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NHS Rant

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ace Modder, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. tom_nieto

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 10,487

    Location: Birmingham

    Take this anger and write to your local MP. The system has been at breaking point for quite a while now. Winter is coming and that should terrify the British population with the current state of the NHS.
     
  2. koolpc

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 2, 2004

    Posts: 11,027

    Location: Under The Desk, Wales

    Def 2nd going private for the consultation at the very least. Hope she gets seen soon mate. No way she should be suffering like that. NHS can be a right pain. I been waiting over 6 months to see the chronic pain management department.
     
  3. Jumper118

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 17, 2012

    Posts: 4,808

    Location: Leeds

    I didn't say they were good. The ones that get bad results get fired. That is all.
     
  4. SexyGreyFox

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Mar 29, 2003

    Posts: 48,653

    A great example of Managers in the NHS can be seen in the building I work in that contains lots of little departments so I'll break it down:

    There are 3 Managers with 1 staff member each
    There are 3 Managers with 2 staff members each
    There are 2 Managers with 3 staff members each

    and so on .....
     
  5. Jumper118

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 17, 2012

    Posts: 4,808

    Location: Leeds

    lol. that is awful. sounds like 7 managers too many
     
  6. SexyGreyFox

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Mar 29, 2003

    Posts: 48,653

    Funnily enough the department who Ace will be getting in touch with has the most Staff to Manager ratio with 1 Manager for 9 staff.
    I have a Head of department, Deputy Head of department and 6 colleagues, to be honest those two Heads are needed.
     
  7. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 8,365

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Now I know you don't know what your on about, this is the industry I work in.

    Your statement is completely flawed. Most of the food industry charges what it can get away with. (As does all private industry basically)

    There are products that have massive margins because people perceive a greater benefit, and others than are low. yet some of the best profit earning brands are poor value for money compared to own labels.
     
  8. LeeUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 1, 2008

    Posts: 4,529

    Yeah the NHS are a joke. :rolleyes:

    Let's get it privatised double quick. :rolleyes:
     
  9. Monkeynut

    Soldato

    Joined: Nov 7, 2007

    Posts: 6,317

    Location: Cheshire

  10. shadow_boxer

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 9, 2009

    Posts: 8,430

    Location: Stoke-On-Trent

    Off topic but.

    This. Of my 5 best mates from medshool who graduated around 10 years ago.

    1. Left NHS. Work privately as a radiologist.
    2. 10 years later still in training to be a cardiologist.
    3. Moved after 3 years to New Zealand
    4. Left the profession completely.
    5. GP doing routine and locum work.

    Quite sad on reflection but I don't blame people for leaving or making the best for themselves. I certainly rarely feel valued. As a "trainee" particularly, merely a commodity to be exploited by detatched rota coordinators with little understanding of job or training process. My wife and I are seriously considering moving to Canada to practice in the future.
     
  11. Raumarik

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 14, 2003

    Posts: 13,627

    Entirely depends on pay grades. There are managers where I work on £20K and some on £55K.

    "Manager" doesn't really mean anything in the NHS, you can line manage without having that in your job title anyway.
     
  12. Jumper118

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 17, 2012

    Posts: 4,808

    Location: Leeds

    It doesn't matter. You are getting caught up on the profit is bad, but it isn't. Profit creates capital to invest in new projects and if everyone can afford food it doesn't matter that the profit margins are massive. Its always been better than state run food programs.

    You may know how the food industry works, but you clearly fail to grasp basic economics.

    In fact if the NHS is so amazing and cheaper than private industry, why don't they make it so people can pay less tax, but not receive health care from the NHS. Then we would see how cheap it really was.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
  13. Jumper118

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 17, 2012

    Posts: 4,808

    Location: Leeds

    The NHS itself must not be privatised. It must be torn down completely otherwise you end up with the same mess as the trains are in.

    Yes the American system is crap too. Already said. There is too much regulation which stops new business starting up.

