NHS=Negligent Health Service

Dis86 · 18 May 2022 at 09:39

Well, fun one last night. Dad rushed in to hospital with suspected (now confirmed) advanced sepsis. Ambulance was going to be 3 hours so my sister dropped him off. This was at about 18:00.
I called the hospital at 19:30, which is when I found out, asking if it would be possible to see him.
"No". Its beyond visiting hours and I need an appointment. I explained he was critically ill and I couldn't book an appointment before now as he'd only just been taken in. Besides, why do I need an appointment?
"Because of Covid".
But I don't have any symptoms, I'm triple jabbed and there are no covid restrictions in effect.
"We need to protect our staff".
What, your staff are on lockdown in the hospital?!
"No".
So then they're free to do whatever they want, go wherever they want and be around whoever they want? So how exactly is me booking an appointment protecting them from Bob in ASDA?
"You need to book an appointment".
He might be dead by then.

booyaka · 18 May 2022 at 10:06

Whilst it's not ideal - patients in a hospital ward/area are way more susceptible to covid/infections brought in from outside.

I have to still do an LFT and wear a mask when going to visit my mum who's in a care home. I'm fine with that - it's a small price to pay to protect the other patients and staff within the hospitals/homes

It's not the hospital rules, in Scotland similar rules apply in lots of hospitals still, it's Department for public health that generally still advised on the masks/appointment situation within hospitals. Each one can vary a little.

I hope your Dad is ok and recovers.

MikeTheNative · 18 May 2022 at 10:19

I'm rather annoyed this week. Got a knee injury playing rugby, physio is confident that it's an acl injury, gp thinks it's one too.
Put in for an MRI 4 weeks ago and found out Monday that it's been rejected as i need an Xray before an MRI for a ligament injury................
It's not even they would do an xray now and the MRI a few days later, GP has to put in another request for an Xray, wait a few weeks, get xray which would be clear as it's a ligament injury then back in the queue for an MRI.
I've just paid for my own instead which I'm having Friday now. Just annoyed that I could have paid for my own 4 weeks ago.

Dis86 · 18 May 2022 at 12:01

booyaka said:
Whilst it's not ideal - patients in a hospital ward/area are way more susceptible to covid/infections brought in from outside.

I have to still do an LFT and wear a mask when going to visit my mum who's in a care home. I'm fine with that - it's a small price to pay to protect the other patients and staff within the hospitals/homes

It's not the hospital rules, in Scotland similar rules apply in lots of hospitals still, it's Department for public health that generally still advised on the masks/appointment situation within hospitals. Each one can vary a little.

I hope your Dad is ok and recovers.

But the excuse given was protecting staff
Staff who are free to do whatever they want with no restrictions.

booyaka · 18 May 2022 at 12:45

Dis86 said:
But the excuse given was protecting staff
Staff who are free to do whatever they want with no restrictions.

yes - that's not right if that's what they said.

Frustrating all the same - Just been to see my mum in the home and staff still wearing masks, LFT needed on entry and mask to be worn inside.

I know my wife who runs Maternity ward at local hospital is very frustrated with current situation as staff are still to wear masks whilst at work, but patients, new mothers, fathers coming in etc are asked to do the same but if they refuse it's very difficult to implement things. But protocol from on high is that masks still to be worn and limited visiting time still to be implemented but it's very hard to balance peoples expectations of "no mask needed now" versus protecting the paitents/staff/babies etc....

All a bit of a mess

Resident · 18 May 2022 at 12:57

Dis86 said:
But the excuse given was protecting staff
Staff who are free to do whatever they want with no restrictions.

My 3yr old son recently underwent neurosurgery to install a shunt/valve to control his Hydrocephalus.

I visited upto 10pm. Only if I entered during the day (prior to 5pm) was I asked to wear a mask and only then was it required whilst in the main lobby/waiting area. Once I was on the ward I was free to remove it.

SexyGreyFox · 18 May 2022 at 14:46

Quite surprised it hasn't made our local rag but most Admin staff got sent home at 1pm because all computer systems and phones aren't working and we've called a major incident.

Goodie · 18 May 2022 at 14:58

SexyGreyFox said:
Quite surprised it hasn't made our local rag but most Admin staff got sent home at 1pm because all computer systems and phones aren't working and we've called a major incident.

First I’ve heard? Absolutely no issues at all in Trent or maternity buildings and I haven’t had anything to say of issues across the site?

V F · 18 May 2022 at 16:46

SexyGreyFox said:
Quite surprised it hasn't made our local rag but most Admin staff got sent home at 1pm because all computer systems and phones aren't working and we've called a major incident.

Crazy world it sometimes seems. Reminds me when shops had power cuts and was told, customers to leave the items at the checkout, leave to shut because of no power to the tills.

How did we function in the past decades with no computer technology?

Everything feels like an excuse to hide behind. It's starting to feel like a world of bots. No critical thinking anymore.

Minstadave · 18 May 2022 at 17:09

V F said:
How did we function in the past decades with no computer technology?

It was mad before electronic records. 3 days after your patient arrived 12 folders of notes would be dug out of the archive. You'd spend ages trying to find what you needed.

Patient would turn up to clinic with no notes so you'd waste ages trying just to figure out what had happened previously.

Xrays would be printed and carried around on the ward round in an envelope, usually lost

Blood results would be hand written in the notes on a little floe chart.

I kind of miss it but it sucked. I never had a time without computers during my training though.

