NHS=Negligent Health Service

GreatAuk said:
Maybe, but it kind of sounds like that's what the trust thought, hence they brought in this independent ergonomics expert. Who upheld a majority of the staff saying the vans weren't suitable.
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The problem is, as someone who used to be that independent expert, it sometimes pays to find issues.
Keep in mind that this cab is the same as the standard vehicle. The whole issue just seems very confused but does look like someone has dropped a bollock
 
Dis86 said:
The problem is, as someone who used to be that independent expert, it sometimes pays to find issues.
Keep in mind that this cab is the same as the standard vehicle. The whole issue just seems very confused but does look like someone has dropped a bollock
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Fair enough, but at the same time I think this may well be one of those 'no smoke without fire' situations. And even if the expert is erring too far on the side of caution, it's not really fair to be procuring these vans which will be uncomfortable and possibly dangerous for taller people who will be spending hours and hours driving them every day. Also a sex based discrimination aspect here that presumably the trust will have to be very careful of, given that the taller drivers will tend to be more from one sex than another.

Funnily enough, the poor adjustability of the ducato comes up on both top reviews on google:

Fiat Ducato review (2022)

Read our expert review of the Fiat Ducato large van, including details of the 2022 version, driving experience and value
www.parkers.co.uk
Lists the main 'cons' as
The best tech is optional
Cab is awkward in places
Noisy engines
Taller drivers will be cramped
Stiff ride
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This one is a bit less negative, but the issue still comes up:

Fiat Ducato van review | Auto Express

The Fiat Ducato large van offers lots of variety and introduces the latest safety tech to the class
www.autoexpress.co.uk www.autoexpress.co.uk
Very tall drivers may struggle with the lack of seat adjustment and the seats could use more side support, but generally the Ducato is comfortable enough
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GreatAuk said:
Fair enough, but at the same time I think this may well be one of those 'no smoke without fire' situations. And even if the expert is erring too far on the side of caution, it's not really fair to be procuring these vans which will be uncomfortable and possibly dangerous for taller people who will be spending hours and hours driving them every day. Also a sex based discrimination aspect here that presumably the trust will have to be very careful of, given that the taller drivers will tend to be more from one sex than another.

Funnily enough, the poor adjustability of the ducato comes up on both top reviews on google:

Fiat Ducato review (2022)

Read our expert review of the Fiat Ducato large van, including details of the 2022 version, driving experience and value
www.parkers.co.uk
Lists the main 'cons' as


This one is a bit less negative, but the issue still comes up:

Fiat Ducato van review | Auto Express

The Fiat Ducato large van offers lots of variety and introduces the latest safety tech to the class
www.autoexpress.co.uk www.autoexpress.co.uk
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"very tall drivers" that's the thing, 5ft 9 is below average height for males so that's a heck of a low benchmark!

Reminded me of the problems up here when they switched to the 'new type' about 20 years ago. They were all too wide and tall for a lot of hospital awnings and the workshop sheds.
 
Dis86 said:
The problem is, as someone who used to be that independent expert, it sometimes pays to find issues.
Keep in mind that this cab is the same as the standard vehicle. The whole issue just seems very confused but does look like someone has dropped a bollock
Click to expand...
Reading the article it sounds like there is also an issue with the pedals if you've got work shoes on, which in the case of ambulance staff will typically be relatively hard wearing steel toe capped shoes/boots often of the "rigger"/"doc martin" style, which means they're likely to be a different shape to say normal shoes (slightly wider, slightly longer, much stiffer).

Probably not a problem for shorter staff who will typically have smaller feet, but being a size 12-13 shoe wearer, I know exactly how much of an issue it can be in some "smaller" vehicles as I tend to find my normal shoes get damaged/wear due to the position I have to put my feet in on some cars, and I know that I cannot wear certain styles of shoe at all with any degree of comfort or have to be very careful if I do as they do catch or become very uncomfortable after a short run*.