    Obama actually put loads of charity hospitals out of business because they were not able to meet the regulations on their budgets, meaning ironically, thousands of poor people using charity health care now don't have any. He basically just moved a bunch of people using charity health care off charity and onto government paid for health care. Adding a middle man and raising the costs overall for Americans.
     
  14. neviditelny

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 15, 2015

    Posts: 944

    Yes, paperwork is important but if I compare for example with my ward the nurses generally only get to deal with the patient's when they give them medication, otherwise most of the time they will be filling in care plans and documentation in regards of the patients which they have hardly seen or dealt with.
    As an example, when we have a patient being admitted to my ward, we have a 30-odd pages document with assessments that needs to be done with each patient. And to add to that, my ward have 32 beds, and we quite often have a turnover of 10-15 patients a day (sometimes even more).
     
  15. neviditelny

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 15, 2015

    Posts: 944

    For me the management goes from the Ward Managers (the Senior Sisters/Charge Nurses) to Matron and Divisional Managers etc. People tend to go upwards in the hierarchy very quick but also tend to lack a lot in knowledge, experience and how to actually manage and lead people. There is a shocking lack of knowledge and understanding of how to actually work and deal with people (both patients and the own staff).
     
  16. stockhausen

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2006

    Posts: 9,358

    The modern curse of status - ‘Everybody has won, and all must have prizes.
     
  17. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 8,365

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    I am not getting caught up at all, its quite funny because if yo uknew me you would understand how iditoic and/or uninformed you are.
    Just for reference i my almost 30 years at work I have always worked for international/global businesses, most of that time (bar 6 years as a systems accountant/manager in fin services).
    I studied economics to A level, then some specifically business focussed for my proffessional qualification (accountancy).
    I was in my 30s when I was FD in a FTSE company.

    My last job prior to when I moved to food (high tech end), was working in a global pharma company. So yeah I have a bit more of a clue on how business works, both in general and also in pharma.

    Just for reference, most of the time when sitting around at board level the term profit isn't really used, profit is a result of doing the other things right. Its normally far more along the lines of margins (gross/ net etc), margin improvement, sales growth, cost control as far as financials. But thats (unless the business is strugling) normal vastly outweighed by others things such as employee engagement, competitor activity etc

    One last item you should consider before any more inane points, healthcare has very high barriers to entry. Its a really highly regulated industry. Going back to my time in pharma, when we changed practically anything it was regulated, even the plastic bottles some IV was supplied in. These high barriers to entry make it harder for competitors to enter, the natural functioning of competition is supressed by this.
     
  18. Vern1961

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 29, 2007

    Posts: 2,635

    Location: Swindon UK

    NHS can be very good or very bad. While the biggest problem is getting past the GP or GP receptionist, even a referral does not guarantee prompt treatment. In the case of my MMN, I spent nearly 4 years being told I had carpal tunnel, nothing they could do, wear a wrist support etc. Even my appointment with the neurologist he was going to discharge me back to the GP and it was only when the nerve conduction study came back got recalled to be told what condition I actually had.

    In contrast once the treatment started the unit was second to none. Helpful nursing staff, pleasant surroundings and everything done to put you at ease. Just as well, as theres no cure only treatment to ease the symptoms, which will be ongoing until the end of my days or the NHS no longer fund it.

    MMF is not a life threatening condition but it is potentially life changing with gradual loss of motor function and nerve damage. The prospects would have been far better and less expensive to treat if it had been identified several years ago rather than misdiagnosed or dismissed as RSI.
     
  19. chrcoluk

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 27, 2015

    Posts: 3,349

    There is all sorts of issues, the latest one to anger me?

    I have been trying to get a late day appointment for the past 2 weeks, my GP currently has 6 permanent doctors, yet according to the receptionists only 4 appointments after 4.30pm are available for the next 4 weeks.

    The surgery is open till 6pm and these are 10 minute slots, so whats happened to the other 116 or so slots? These are not appointments booked up, they simply stated there is only 4 available to book and the slots are no longer available as policy, one receptionist was about to give me a reason but then stopped early sentence like she was not allowed to say.