Chris Wilson · 18 May 2022 at 17:14

At least we weren't all agog awaiting for the data breach that released one's complete medical record to every man, dog and insurance company

V F · 18 May 2022 at 17:15

Minstadave said:
It was mad before electronic records. 3 days after your patient arrived 12 folders of notes would be dug out of the archive. You'd spend ages trying to find what you needed.

Patient would turn up to clinic with no notes so you'd waste ages trying just to figure out what had happened previously.

Xrays would be printed and carried around on the ward round in an envelope, usually lost

Blood results would be hand written in the notes on a little floe chart.

I kind of miss it but it sucked. I never had a time without computers during my training though.

It still functioned though. Not sent home. It may have not been great but at least it still worked.

Werewolf · 18 May 2022 at 17:49

V F said:
It still functioned though. Not sent home. It may have not been great but at least it still worked.

It almost certainly led to much worse outcomes and many more mistakes.
If you don't get the notes until days after the patient has arrived it's no more help than not getting them in terms of starting immediate care.
It was relied on far more staff who dealt specifically with things like digging through the hospital copies of your records (if you'd been to that hosptial before), then more to carry them to wherever they were needed.

I have memories of my GP having to have a member of staff go to their paper records to dig out the folders when I had an appointment, then the GP spending quite some time looking through trying to find something.

My current GP's surgery until a few years back (when they got their new secondary, and much larger building) used to store a lot of the patient records in a reinforced double garage out the back as that was the only option to store them "on site", so I can quite imagine hospitals having what are basically warehouse spaces to store things in, and losing some/all of a patients records being trivially easy as you're utterly dependent on every person to handles them to do so correctly every time.

SexyGreyFox · 18 May 2022 at 17:51

Goodie said:
First I’ve heard? Absolutely no issues at all in Trent or maternity buildings and I haven’t had anything to say of issues across the site?

A Consultant came over from 233 for some IPT notes for an Inquest around noon and he said they were all working in the Ward. I believe most people in Springfield were sent home to work because you could get on with a NHS PC/laptop. I have to remote access so pointless.

V F · 18 May 2022 at 17:55

Werewolf said:
It almost certainly led to much worse outcomes and many more mistakes.
If you don't get the notes until days after the patient has arrived it's no more help than not getting them in terms of starting immediate care.
It was relied on far more staff who dealt specifically with things like digging through the hospital copies of your records (if you'd been to that hosptial before), then more to carry them to wherever they were needed.

I have memories of my GP having to have a member of staff go to their paper records to dig out the folders when I had an appointment, then the GP spending quite some time looking through trying to find something.

My current GP's surgery until a few years back (when they got their new secondary, and much larger building) used to store a lot of the patient records in a reinforced double garage out the back as that was the only option to store them "on site", so I can quite imagine hospitals having what are basically warehouse spaces to store things in, and losing some/all of a patients records being trivially easy as you're utterly dependent on every person to handles them to do so correctly every time.

Thing is, both the past and present is showing they're both inefficient when you hear so many saying they cannot get appointments. Well, you see the mess of today. Most people don't know who their doctor is. All the inefficiencies happening.

SexyGreyFox · 18 May 2022 at 17:55

Minstadave said:
It was mad before electronic records. 3 days after your patient arrived 12 folders of notes would be dug out of the archive. You'd spend ages trying to find what you needed

We still have normal notes, today I was cutting up a patients notes of 7 volumes which when stacked are 28" high.
Most stuff is now electronic but some of the systems are awful like K2 Maternity and Somerset Cancer.

Minstadave · 18 May 2022 at 18:43

V F said:
It still functioned though. Not sent home. It may have not been great but at least it still worked.

It functioned some of the time, there was no redudancy and it was terribly inefficient. Once a record was lost that was it, it was gone forever. Yes you didn't get whole site failures often but it needed to go as paper notes were just dangerous.

The current electronic systems are a total mess but are overall much better, when the electronic systems fail all the clinical work continues, we have plans in place to cope with this. Sending the admin staff home as they can't do anything useful is not a big issue.

Minstadave · 18 May 2022 at 18:44

SexyGreyFox said:
We still have normal notes, today I was cutting up a patients notes of 7 volumes which when stacked are 28" high.
Most stuff is now electronic but some of the systems are awful like K2 Maternity and Somerset Cancer.

Ah the joys of K2, awful system, have you tried Symphony? That is absolutely hideous, whoever programmed that UI needs to be shot.

Minstadave · 18 May 2022 at 18:47

V F said:
Thing is, both the past and present is showing they're both inefficient when you hear so many saying they cannot get appointments. Well, you see the mess of today. Most people don't know who their doctor is. All the inefficiencies happening.

Many GP practices have moved away from named doctors, even more reason for quick access to a patients records being vital.

SexyGreyFox · 18 May 2022 at 18:57

Werewolf said:
My current GP's surgery until a few years back (when they got their new secondary, and much larger building) used to store a lot of the patient records in a reinforced double garage out the back as that was the only option to store them "on site", so I can quite imagine hospitals having what are basically warehouse spaces to store things in, and losing some/all of a patients records being trivially easy as you're utterly dependent on every person to handles them to do so correctly every time.

Welcome to what we affectionally call Iron Maiden - https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.8...Kk8ShSpnw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&authuser=0
If I request a set of patient notes it did cost £50 to get them back and then £50 to send them back again but I expect it is a lot more now.
We probably request 6 volumes a week and some of them have nothing in them.

Also on the hospital site is Sutherland Records where all the current hospital notes are kept, those two buildings joined together are full (it isn't the UHNM research Centre)- https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.0081769,-2.2048558,96m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en&authuser=0