NHS Rant

[FortuitousFluke]

So yes when people complain about the NHS because there in pain. I just have to think that's nothing really you don't know what pain really is, and hope nobody ever has to see what the NHS can really do when it's really urgent.

With the greatest of respect the existence of people who have more serious conditions doesn't negate the need of Ace Modder's wife. Equally I don't think they're asking to receive the same level or speed of treatment that your child received but there is a limit to what is acceptable. I would not expect to be left in chronic and unmanageable pain for months with really no acceptable information as to why the delay has occurred or when things are likely to progress.

I agree that there are some fabulous success stories in terms of the work the NHS does but you can't just point to those whenever an issue crops up and imply that the issue is now invalidated.

 

[Ace Modder]

In this thread I haven't even spoken about the mental state of my wife either, she is so low at the moment that it is affecting everything, she is not coping mentally at all. I wanted to keep the thread just on track for the hospitals inability at manage her direct problem.

Her GP is helping her manage the mental state she is in at the moment, but she isn't in the best of places - quite understandable too. She doesn't get more than 60 mins uninterrupted sleep ever, because the pain wakes her up constantly. She is napping on/off during the day due to lack of proper sleep, but short naps do not do what a proper 7-8 hours sleep does. This is also affecting her mental well being.

But this is just a byproduct of the underlying primary issue, that is her condition.

 

[Dis86]

In this thread I haven't even spoken about the mental state of my wife either, she is so low at the moment that it is affecting everything, she is not coping mentally at all. I wanted to keep the thread just on track for the hospitals inability at manage her direct problem.

Her GP is helping her manage the mental state she is in at the moment, but she isn't in the best of places - quite understandable too. She doesn't get more than 60 mins uninterrupted sleep ever, because the pain wakes her up constantly. She is napping on/off during the day due to lack of proper sleep, but short naps do not do what a proper 7-8 hours sleep does. This is also affecting her mental well being.

But this is just a byproduct of the underlying primary issue, that is her condition.

I can sympathise with that. I had gallstones when I was in my early 20s. Given that I was fit, had spot on cholesterol there was obviously no logical reason for me to have them they weren't diagnosed. For 12 months my gp tried me on various meds and painkillers which did nothing. It was only at this point i finally had an ultrasound scan which confirmed what the problem was. For 18 months I never slept through a single night due to the pain. I was genuinely losing my marbles. Nothing took away the pain. I was making myself sick, sitting on the toilet for hours, avoiding food, doing anything I could to try and just alleviate the pain even slightly.

In the end I crawled in to A and E on my hands and knees coughing up blood.
They initially refused to operate saying something needed to be scheduled through my GP and then a referral and that I had to go home. I refused to leave. They called security. The security guards refused to move me as they could clearly see how ill I was with one of them actually saying "he's in A and E, this is where he needs to be otherwise what's the point of the place?".
I passed out at some point after that. Woke up the next morning without a gallbladder as it had ruptured.
The surgeon that operated on me apologised on behalf the the NHS pointing out it should never have gotten to that stage.

 

[Jumper118]

Unfortunately not borne out in reality
2 work collegues (one dutch living in teh US) and one Us now living in europe had a conversation last year, we were talking about the UK system initally

The US national said it had cost them $25k for an appendix operation before leaving for europe
Bizzarly the Dutch national had a suspected appendix scare not long after arriving in the US, cost $20k

One of my staff is american, she says that cancer in the US will bankrupt you unless you are one of the absolute top, forget healthcare it wont touch the cost of the bills

One of my other US collegues also said that in the US, you get people who have been in a car accident for example refusing to be put in certain ambulances as they know the cost of that ambulance will cripple them
Yes ambulance chasers in the US are the ones who own the ambulances, chasing to accidents trying to tout for business.

Still we will probably get to see this first hand in the UK in a few years once we sell out to the US post brexit

The USA has way too much regulation. Bad example batman.

 

[Housey]

@Ace Modder send me a message. As I mentioned I’ve a very good gastroenterologist who is also a friend, a fried before being my consultant! I’m sure he’d take a call, I know he’d give you best advice. He is very leading edge in his treatments. He gave my wife a camera pill some years ago so he could asses her end to end as it were. He put a camera up my backside so he is also VERY brave

 

[danielanthony]

You could just jump ship to another country(if u can)? im debating it myself as there is a lot of things broken here in the UK which is sad.

I cant put a gun to everyone here in the UK and tell them to stop this nonsense brexit, nhs etc etc. i cant control or dictate what happens to the NHS etc but i can at least jump off of a sinking ship(uk) and look after myself in a diffeent country that offers and meets my needs such as decent pension, healthcare, stable economy/jobs etc

Where is this mythical country? Wakanda?