My guess is that whoever organised the purchase of these vehicles either didn't do testing with a range of the drivers who were in their work wear, or didn't listen to the feed back and decided the comments were just people complaining for the sake of it.
IIRC something similar has happened in the US with their new infantry scout transport thingy, which apparently can't take the average soldier with his pack on (so it has to be stowed on the roof frame), and they can't get in/out quickly despite it being open sided, nor can they easily bring their small arms to bear (the vehicle's main selling point was that it was largely based on a standard civilian vehicle for the chasis/engine etc but with two extra people crammed into what would have been the cabin).

*To the point that there are times I've taken a "driving" pair of shoes and a "walking" pair, which is definitely not an option for ambulance staff.
 
Werewolf said:
Reading the article it sounds like there is also an issue with the pedals if you've got work shoes on, which in the case of ambulance staff will typically be relatively hard wearing steel toe capped shoes/boots often of the "rigger"/"doc martin" style, which means they're likely to be a different shape to say normal shoes (slightly wider, slightly longer, much stiffer).

Probably not a problem for shorter staff who will typically have smaller feet, but being a size 12-13 shoe wearer, I know exactly how much of an issue it can be in some "smaller" vehicles as I tend to find my normal shoes get damaged/wear due to the position I have to put my feet in on some cars, and I know that I cannot wear certain styles of shoe at all with any degree of comfort or have to be very careful if I do as they do catch or become very uncomfortable after a short run*.

My guess is that whoever organised the purchase of these vehicles either didn't do testing with a range of the drivers who were in their work wear, or didn't listen to the feed back and decided the comments were just people complaining for the sake of it.
IIRC something similar has happened in the US with their new infantry scout transport thingy, which apparently can't take the average soldier with his pack on (so it has to be stowed on the roof frame), and they can't get in/out quickly despite it being open sided, nor can they easily bring their small arms to bear (the vehicle's main selling point was that it was largely based on a standard civilian vehicle for the chasis/engine etc but with two extra people crammed into what would have been the cabin).

*To the point that there are times I've taken a "driving" pair of shoes and a "walking" pair, which is definitely not an option for ambulance staff.
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It just sounds like an absolute mess. And I've had the same issues with pedals and made the same adjustment you did.
One really hopes that for such a balls up that there wasn't some sort of...incentive given to the individual in charge of procurement.
It's something I do at work and every item of plant I purchase I ensure is tested by a number of operators first.and for an extended period. We then conduct a full review and analysis afterwards with their opinions being one of the main decision makers. They're the ones using the things day in and day out.
 
SexyGreyFox said:
What's funny is there is a family around here called the Marshalls, 5 sons and the smallest is 6ft 5ins, the Dad was 7ft 0.5ins and the only vehicle he could drive was an old ambulance.
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Indeed -

Dis86 said:
"very tall drivers" that's the thing, 5ft 9 is below average height for males so that's a heck of a low benchmark!
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despite this the BBC article fails to discuss why other trusts don't seem to have complained - let's have some due diligence, rather than bbc click-bait.
If you look at 'journalists' other articles https://muckrack.com/matt-precey/articles, if they had linked the ambulance report that would be more credible

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I see it as the negligentunderfunded health service - they are committed if you can get see themV .. if only boris had increased nhs funding by the amount his bus said got sent to the eu every week.

Two sets of relations norfolk and southampton told me they couldn't get gp appointments closer than 3 weeks away.

& Last Wednesday spent 6 hours in a&E addenbrooks for some stitches, the local small accidents facility, first port of call couldn't fix it ,
driving to addenbrooks the free at the point of use service also cost £16.50 for parking

52157458110_bd865756e2_o_d.jpg
 
Begbie said:
Considered going private?
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Had my gallbladder removed privately, NHS funded. If you are ever referred to have surgery privately but funded by NHS, please take it!

Saw consultant on Friday and had the surgery on Thursday evening. Had own room with FREE tv, own en suite. Unable to use shower due to dressings. Plus parking was free for my parents to take me there.
 
