not that sharp, only just readable.

Twinz · 25 May 2020 at 14:18

That looks like some sort of upscailing. Like watching a 720p image on a 1080p monitor. Good for performance, but at the cost of clarity.

danlightbulb · 25 May 2020 at 14:50

Twinz said:
That looks like some sort of upscailing. Like watching a 720p image on a 1080p monitor. Good for performance, but at the cost of clarity.

Yes and so far Ive not been able to figure out what's causing it. Ive tried playing with the supersampling settings in Steam VR and also on the Oculus debug tool, and they made minimal difference to visuals, especially in the distance, but did hugely impact performance beyond what my GPU is capable of. However framerate aside, I was trying to find the limit of the display and was unable to determine it.

Hence my question on what resolution would be needed. The quest is already at a higher resolution than my monitor, but viewing distance is a lot closer obviously.

Unfortunately ive only ever tried the quest because I felt it was best for my needs offering the versatility of wireless and on board games. Its not possible to be able to try out the Index or rift s.

lokiss · 25 May 2020 at 16:43

danlightbulb said:
Hmm not sure. I don't notice the screen door normally.

Honestly? I've access to both and used a Vive for 3 years that was a little worst than the quest but not by much. After using an Index for a year then using a Quest, it's a horror show going back to SDE, it's the biggest initial 'wow' when you upgrade from a cv1 or OG vive. The screen door kills distance viewing. Again, the clarity you see up close is matched up with distance on the Index, i don't even have to mess about with SS to achieve that, you want clarity at distance then look at a reverb or Index, or not far behind (i presume) Rift S.

danlightbulb · 25 May 2020 at 18:40

lokiss said:
Honestly? I've access to both and used a Vive for 3 years that was a little worst than the quest but not by much. After using an Index for a year then using a Quest, it's a horror show going back to SDE, it's the biggest initial 'wow' when you upgrade from a cv1 or OG vive. The screen door kills distance viewing. Again, the clarity you see up close is matched up with distance on the Index, i don't even have to mess about with SS to achieve that, you want clarity at distance then look at a reverb or Index, or not far behind (i presume) Rift S.

That doesn't explain the difference in resolution when looking at the screenshots though. One is sharp, the other is not. I could understand if screen door was making a sharp image look blurred, but the screenshots would then be identical because they bypass the optics, taken direct from hardware.

danswan · 25 May 2020 at 19:34

I note you are on a Quest. Are you using wireless and virtual desktop, or the Oculus link? Assuming the link, have you tried the pixel density adjustment here ?

danswan · 25 May 2020 at 19:36

And btw, the resolution just isn't there yet on the Quest - one reason I'm monitoring this thread carefully. It's still amazing and way beyond any monitor at any resolution imo though, just the sense of depth and immersion means I could never go back to monitors for driving games now

danlightbulb · 25 May 2020 at 20:32

danswan said:
I note you are on a Quest. Are you using wireless and virtual desktop, or the Oculus link? Assuming the link, have you tried the pixel density adjustment here ?

I did have a play yes, and couldn't see much difference. The oculus debug tool is a little cumbersome though. Hopefully they can bring this into main settings in a future update.

danswan said:
And btw, the resolution just isn't there yet on the Quest - one reason I'm monitoring this thread carefully. It's still amazing and way beyond any monitor at any resolution imo though, just the sense of depth and immersion means I could never go back to monitors for driving games now

That's why I asked what resolution a headset would need to be to match the sharpness of a 1080p monitor, at least before optical issues like screen door effect then layer on.

Display resolutions of the main headsets are as follows:

Quest 1440x1600 per eye, so that's 4.6 Mega pixels.
Rift S 2560x1440 total, 3.7 megapixels.
Index also 1440x1600 per eye, 4.6 MP
HP reverb 2160 x 2160 per eye, 9.3 MP.

Compared to a 1080p monitor which has 1920 x 1080 = 2.1 MP.

Looking at my screenshots, it feels as if the Quest should be running sharper than it is. Hence I don't know if its my settings.

danlightbulb · 25 May 2020 at 21:05

Ive took some more screenshots just in the oculus link home environment.

