NHS=Negligent Health Service

[Rroff]

Some people might consider my working as part time if I'm not in building 5 days per week. I work over 2 different surgeries throughout the week, and therefore people label me as part time (I've had people say this to me), because they know they cant see me on some days and assume I'm sitting with my feet up and not working 2 miles down the road. I have other partners and salaried docs who might do 6 sessions. well 6 sessions will be 33-36 hours, and the same 1:8 saturday mornings that I do, they will also do some remote work on "days off". Part time really isn't a fair descriptor for what they are doing.

Not disagreeing with what you say but it still leads to the perception for the general public - some of whom might blame the GP others just observing that their local service is increasing not served by full time GPs.

Personally don't blame people for seeking a better work life balance, if/when that is the case, anyhow.

 

[jpaul]

Utter nonsense... GP's are far from "part time"... Also, I can get in to see my GP within a week, or even the same day if I call early enough in the morning. People really need to stop tarring all GP's with the same broad brush, dipped in the finest "subjective personal experience" lead-based paint.
Wait times for operations have nothing to do with the GP's at all.. Throw your ire at the NHS and those running it / (under)funding it.

they are working part time as a result of the high work-load .. so although his post had slurred the gp's, it's really back to the government as the culprit which is your argument
( another kingsfund link > https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/positions/general-practice )
so ultimately consumer has less continuity of service through not seeing their same gp regularly, conditions not being diagnosed earlier leading to more hospitalisation and increased op waiting lists.
not sure if the government resolved the onerous pension constraints on gps coming out of retirement to help(during/post covid, ...ost brexit) which I thought also meant they were often part time.
...

 

[GreatAuk]

My GP surgery has an 'earnings' page which states:

The average pay for GPs working at the surgery in the last financial year before tax and National Insurance was £65,410.This is for 12 part time GPs who worked in the practice for more than 6 months.

Sounds like they're all part time to me...

I'm not blaming them in any way for them working part time, but it does show that it must be very common now.

It is simply a fact that the service from my GP surgery is terrible. I don't think it's that unrepresentative of other surgeries in many areas either. There are never any appointments to book, the only way you get one is by having an urgent problem.

For example one of my personal experiences in the past (before covid, and things have only got worse since then): I needed to renew a prescription that was running out - rang up repeatedly starting weeks before it ran out, and couldn't get an appointment. The result was that when I rang up having completely run out it was now an urgent problem and I got a same day appointment, where I was mildly told off by the doctor for allowing the prescription to run out, as though I hadn't been trying to get one for weeks (and noting that they don't book appointments further in advance than two weeks). Of course, I imagine not allowing people to book in advance is very good for the wait time statistics.

These days if you can even get through on the phone then they just tell you to use the online systems. And guess what, there are literally no appointments online (I have checked just now out of interest) regardless of how long you are willing to wait. There's a long list of topics you could have an appointment about, just to show you what you're missing out on though...

The website funnels you in two alternative directions. One is to an e-consult system which leads by trying to discourage you from even filling in an e-consult by telling you:

Your NHS practice is experiencing very high demand. Before contacting them, consider other ways to get help.

And listing pharmacies and NHS self-help as alternatives.

I haven't needed to book an appointment since they brought in the e-consult system so can't comment on how often they actually answer them, but can say it's turned off outside opening hours which just makes no sense to me - purely makes life more difficult for patients. Also from other people's experiences it's sometimes off even during opening hours.

The other self help area where the appointment booking portal tries to funnel you basically end up directing you to different web pages or YouTube videos about different topics.

The whole appointment booking experience seems designed to encourage you to self-diagnose and treat, which is a bit risky imo. If you actually need to see a doctor to get actual medical help you're stuffed.

I get that @Devilman is trying to defend individual GPS, but think you need to acknowledge that for a large number of patients the service they are receiving is very poor. Claiming that criticising the service leads to people verbally or physically abusing staff seems a bit of a stretch to me - should we all just sit here smiling and saying how great our GP surgery is regardless of reality?

 

[ScotchHop]

The funding for the NHS has always been mismanaged and with mass migration to the UK the capacity to cope is minimal. The service is not being broadened, but shrinking. More people should = a bigger NHS, but nope.