 

[Scrutinize]

@Ace Modder thanks for the updates and sorry to hear a bit more about the severity of your wife's condition.

I may have missed your response to a number of us who previously, in the thread, suggested paying to see a consultant. I still believe this is the best course of action in parallel to your GP/A&E visits and normal NHS referal and if you explain the severity, they will usually see you within 24 hours esp when paying. Your GP can expedite referal to private and the GPs/Consultants do communicate.

You shouldn't be in this situation but you and your wife are and this will be the most expedient way to get further referrals or treatment. Often the consultant will refer you to himself on the NHS if they do both (esp if you cant afford private long term and explain that) and depending on severity/affordability they will speed this up for you considerably.

Follow up Consultant appointments are only typically £100-£150 though privately.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

The USA has way too much regulation. Bad example batman.

What? You want an unregulated healthcare system?

Its nothing to do with the regulation btw. Its all run for profit, the private ambulances rushing to be able to pick you up vs the hospitals own for example.

The drugs are negotiated by hospital, literally salesmen selling them. Trump was right, they overpay for drugs, however he failed to deal with it.

So give an example then, which country has a healthcare system you think is better.

 

[Ace Modder]

@Ace Modder thanks for the updates and sorry to hear a bit more about the severity of your wife's condition.

I may have missed your response to a number of us who previously, in the thread, suggested paying to see a consultant. I still believe this is the best course of action in parallel to your GP/A&E visits and normal NHS referal and if you explain the severity, they will usually see you within 24 hours esp when paying. Your GP can expedite referal to private and the GPs/Consultants do communicate.

You shouldn't be in this situation but you and your wife are and this will be the most expedient way to get further referrals or treatment. Often the consultant will refer you to himself on the NHS if they do both (esp if you cant afford private long term and explain that) and depending on severity/affordability they will speed this up for you considerably.

Follow up Consultant appointments are only typically £100-£150 though privately.

OK, thanks I think this is seomthing to really consider, but currently as she is still in hospital on a NHS ward cannot do anything yet.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Where is this mythical country? Wakanda?

Germany for starters.Norway and sweden another decent shout

 

[Jumper118]

What? You want an unregulated healthcare system?

Its nothing to do with the regulation btw. Its all run for profit, the private ambulances rushing to be able to pick you up vs the hospitals own for example.

The drugs are negotiated by hospital, literally salesmen selling them. Trump was right, they overpay for drugs, however he failed to deal with it.

So give an example then, which country has a healthcare system you think is better.

Not totally unregulated. Obviously witch doctors should not be allowed

The reason the companies which make drugs and provide health in America can charge as much as they do is due to over regulation preventing competition. Every company wants to make a profit, but at the same time every consumer wants the cheapest and highest quality service possible. The NHS has no incentive to do this at all, because no matter how bad it is, I can't go bust. A company that gives people bad healthcare or healthcare at a too high price, would be forced by competition to lower its prices, provide a better service or go bust.

There is no problem making money from healthcare. If they provide a good service at a reasonable price they will make more.

I will give you a great example. Food. Food industry is private nobody massively overcharges for food very few people go hungry and food is plentiful and cheap.

 

[teaboy5]

Whilst I agree 100% your sons cases was of the top-upmost importance and I'm glad he got such great care.

But it doesn't excuse that she has not even been seem by her specialist for an initital consultancy in over 6 months for something which is giving her daily chronic unmanageable pain. There is a reasonable time frame, and quite frankly it's been broken for my wife.

Two ways to sort this really.

Wait or go private. Can't afford private ? Then wait. If she is that much pain why you don't sell some things or take a loan out then.

 

[neviditelny]

As a staff member in NHS I can definitely agree with that NHS can be run so much more efficient and better if we would restructure the organization and management. There is so much mucking about from the management which usually leads to more paperwork for the staff and less time to actually deal with the patients. The training for the nurses and health care assistants/support workers are in my opinion not very good either and could do with a lot of improvements. Communication is a massive issue as well, it's so often where people are not informed about decisions made in regards of a patient or what have been done etc. Team work is going downhill as it is a bit of a jungle where everyone fights for their own survival and the attitude that "someone else will do that".
The waiting times for CT/MRi scans can be stupidly long as well because when you are admitted to the hospital you are less of a priority as you are considered to be in a "safe" place. A few months ago I was on a night shift where we had a patient that needed to be transferred with a "blue light ambulance" to a different hospital for an urgent neuro surgery, requested by the neuro surgical consultant in the other hospital. The time it took to get an urgent ambulance to come and pick this patient up was silly, only because the ambulance control decided that the patient was less urgent as she was in a "safe area". It didn't matter that our doctors or site managers spoke with them to tell that the patient needed an urgent surgery..
I love my work mostly, but sometimes it's such a ******* shambles that I'm surprised not more people end up dying from us being unefficient.

