NHS Rant

[Roar87]

The nhs is being deliberately under funded to create these problems so it can be turned into a privatised operation. There’s plenty of cash around to support it, it just needs to be allocated sensibly. Brexit, HS2 and Trident spring to mind. It’s basic Tory policy, get rid of anything publicly owned so the rich can get richer...

Railways
Utilities
Royal Mail

What bothers me is that people are either too stupid to see what’s going on or don’t care.

Sad state of affairs.

Brexit is the state of becoming an independent country, we voted for it, the Tory government actually backed remain.

HS2 costs £56bn but this is spread over many years and will benefit the economy, governments investing in transport is pretty normal.

Trident costs about £5.2bn a year and comes out of the defence budget.

Mean while the NHS budget is sitting at around £136bn per year and Theresa May announced an extra £20bn per year. The NHS budget has basically done nothing but increase in real terms since the NHS was created.

Things being private is good, it means there's competition and choice, the rich only get richer if people use their services. Jeff Bezos is rich because people love Amazon. Bill Gates is rich because everyone uses Windows. Apple is rich because the iPhone sells incredibly well. Mean while a public company can provide a terrible service and actually get more money every year, while simultaneously killing off any competition that might do a better job because they can't compete with a company that's essentially being given free money.

 

[Vidar]

@Ace Modder Hiya Pal, I'm truly sorry to hear about your missus and all the trouble she's having its not fair. How are you holding up?

Having been a patient recently I can attest to just how broken the NHS is at the moment. We're in desperate need of a Labour government to roll back this privatisation but something needs to be done now. I saw an article this morning about a lad from West Derby, not to far from me that I knew from when I ran the door at a pub there. I couldn't say he was a mate but over the 2 years I was there he was often the highlight of my night, he was a cheeky **** full of energy you could always have a laugh with. Tom died of meningitis related sepsis roughly a year ago, not sure if it was related but his partner also lost their unborn child and tragically had a double funeral.

The report claimed his death was a result of a catastrophic failure in communication, reported staff shortages and a failure to identify his condition at each and every opportunity. The trust has apologised. This simply isn't good enough!

The doctors, nurses, health care assistants and everything in between are overworked, understaffed and lack organisation. Because of this you are getting staff that are dangerous, by design or by exhaustion, disinterested and unwilling to take responsibility. I hope to god things improve soon, I hope your wife gets the treatment she needs.

 

[Secret_Window]

Brexit is the state of becoming an independent country, we voted for it, the Tory government actually backed remain.

HS2 costs £56bn but this is spread over many years and will benefit the economy, governments investing in transport is pretty normal.

Trident costs about £5.2bn a year and comes out of the defence budget.

Mean while the NHS budget is sitting at around £136bn per year and Theresa May announced an extra £20bn per year. The NHS budget has basically done nothing but increase in real terms since the NHS was created.

Things being private is good, it means there's competition and choice, the rich only get richer if people use their services. Jeff Bezos is rich because people love Amazon. Bill Gates is rich because everyone uses Windows. Apple is rich because the iPhone sells incredibly well. Mean while a public company can provide a terrible service and actually get more money every year, while simultaneously killing off any competition that might do a better job because they can't compete with a company that's essentially being given free money.

Actually one of the reasons why it appears the NHS needs more money, is because it actually does. I understand it is claimed by this government to be receiving record funding supposedly in real terms, but this hasn't been the case for at least 5 years. It may now be getting more funding, but when it has deliberately received less on purpose for 5 years, the problems tend to mount up, creating a bigger problem than it originally started with.

See here:

 

[Vidar]

Mean while the NHS budget is sitting at around £136bn per year and Theresa May announced an extra £20bn per year. The NHS budget has basically done nothing but increase in real terms since the NHS was created.

Things being private is good, it means there's competition and choice, the rich only get richer if people use their services. Jeff Bezos is rich because people love Amazon. Bill Gates is rich because everyone uses Windows. Apple is rich because the iPhone sells incredibly well. Mean while a public company can provide a terrible service and actually get more money every year, while simultaneously killing off any competition that might do a better job because they can't compete with a company that's essentially being given free money.

Roar could you be anymore wrong?

First the numbers you are quoting actually show a real terms cut to funding once you factor in inflation.

Private companies have their place but not in the realm of public services. Health, Security, Education etc should not be run with profits in mind, these services are there for the good of the people not for the lining of pockets of corporations.

Just to add, Amazon is becoming a dangerous monopoly that is having a negative impact on the worlds economy, not just by avoiding tax through numerous loopholes but by killing off smaller businesses. While I use it myself for various things, it should be feared.

 

[MassiveJim]

Just to add, Amazon is becoming a dangerous monopoly that is having a negative impact on the worlds economy, not just by avoiding tax through numerous loopholes but by killing off smaller businesses. While I use it myself for various things, it should be feared.

Have thought this for a while, its growing rapidly as well.

 

[Minstadave]

wrong. with decent competition and decent health insurance companies. the prices will be much lower than the tax you pay the the NHS, and that money goes back into the economy rather than into a giant mess.

I’m not sure that’s born out in the evidence, who has a private system that is cheaper than the NHS whilst providing the same level of care?

 

[Vidar]

@MassiveJim There was a facebook video done by Momentum I think in regards to Amazon. I can't really search it on this potato laptop as it's slow as hell but whether you share their politics or not the points the make about Amazon on the video are factually correct and alarming!

 

[Roar87]

Actually one of the reasons why it appears the NHS needs more money, is because it actually does. I understand it is claimed by this government to be receiving record funding supposedly in real terms, but this hasn't been the case for at least 5 years. It may now be getting more funding, but when it has deliberately received less on purpose for 5 years, the problems tend to mount up, creating a bigger problem than it originally started with.

