North Korea threatens US with a pre-emptive nuclear strike.

Balddog said:
Disagree.

I think they will quit very easy. Soldiers are normal folk too. Most will have joined the army just to avoid starvation. I dont believe for a moment they are as brainwashed as our media would have us believe.

They will collapse just like the Iraqi armed forces did.
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Its hard to know what level of brainwashing is common place amongst the masses - if they've been brought up from childhood to believe that their very existance and way of life is under threat from the US then many of them will not only believe it but actively subscribe to it, they simply won't know any different.
 
Amp34 said:
What you're forgetting though is the aftermath. There would be years of peace keeping, making Afghanistan seem like a walk in the park. Unless China got involved and managed to quell most of the disquiet.

I don't think there is that much of a rise in rhetoric, at least non return rhetoric. The US has been rattling the sabre and NK have been responding in kind. The US do "excercises" just off their borders and what do they expect?
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No argument here... The aftermath would be long and painful. I wasn't "forgetting" so much as focusing on the initial military action.

Still, I an see a somewhat more orderly transition than in Afghanistan or Iraq. North Koreans are a downtrodden people - resistance against authority is no longer "in their nature", after a century under the boot.

While resistance fighters in Iraq and Afghanistan had religious concerns, and saw themselves as fighting a holy war, the average North Korean civilian is more concerned about having food in his belly and not upsetting those above him.

Yes there would be military units that refuse to surrender, and the country would be plagued with attacks from such units for years. But I don't see a wholesale resistance to occupation in the same way we have seen in middle eastern conflicts. If the Chinese were primarily the ones occupying the country, I think resistance may be lighter than if it were American troops (the North Koreans having been subjected to a lifetime of anti-US propaganda).
 
I think America should just phone in a lot of chinese and other takeaway food and get it delivered to the border care of the Il's.

That'll bloody have them.
 
Rroff said:
Its hard to know what level of brainwashing is common place amongst the masses - if they've been brought up from childhood to believe that their very existance and way of life is under threat from the US then many of them will not only believe it but actively subscribe to it, they simply won't know any different.
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I would normally agree, but we should remember that its only been 60 years. Even kids born now have grandparents who lived in a united korea and who can tell the real history. Perhaps in another generation, things will be different..but i dont believe its at that point yet. I think the testimonies of north koreans who have made it out do show that the level of brainwashing isnt as comprehensive as some believe.
 
Rroff said:
That is pretty inflammatory - from my experience of Americans those in the areas mentioned are likely to put extreme pressure on their leaders to pre-emptively strike if theres even a grain of substance to the story, they can be oddly patriotic at times.
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All the brass in the US army know what they have in front of them ... saying that Korea has anything which hasn't already been taken part of an scenario wouldn't be realistic. NK is just trying to use all this actions as a bargaining chip in future negotiations, and there is no way this will end up in a nuclear or even a heavy missile exchange.
 
Balddog said:
Really? Which ww2 artillery exactly?
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Quite a few really, railway guns could fire up to 30mi and some of the bigger fixed artillery pieces could do up to 80mi, i.e the "Paris gun" or the V3 that was constructed in northern France to shell London (the latter being destroyed by the RAF before it became operational).

Obviously development has come on some in 60+ years, for instance rocket propelled shells can turn a cannon with a 23mi range into a 35mi range, cannons such as the cold war era 2S7 Pion, now I know that NK are not the most technically adapt, but surely if they can put a satellite in space they can build artillery as good as the USSR were 40 years ago.
 
hola_adios said:
NK is just trying to use all this actions as a bargaining chip in future negotiations, and there is no way this will end up in a nuclear or even a heavy missile exchange.
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I agree - this is a continuation of their policy of using the threat of regional instability to extort concessions from the US. But that hasn't been working in the last few years, and without China to back them up they are becoming increasingly desperate (hence the increase in bellicose rhetoric).

I think it's *unlikely* that this will spill over into large-scale or even all-out conflict, but you can never be sure. The situation is getting towards the point where one mistake or one over-zealous front-line officer could potentially start a chain of events that leads to war.
 
ubersonic said:
Quite a few really, railway guns could fire up to 30mi and some of the bigger fixed artillery pieces could do up to 80mi, i.e the "Paris gun" or the V3 that was constructed in northern France to shell London (the latter being destroyed by the RAF before it became operational).

Obviously development has come on some in 60+ years, for instance rocket propelled shells can turn a cannon with a 23mi range into a 35mi range, cannons such as the cold war era 2S7 Pion, now I know that NK are not the most technically adapt, but surely if they can put a satellite in space they can build artillery as good as the USSR were 40 years ago.
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Paris gun was fixed wasnt it? As in a building type setup? :o but yes, you are right. I wasnt really including missiles as they have misiles that can apparently reach alaska :o

Please read that link I posted. Its really very interesting.
 
So budget......

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Jono8 said:
Outbreak of war hours away ?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ours-away-as-Kim-Jong-un-plans-US-strike.html
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lol..journalism these days

Meanwhile, Dylan Harris, director of Lupine Travel, which specialises in holidays to unusual places like Iran, Chernobyl and Siberia, received an email on Friday morning.

It said US stealth bomber flights over the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DRPK) had made the situation "critical with the outbreak of war probably only hours away". It was not clear who the email was from.
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Their airforce would be history within the first 2 hours, their best aircraft are Mig 29's of which they have about 40 and they are now old and well behind the curve. The rest are Mig 21, 23 and 19's so agin a work of moments. Their tanks would be utterly useless without air cover and they would be finished in a few days at most. Stop worrying, it's a silly dictator thumping his chest, and he'd **** it if he tried anything.
 
Its unlikely that anything real will come of it, but itd be terrible if it did. I mean, the leader is a clear wacko but he would happily send thousands of people to their deaths in a vein attempt to settle a score with the US.
 
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