 

[Devilman]

I get that @Devilman is trying to defend individual GPS, but think you need to acknowledge that for a large number of patients the service they are receiving is very poor. Claiming that criticising the service leads to people verbally or physically abusing staff seems a bit of a stretch to me - should we all just sit here smiling and saying how great our GP surgery is regardless of reality?

This is the point though isn't it? They're NOT blaming the service, they're blaming the GPs. Even down to the snide comments about "oh looks like they're all working part time now" (which as indicated by heeeed just a couple of posts ago) is often a complete mis-representation of the truth, born of those who think "I cannot see my GP on wed, thur or fri... must be nice to only work part time" and then this nonsense gets stoked by the media engine after Boris and his cronies play their little Blame Game.

Very few people have actually come out and said "I don't blame the GP's at all, I don't think it's their fault, but the service being provided by the NHS (and thus by extension GP practice services) is shockingly poor and those responsible (at the top) need to make changes or resign.

The far larger voice is one of "My GP is ****" and "I can't get to see my GP for weeks, they're ****" and so forth.. people are NOT making the distinction between those responsible for this mess and those on the front line trying to deal with this mess.

*Edit* Here's a question for all of those complaining about poor service from their GP's / Hospitals... I think we can all agree one of the principle issues the NHS faces is chronic, sustained underfunding.
So why is it that you are not all up-in-arms about where the bloody hell all that money went on dodgy PPE contracts, Track & Trace and various other dishonest, vampiric government leeching programs draining the public coffers and stripping the NHS of money into friends / families pockets via dodgy contracts ?

I'm fairly sure we could have given nursing staff quite a nice payrise with all the money wasted by this horror show of a government.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

I'm fairly sure we could have given nursing staff quite a nice payrise with all the money wasted by this horror show of a government.

Why only Nursing Staff?

 

[Devilman]

Why only Nursing Staff?

It was not meant specifically to single out only nursing staff, it was I guess more being used as an example of deserving front-line staff who have been taken the **** out of repeatedly and was perhaps a little more "current" in peoples minds what with the last 2 years of Covid and the Tories voting against their payrise a few years back, but went on to take their own MP's payrises this year when the cost of living is worse than ever.

 

[pc-guy]

I have had my share of bad and good expriences with NHS with regards to my dad recently.

at the beginning of the year, my dad's physical condition started to deterioriate quick rapidly, he is 87 so we pinned it down to old age. he lost a lot of weight quite quickly and also his mobility has significantly reduced. (he suffered a stroke 14 years prior and recovered some what but always affected his mobility and dexterity). things took a bit of a turn for the worse a couple of months ago, where he all of the sudden got himself lost and confused and started to take random buses in an effort to get home. Luckily i had given both my parents air tags (for completely different reason) and we were able to call the police and get the police to effectively chase after him for a good 1hr around London before we managed to bring him home. after that episode he couldnt remember where he lived and what his own name was or his DOB or any of his children and grandchildren by names etc. basically like a late stage dementia but was a sudden onset.

Anyway, i described the above situation to his GP and also explained that 2 weeks prior to him getting lost, he also complained that he couldnt feel his left side - arm, leg (which was the impacted side from the stroke 14yrs ago) and couldnt get out of his bed and that he visited the GP about it and they turned him away. So the GP checked his blood result records - which he had been regularly been going (6 monthly) since he had stroke 14 yrs ago, his blood sugar level was off the scale in the two most recent test results and his blood sugar was high for over 5 years (all of which time was under the care of this GP. they switched GP about 6 years ago to the local one). also it turned out this GP stopped all my dad's previous stroke medications (BP control, cholesterol, blood sugar etc) 6 years ago as soon as my parents switch they registration to this GP. so this GP asked me for his Blood Pressure - which was taken on the spot and it was 189/120 which was extremely high. So this GP's decision was to get a blood test done again - the last one was only 6 weeks old with the lad technican written on the report in bold letter BLOOD SUGAR EXTREMELY HIGH!!!.

I was furious at this point. I immediately contacted a GP friend and asked for second opinion, and she asked me to ask the GP to refer him to urgent clinic in a hopistal for elderly or go to A&E as the events are indicative of stroke so I called back to the GP and the GP refused to take my phone calls. anyway i took my dad to the A&E myself as the ambulance wait time in the area is horrendous and the hospital is only 15min drive for me.