See here:

What, you mean there was a dip following the financial crisis in 2007? That's hardly a surprise. Everything got cuts, we had less money.

 

[Secret_Window]

What, you mean there was a dip following the financial crisis in 2007? That's hardly a surprise. Everything got cuts, we had less money.

My response was to the absurd claims it received record funding in real terms, when actually had received less.

 

[Roar87]

Roar could you be anymore wrong?

First the numbers you are quoting actually show a real terms cut to funding once you factor in inflation.

Private companies have their place but not in the realm of public services. Health, Security, Education etc should not be run with profits in mind, these services are there for the good of the people not for the lining of pockets of corporations.

Just to add, Amazon is becoming a dangerous monopoly that is having a negative impact on the worlds economy, not just by avoiding tax through numerous loopholes but by killing off smaller businesses. While I use it myself for various things, it should be feared.

Everything should be run with profits in mind. Profit isn't a dirty word, it means your company is being run well and people are using it. Where do you think money goes in a public company? It goes on giving incompetent people pay rises, overtime and promotions because a public company can't fail. It doesn't matter if Jim who's **** at his job get's an extra £5k bonus because it just comes out of the guaranteed annual budget. It doesn't matter if Mark gives his mate a promotion he doesn't deserve because the public company can't fail, Mark's still getting his pension because it's guaranteed by the government.

 

[Roar87]

My response was to the absurd claims it received record funding in real terms, when actually had received less.

I haven't even used the words record funding, I said it has received a funding increase in real terms year on year, which it has. The NHS got less of an increase in the years following a financial crisis, a crisis that happened after Labour had been in charge for 10 years.

 

[Secret_Window]

I haven't even used the word record funding, I said it has received a funding increase in real terms year on year, which it has. The NHS got less of an increase in the years following a financial crisis, a crisis that happened after Labour had been in charge for 10 years.

Actually it was more to do with the controversial reforms during the cooalition with regards to receiving less funding - something which many senior Tories now regret due to the problems it has now created see here:

Government’s reorganisation of the NHS was its biggest 'mistake', say senior Tories

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...iggest-mistake-say-senior-tories-9790247.html

 

[Housey]

The NHS has been broken for a couple of decades, labour is not the solution in the same way the tories are not the problem. It shows a massively simplistic understanding of the issues to put it at the feet of a single political party.

 

[Roar87]

Actually it was more to do with the controversial reforms during the cooalition with regards to receiving less funding - something which many senior Tories now regret due to the problems it has now created see here:


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...iggest-mistake-say-senior-tories-9790247.html

Yes, reforms intended to save money due to a financial crisis.

 

[Secret_Window]

Yes, reforms intended to save money due to a financial crisis.

But do you not see the connection between less funding for 5 years, rising demand, and the problems it faces?

By the Tories own admission, they have said they found the reforms regrettable.

 

[Vidar]

Everything should be run with profits in mind. Profit isn't a dirty word, it means your company is being run well and people are using it. Where do you think money goes in a public company? It goes on giving incompetent people pay rises, overtime and promotions because a public company can't fail. It doesn't matter if Jim who's **** at his job get's an extra £5k bonus because it just comes out of the guaranteed annual budget. It doesn't matter if Mark gives his mate a promotion he doesn't deserve because the public company can't fail, Mark's still getting his pension because it's guaranteed by the government.

Lmao are you really going to use "incompetence" as an argument supporting private companies? Sorry I just find that really funny considering examples like Carillion

Look I'm not saying that profit is a dirty word and as I've said private companies of course have their place but I strongly believe that putting profits before people when it comes to health, safety etc is plain wrong. There's nothing wrong with services being cost effective, nobody in their right minds would advocate needless wastage of funds but lets be honest pal, if a director is beholden to share holders instead of government people will certainly come a distant second to profits.

 

[Roar87]

Lmao are you really going to use "incompetence" as an argument supporting private companies? Sorry I just find that really funny considering examples like Carillion

Look I'm not saying that profit is a dirty word and as I've said private companies of course have their place but I strongly believe that putting profits before people when it comes to health, safety etc is plain wrong. There's nothing wrong with services being cost effective, nobody in their right minds would advocate needless wastage of funds but lets be honest pal, if a director is beholden to share holders instead of government people will certainly come a distant second to profits.

What people will come a distant second, the customers? They can go else where if they're getting a poor service, you're ignoring the competition aspect. If your bank is giving you a bad service you go to a new bank. Share holders are interested in profits, profits can only be high if a company has a lot of customers, a company can only have a lot of customers if they're providing a good product or service. Where's the incentive for a publicly run company to perform well? It doesn't have one. If it performs badly it asks for more money, it doesn't fire a load of Senior Managers because they're doing a bad job. If the NHS is ****, who else can I go to? I can go private but I'll struggle to pay for it because I'll still be funding the NHS through my National Insurance contributions.

Carillion is a brilliant example, a private company that was run badly and went under. That's exactly what should happen.

 

[robj20]

While the NHS can always be improved i don't think its broken. When things are urgent they get done quickly, if it can wait, well you often do sometimes for a while. There is always the option of paying extra to be seen faster my dad did it, instead of waiting 6 months he saw them a week later.
Only have my experience but i couldn't be happier with the NHS when it really matters.

 

[Dis86]

When things are urgent they get done quickly,.

No, they don't. Read the thread.

 

[robj20]

No, they don't. Read the thread.

I have and disagree. Read my post regards my own experience. People always think they need seeing straight away and that their case is urgent, when in reality you can wait.