It's a self-fulfilling problem.

Your gallbladder removal would have cost the NHS a LOT more than if it was done in house, further depleting in-house resources, further pushing more patients to the profit-driven private sector.
 
jpaul said:
Indeed -



despite this the BBC article fails to discuss why other trusts don't seem to have complained - let's have some due diligence, rather than bbc click-bait.
If you look at 'journalists' other articles https://muckrack.com/matt-precey/articles, if they had linked the ambulance report that would be more credible

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I see it as the negligentunderfunded health service - they are committed if you can get see themV .. if only boris had increased nhs funding by the amount his bus said got sent to the eu every week.

Two sets of relations norfolk and southampton told me they couldn't get gp appointments closer than 3 weeks away.

& Last Wednesday spent 6 hours in a&E addenbrooks for some stitches, the local small accidents facility, first port of call couldn't fix it ,
driving to addenbrooks the free at the point of use service also cost £16.50 for parking

52157458110_bd865756e2_o_d.jpg
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I was in A&E (and subsequently admitted) the week before last. I waited 6 hours before giving up - despite requiring urgent IV fluids to save my kidneys. The receptionist laughed when I said I need to give up (no chairs, standing the whole time). I ended up going to a different A&E and being seen in 4 hours.

So I don't believe these stats at all, as those who gave up are not counted.
 
tres said:
It's a self-fulfilling problem.

Your gallbladder removal would have cost the NHS a LOT more than if it was done in house, further depleting in-house resources, further pushing more patients to the profit-driven private sector.
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I was lucky when I had mine done. The surgeon, whose name I cannot remember but was the spitting image of Sean connery, was retiring that day. He postponed his retirement and worked for free to take mine out.

Granted that's because I'd been misdiagnosed and crawled in to A and E on my hands and knees where they tried to send me home. He went absolutely ape-poop with the Dr's on department. It was sheer luck as he was walking out gifts in hands as I was crawling in.
 
So at 5:30pm yesterday afternoon, my elderly mother took a nasty fall in her retirement flat and has likely broken her hip. Welsh Ambulance service still cannot give her an ETA at almost 4am. Meanwhile my missus, my disabled self and the kids have raced down from Liverpool to be there for her, arrived after 1am as we didn't find out till later. Which took a good 4hrs. I know it's not the fault of those with boots on the ground but this is ridiculous. Ambulances apparently jammed up at the only A&E for the wider area unable to offload patients.

She's in agony and can barely move. How have things gotten this bad.
 
At a GP practice we used to registered - one of the GPs did a couple of sessions at the dermatology clinic at the main hospital as my dad had a skin tag removed just under the eye by him.

This was mid 00s.
 
Trifid said:
And how exactly is that not a reflection of the wider healthcare environment? Which the government is responsible for.
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I still don't get how any party can be accountable for a rise of 250+ patients extra!
I could blame GP Surgeries who are still mostly closed to patients but that's nothing to do with Labour/Tories.
 
SexyGreyFox said:
I still don't get how any party can be accountable for a rise of 250+ patients extra!
I could blame GP Surgeries who are still mostly closed to patients but that's nothing to do with Labour/Tories.
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Are they really closed? Are they really? I expect just like every other aspect of the health service they are running at 100% capacity and simply cannot see more people. I can’t possibly imagine that all your local GP surgeries are closed and doing nothing. If you can’t get appointments it’s much more likely that they heaving under the workload just like hospitals are
 
My Mum, finally got picked up around 10:30am today. Only because it was a shift change though. Poor guys where very frustrated with the current state of things. My Mum is still being treated from the back of the ambulance, along with 9 other crews and patients. Though she has been for an x-ray, the results are clear but they're very concerned with the type of pain and intensity of it, it's already an artificial hip.

So it's blood tests, ultra sound etc if that's all clear it's up to physio to see if they can get her moving. Absolutely worried sick right now.
 
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