Got to the hospital, because dad was taken in by myself not an ambulance, despite the fact i told them i suspect he had suffered stroke and needs to be seen urgently, it wasnt for another 1hrs before he was triaged and another 3-4 hours before a doctor seen him.

soon as the junior doctor seen him, he got a consultant in to have a look at him and they acted quite quickly from there on. lots of scans and diagnostics and gave him aspiring etc and moved him into a stroke ward with regular doctor/OT/dietocian visitation and reviews etc. so from that point onward he was well looked after. the prognosis from the hospital was that he suffer stroke in two region of his brain, controlling memory as well as movement which ties up with his symptoms. and that it was likely a series of small bleeding cummulating to the final manifestation.

So unfortunately, i believe the GP has acted very negilently and I am in the process of ascertain if there are legal grounds for sueing him. What made me to take this action is that, just before i took him to hospital to try to get a referral for dad, the GP just outright refused to take my calls. the Receptionists were sympathetic and told me the doctor didnt want to speak to me and asked for the blood test to be done. even after dad was discharged from the hospital, i asked for an appointment with this GP, to review why his previous medication was stopped and why on the day when he couldnt get out of the bed, my parents visited the GP, they refused to see them and not even bothed to arrange ambulance to take him to hospital as what they described was stroke like symptom.

I feel this GP is the Harold Shipman equivalent, who just doesnt give a **** about his patients. I am not interested in any compensation but really want this GP to stop practicing as only god knows how many other patients are suffering under his care. Lastly, the most frustrating thing about the whole situation is that the primary care is often the weakest link in most of these situations where the hospital staff as a whole are generally quite good - although the reception at the A&E should have recognised the fact that he was suffering from stroke and deemed him to be triaged much earlier than that wait time and also the triage nurse should have recognised signs also. I think there is some level of competence lacking in these "gate" staff in hospitals.

 

[pc-guy]

*Edit* Here's a question for all of those complaining about poor service from their GP's / Hospitals... I think we can all agree one of the principle issues the NHS faces is chronic, sustained underfunding.
So why is it that you are not all up-in-arms about where the bloody hell all that money went on dodgy PPE contracts, Track & Trace and various other dishonest, vampiric government leeching programs draining the public coffers and stripping the NHS of money into friends / families pockets via dodgy contracts ?

i dont agree. that is a holistic generalisation in the opposite direction that you blame all the short falls and falings GP/nursing/hopsital department on funding. money can only go so far. like any organisation there will be people within that organisation who dont care for what their duty is or what they are supposed to do. they are there to get the pay check or just be malicious. thankfully this is a minority but this minority does exist that why there are clinical negligence claims.

also if you look at GP surgories as an exmaple, there are some excellent ones. I am very thankful for my local GP who has been extremely good in appointment making and addressing issues - referrals to hopistal for diaganostic or specialist consultations when required and act and advice well in emergency situations. i have 2 very yound children one with a few food alergies and skin conditions and generally poor immune system during early years. and at no point did we feel helpless or felt the GP was under performing or wasnt able to meet the needs.

but there are other GPs like my parents' who are just outright negiligent.

so all the GPs would be under the same financial stress yet one is very good (it was well reviewed on the NHS website as well as Google ) and one is appaling (worst rating on NHS as well as google).

so money isnt the root cause of all the issues.

 

[chroniclard]

Chronic underfunding is one of the causes, as is the Tories spunking billions feathering the nest of their mates and cronies, also the Tories wasting billions on dodgy deals.

They really do have an appalling record of incompetence, corruption and financial mismanagement, its staggeringly bad year after year.

All while increasing taxes. There literally couldn't be a worse government.

 

[jpaul]

also if you look at GP surgories as an exmaple, there are some excellent ones. I am very thankful for my local GP who has been extremely good in appointment making and addressing issues - referrals to hopistal for diaganostic or specialist consultations when required and act and advice well in emergency situations. i have 2 very yound children one with a few food alergies and skin conditions and generally poor immune system during early years. and at no point did we feel helpless or felt the GP was under performing or wasnt able to meet the needs.

but there are other GPs like my parents' who are just outright negiligent.

never thought of looking up doctor reviews on google ...
but yes, I can see demographic of different areas and doctors per person could cause a lot of variation in quality, parents in a town with 30% over 65's, can't see #doctors/inhabitant,
they have a poor service and no appointment availability, they have had to ring ambulances on neighbours behalf's, as, with hindsight - your parents might have benefitted ?, but as you say test-results seem to have been ignored/medication changed for unknown reasons

 

[Deus Ex]

so all the GPs would be under the same financial stress yet one is very good (it was well reviewed on the NHS website as well as Google ) and one is appaling (worst rating on NHS as well as google).

so money isnt the root cause of all the issues.