 

[Jumper118]

As a staff member in NHS I can definitely agree with that NHS can be run so much more efficient and better if we would restructure the organization and management. There is so much mucking about from the management which usually leads to more paperwork for the staff and less time to actually deal with the patients. The training for the nurses and health care assistants/support workers are in my opinion not very good either and could do with a lot of improvements. Communication is a massive issue as well, it's so often where people are not informed about decisions made in regards of a patient or what have been done etc. Team work is going downhill as it is a bit of a jungle where everyone fights for their own survival and the attitude that "someone else will do that".
The waiting times for CT/MRi scans can be stupidly long as well because when you are admitted to the hospital you are less of a priority as you are considered to be in a "safe" place. A few months ago I was on a night shift where we had a patient that needed to be transferred with a "blue light ambulance" to a different hospital for an urgent neuro surgery, requested by the neuro surgical consultant in the other hospital. The time it took to get an urgent ambulance to come and pick this patient up was silly, only because the ambulance control decided that the patient was less urgent as she was in a "safe area". It didn't matter that our doctors or site managers spoke with them to tell that the patient needed an urgent surgery..
I love my work mostly, but sometimes it's such a ******* shambles that I'm surprised not more people end up dying from us being unefficient.

I personally think privatisation would solve all these problems. Maybe not right away, but over time it would. It's too big. Too much paperwork.

As you work there don't you think it would help?

 

[neviditelny]

I'm not sure if a full scale privatisation would help. But I think there would need a full overhaul of how the NHS work. A change in how things are being managed and how to treat staff. A lot of the problems is that someone said before, they move people upwards instead of dealing with the issues so you get ****/incompetent people in management positions, quite often they will feel the power and be ****** awful managers.
As someone previously said, it takes ages to get things sorted out as well or order new things. For example, earlier this year our ward clerk needed to order a couple of new staplers. The cost of this would be less than £5 for three staplers, she was contacted by the person responsible for ordering stationary and was asked if she really needed to order three staplers. Put that into perspective by comparing to the on average 40-50K we spend every month (just my ward) on agency staff as we are not able to retain our staff. On a day shift we are supposed to have 6 registered nurses and 4 health care assistant's. Quite often at half of the nurses will be agency nurses on the day shifts, and quite often 1-2 agency nurses on a night shift (out of 4 nurses on duty for a night shift).
My hospital is so desperate for staff that they will employ anyone who is breathing and able to walk as well, there seems to be no criteria needed for new staff and the training they get when starting is nowhere near good enough for them to be able to work fairly independent in a safe way after the introductionary 2 weeks as a supernumerary member of staff either.

A couple of things I'm also strugglign to get my head around is why there is so few things that is nationwide within the NHS, every trust seems to work after different policies and guidelines in many ways..
And why the **** can't the NHS use the same uniforms all over? The uniform I wear as a HCA hear is the same as the nurses wear at a nearby hospital in a different part of the county.. Why?

 

[SexyGreyFox]

There is so much mucking about from the management which usually leads to more paperwork for the staff and less time to actually deal with the patients.

but the main reason for this is PALS > Complaints > Clinical Negligence
Solicitors Experts look for the tiniest things that may or may not have been done so staff have to be on the ball with their paperwork.
It was only a couple of years ago when I was having my own operation that I realised a whole department had been setup called PreAMS because of potential mistakes that could be made where in the old days it was: Your operation is on November 6th 1985.

 

[Jumper118]

In a private business there is no room for bad management. If they produce bad results and are inefficient then they would get fired to avoid the company loosing customers to another company.

Also the wages could be raised and lowered to accommodate the need for more or less staff.

 

[Sheff]

When people complain about management what do they mean?

Ward managers? Account Managers? Heads of Service? Commissioners? Regulators?

Many of these roles are needed to help operations run smoothely or reduce variation in care received regionally or try to prevent departments from overspending.

Perhaps if there were fewer top down reorganisations, managers could get on with the job they want to do rather than having to deal with restructures.

 

[Monkeynut]

In a private business there is no room for bad management. If they produce bad results and are inefficient then they would get fired to avoid the company loosing customers to another company.

Almost every private sector employee in Britain would disagree with the assessment that private sector managers are good...

 

[tom_nieto]

Take this anger and write to your local MP. The system has been at breaking point for quite a while now. Winter is coming and that should terrify the British population with the current state of the NHS.