I cant see much difference if I change the settings but it kills performance. However the screenshot in this case looks very clear and sharp. So my question now is why Assetto corsa doesn't look as sharp at the same distance, as this boat clearly does.

danswan · 25 May 2020 at 21:34

danlightbulb said:
I did have a play yes, and couldn't see much difference. The oculus debug tool is a little cumbersome though. Hopefully they can bring this into main settings in a future update.

That's why I asked what resolution a headset would need to be to match the sharpness of a 1080p monitor, at least before optical issues like screen door effect then layer on.

Display resolutions of the main headsets are as follows:

Quest 1440x1600 per eye, so that's 4.6 Mega pixels.

Rift S 2560x1440 total, 3.7 megapixels.

Index also 1440x1600 per eye, 4.6 MP

HP reverb 2160 x 2160 per eye, 9.3 MP.

Compared to a 1080p monitor which has 1920 x 1080 = 2.1 MP.

Looking at my screenshots, it feels as if the Quest should be running sharper than it is. Hence I don't know if its my settings.

I have looked at your screens, they look similar to what I'm used to when racing on the Quest tbf. I also find it frustrating sometimes, being used to a tight 1440p display, it can sometimes be a little underwhelming if the resolution is the only thing being considered.

It's not an apples to apples comparison trying to compare a 1080p monitor to your Quest display - 2 tiny screens with a great big magnifying glass lens 1 inch from your eye is not the same as sitting 30 inches back from a 1080p monitor. If you sit with your eye 1 inch from a 1080p monitor it won't look great

danlightbulb · 25 May 2020 at 21:37

danswan said:
I have looked at your screens, they look similar to what I'm used to when racing on the Quest tbf. I also find it frustrating sometimes, being used to a tight 1440p display, it can sometimes be a little underwhelming if the resolution is the only thing being considered.

It's not an apples to apples comparison trying to compare a 1080p monitor to your Quest display - 2 tiny screens with a great big magnifying glass lens 1 inch from your eye is not the same as sitting 30 inches back from a 1080p monitor. If you sit with your eye 1 inch from a 1080p monitory it won't look great

I do understand that but look up at the screenshot of the boat I just took. That's way sharper than what I'm seeing in Assetto corsa.

I feel I should be able to get the same sharpness in AC, even if it kills framerate. At least then I'll know its possible and can upgrade GPU to get the framerate up.

danswan · 25 May 2020 at 21:48

Maybe there's something weird going on with Steam VR? When I play Assetto Corsa on the Quest, I use the link cable and set the renderer to Ocus Rift, I don't use Steam VR at all.. Have you tried that?

MaDMaX** · 25 May 2020 at 22:17

danswan said:
Maybe there's something weird going on with Steam VR? When I play Assetto Corsa on the Quest, I use the link cable and set the renderer to Ocus Rift, I don't use Steam VR at all.. Have you tried that?

i'd also be interested to know how you do that, how can you play a steam game in VR without using Steam VR ?

danlightbulb · 25 May 2020 at 22:36

@danswan yes as @MaDMaX** says, would be great if you could explain how to do that as I can't see an option for it.

I have done some more looking at settings. If you set the pixels per display to 0.3, it makes a huge visual difference. You can clearly see the poor low resolution. Setting it then back to 1 makes things far better obviously. But then set it to say 1.4, and the difference is minimal. For this testing I was using the Oculus link home environment, looking out to the buildings on the left side.

Then I booted up the PC version of space pirate trainer. Firstly, noticed that you cant change the PPD in game, it has no effect. You have to restart the game each time. But if you set the PPD to 0.3, massive difference. set back to 1, normal. Set to 1.4, barely any difference.

Yet on 1.4, I can hear my GPU fans spinning up to full. So it is working the GPU hard but not being reflected in the display. Aside from artifacts and tearing, which I was getting if I change the setting to more than about 1.4.

I would say that in the Oculus link home environment, the distance sharpness is better than I was getting in space pirate trainer at the same setting, which is better than I'm getting in assetto corsa for some reason.

Something must be driving this.

Sorry this is drifting off topic now. Probably need a dedicated VR settings thread.