Disagree, different practices are under different strains. Its a lot easier to be a practice near a local uni and get 5,000 18-21 year olds on the books than one in an underprivileged area with generally people of lower socio-economic backgrounds who have far worse bio-psycho-social determinants of health. I suspect 500 uni students consume as much from the NHS as 10 80 years olds.

 

[pc-guy]

Disagree, different practices are under different strains. Its a lot easier to be a practice near a local uni and get 5,000 18-21 year olds on the books than one in an underprivileged area with generally people of lower socio-economic backgrounds who have far worse bio-psycho-social determinants of health. I suspect 500 uni students consume as much from the NHS as 10 80 years olds.

the two GPs i have referenced are within 2 miles of each other and have exact same demographics. the poor performing GP has a much more affluent catchment. where my local GP has a massive council estate right opposite to it alone with several retirement homes. so again highly situational. you and your co can spin the same old "Lack of funding" is the root of all evil for NHS's lacking but we all know it is part of the problem. during the Blaire and Brown years, NHS funding was significant - that didnt improve the health service overall. it made it more reliant on state funding and more bloated - created more bureaucracy and fat cats than ever before, encounraged complacency and opague management system and lack of accountability. I am hihglighting the adverse effect of course at just throwing money at a problem.

NHS is a complex problem and it is not as simplistic as MONEY. if you truly believe that then not much can be said on the subject for your perspective.

 

[eviled]

It’s been mentioned but I don’t think many people have taken notice.

GPs are self employed around a very basic general NHS contract.
A bad GP is like a bad electrician, they may be working to rules and regs but doesn’t mean they will do a good job/care etc

Bad GP? then move GP

Can’t move? Why?
Probably as there aren’t enough GPs in this country.
It takes (minimum) 10 years to become a GP.
The first 5 currently accrue £75,000 worth of debt on 7.3% interest.
The next 5 years start at £29,500 for a 48hour average week, including night shifts and working 25% of your weekends.
If by the time they qualify, which usually coincides with starting a family, I don’t see why they wouldn’t work less than full time.

I can’t believe it’s decended into critising peoples decisions to work part time. If we are going to do that let’s criticise everyone who has a job that might not contribute as much to society, why aren't they filling the gaps?

(Not suggesting they should, or criticising anyones jobs, just illustrating a point)

 

[Trifid]

Bad GP? then move GP

Can’t move? Why?

Based on my experience of needing to change GPs due to catchment area, changing GP is harder then you would expect. As far as I can work out, my street is not in a catchment and all but one was willing to put me on my books. I called 5 GPs within a 2 mile radius. The CCG was useless when I asked them who I was meant to sign up with. The only silver lining was, I got to see what the receptionist at every GP within walking distance of me was like.

 

[GGizmo]

The one thing I hate in the NHS is some individuals that seem to be totally lacking in social skills on how to talk to patients. These few people tend to be very depressive and frequently oppressive in their nature.

Far from encouraging a patient to be the best they can be, they offer unsolicited advice of the most negative nature. Telling someone who is currently in pain that they will be like that for the rest of their like i.e. give up and accept it, isn't a good attitude to give to a patient.

I think its more reflective on their own mental state.

 

[GGizmo]

I'm not sure why GP's are being mentioned in the NHS thread. Aren't they sub-contractors and not officially part of the NHS?

 

[Scougar]

Think I'm just gonna go with "whatever", Devilman. You seem to be taking it all very personal. Good luck. I'm out.