    Access to healthcare seems to be getting very hard in my area, I think its highly variable per region tho as different regions are at different stress points. A postcode lottery so to speak.

    My last referral was done via a private GP, he told me the NHS GPs are under tremendous pressure to hold people back to save money.

    I dont quite agree.

    A for profit organisation always needs extra money to generate the profit, in addition shareholders tend to want profit growth year on year so the demand for profit is always growing. Profit could be compared to "waste" in state entities.

    So the question is if the waste in NHS is more than the combined waste in a private healthcare and the profit making, if it isnt then a state funded NHS is better value for money.

    I havent a clue as to exact reasons for the NHS problems.

    But some reasonable assumptions are.

    1 - Per adult head, our NHS is underfunded vs other top EU countries such as france and germany.
    2 - Some staff seem to have a lot of clout in terms of their terms of employment, favourable hours and pay, my local hospital has been paying doctors to cover a&e over £70 an hour. That is clearly a ridiculous situation been abused by doctors, pure greed. It got so bad, several times a&e was left unmanned as managers had massive restrictions on authorising the doctors to work due to out of control costs, including the last time I went a&e.
    3 - bad management of resources, so often I see nurses standing around chatting to each other or look like they struggling to stay busy, as well as admin staff, but doctors the opposite, when I left a consultants room after an appointment there was a queue of 3 staff waiting at the door for him, at a time he was 90 mins behind on appointments. So some resources clearly need shifting from nurse and admin staff manning levels to doctors. This massive shortage ironically is probably why problem #2 exists as the doctors know they in so much demand.

    Healthcare is been compromised, high quality drugs no longer get prescribed, people have to either make do with less effective alternatives which can drastically reduce quality of life or even cause death, or no alternative at all. Doctors make assumptions that are dangerous like mistaking cancer for a minor infection, probably because the latter is cheaper.

    There is doctors at my hospital which can barely speak english.

    If the system was privatised, I can see some of these problems been dealt with especially #2. But I also feel overall funding would drop so problem #1 would get worse. Of course my private GP appointments have generally been productive, but I am paying a big wad of cash for those appointments.

    A general observation based on the treatment given to me, my frends, family and what I read in the news, is that the NHS always value preserving life over maintaining quality of life. So if e.g. a condition doesnt have an immediate risk of killing you but is crippling you, then that would be lower priority than keeping someone in the last minutes of their life alive. Which is why so often people get brushed away, but then when the problem becomes real serious the NHS suddenly acts like it gives a crap. Also the 999 service is generally quite good as thats dealing with people in very grave situations. Its always going to be controversial on what people think is a better use of resources, so much of the NHS money is used to prolong life of the elderly probably at the expense of the working age who need treatment. For sure ideally there would be no choice to make and no compromise anywhere, but there is compromises currently been made.

    Also since the abolishment of PCT's I feel the NHS has no public accountability, the complaints procedure since that got removed is a joke.

    You have my sympathy 100%, I have personal experience of what can happen when an initial problem is left untreated, it then causes other problems like dominoes falling down, e.g. a lack of sleep can severely harm a human, she cannot sleep because of pain, which in turn has likely caused other issues and the prolonged period of pain and lack of treatment has affected her mentally. The NHS has increased its own costs of treating your wife by failing to treat her early at the onset of illness. It may be years for your wife to return to normality as the result of all this.

    excellent from the security staff, I hope they didnt get fired for what they did.

    I wouldnt consider food cheap, there is a lot of people with malnutrition and we have food banks as evidence people are struggling to afford to buy food.

    As an example 10 years ago I could buy 4 Cornish pasties for a £1, now they nearer a £1 each.
    Sometimes the price inflation isnt crazy but instead the food amount is reduced so they reduce the weight of the food you buy in the packaging.

    Food has most definitely got way more expensive despite competition in the market.

    Gas and electric also has competition and has out of control cost increases, competition is by no means a guarantee prices will be restrained.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 24, 2018