 

[LabR@t]

Why is there no urgency in our hospitals

 

[Pez]

I have had my share of bad and good expriences with NHS with regards to my dad recently.

at the beginning of the year, my dad's physical condition started to deterioriate quick rapidly, he is 87 so we pinned it down to old age. he lost a lot of weight quite quickly and also his mobility has significantly reduced. (he suffered a stroke 14 years prior and recovered some what but always affected his mobility and dexterity). things took a bit of a turn for the worse a couple of months ago, where he all of the sudden got himself lost and confused and started to take random buses in an effort to get home. Luckily i had given both my parents air tags (for completely different reason) and we were able to call the police and get the police to effectively chase after him for a good 1hr around London before we managed to bring him home. after that episode he couldnt remember where he lived and what his own name was or his DOB or any of his children and grandchildren by names etc. basically like a late stage dementia but was a sudden onset.

Anyway, i described the above situation to his GP and also explained that 2 weeks prior to him getting lost, he also complained that he couldnt feel his left side - arm, leg (which was the impacted side from the stroke 14yrs ago) and couldnt get out of his bed and that he visited the GP about it and they turned him away. So the GP checked his blood result records - which he had been regularly been going (6 monthly) since he had stroke 14 yrs ago, his blood sugar level was off the scale in the two most recent test results and his blood sugar was high for over 5 years (all of which time was under the care of this GP. they switched GP about 6 years ago to the local one). also it turned out this GP stopped all my dad's previous stroke medications (BP control, cholesterol, blood sugar etc) 6 years ago as soon as my parents switch they registration to this GP. so this GP asked me for his Blood Pressure - which was taken on the spot and it was 189/120 which was extremely high. So this GP's decision was to get a blood test done again - the last one was only 6 weeks old with the lad technican written on the report in bold letter BLOOD SUGAR EXTREMELY HIGH!!!.

I was furious at this point. I immediately contacted a GP friend and asked for second opinion, and she asked me to ask the GP to refer him to urgent clinic in a hopistal for elderly or go to A&E as the events are indicative of stroke so I called back to the GP and the GP refused to take my phone calls. anyway i took my dad to the A&E myself as the ambulance wait time in the area is horrendous and the hospital is only 15min drive for me.

Got to the hospital, because dad was taken in by myself not an ambulance, despite the fact i told them i suspect he had suffered stroke and needs to be seen urgently, it wasnt for another 1hrs before he was triaged and another 3-4 hours before a doctor seen him.

soon as the junior doctor seen him, he got a consultant in to have a look at him and they acted quite quickly from there on. lots of scans and diagnostics and gave him aspiring etc and moved him into a stroke ward with regular doctor/OT/dietocian visitation and reviews etc. so from that point onward he was well looked after. the prognosis from the hospital was that he suffer stroke in two region of his brain, controlling memory as well as movement which ties up with his symptoms. and that it was likely a series of small bleeding cummulating to the final manifestation.

So unfortunately, i believe the GP has acted very negilently and I am in the process of ascertain if there are legal grounds for sueing him. What made me to take this action is that, just before i took him to hospital to try to get a referral for dad, the GP just outright refused to take my calls. the Receptionists were sympathetic and told me the doctor didnt want to speak to me and asked for the blood test to be done. even after dad was discharged from the hospital, i asked for an appointment with this GP, to review why his previous medication was stopped and why on the day when he couldnt get out of the bed, my parents visited the GP, they refused to see them and not even bothed to arrange ambulance to take him to hospital as what they described was stroke like symptom.

I feel this GP is the Harold Shipman equivalent, who just doesnt give a **** about his patients. I am not interested in any compensation but really want this GP to stop practicing as only god knows how many other patients are suffering under his care. Lastly, the most frustrating thing about the whole situation is that the primary care is often the weakest link in most of these situations where the hospital staff as a whole are generally quite good - although the reception at the A&E should have recognised the fact that he was suffering from stroke and deemed him to be triaged much earlier than that wait time and also the triage nurse should have recognised signs also. I think there is some level of competence lacking in these "gate" staff in hospitals.

This is a sad tale, but I wanted to flag a few things:

1) Arriving at A&E by ambulance does not get you seen any quicker. Patients are triaged the same way either as walk in or via a crew, unless alerted for something.

2) If his results from the lab showed high blood glucose and it was ignored, you should 100% contact PALS to complain.

3) Seems like the GP knows he's messed up, and now doesn't want direct contact as likely fears MedNeg action - Shocking.

I hope your Dad (and family) are on the right track now