Not much excitement for RDNA3, compared to the RTX 4000 series

[pc-guy]

I think these companies have become spooked by their revenues falling a huge amount. So they want to increase prices and margins to compensate. What they seem to not think is the pandemic was a rare event for tech,ie, a situation where a lot of people and companies had to upgrade their PCs for work/entertainment and mining hit at the same time. Now they want even higher margins,and sell off their overproduction for miners at RRP.

I believe this is absolutely true for the reality that is now.

AMD and Nvidia have had a wild ride during the last 24months and completely forgot about what the fundamentals were that propped up their revenue and profits.

Anyway they probably over leveraged on their wafer and fabrication cost as well due to TSMC being in so much demand by all tech companies. Nvidia reportedly invested $10-20bil into TSMC 5nm fab.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I believe this is absolutely true for the reality that is now.

AMD and Nvidia have had a wild ride during the last 24months and completely forgot about what the fundamentals were that propped up their revenue and profits.

Anyway they probably over leveraged on their wafer and fabrication cost as well due to TSMC being in so much demand by all tech companies. Nvidia reportedly invested $10-20bil into TSMC 5nm fab.

In the olden days they would have sought to have decent prices and excellent performance,to tempt people to upgrade(even if they didn't need it) and get more volume. That would solve any excess capacity.Just think of the 6600GT,8800GT,etc.

Now there is too much speculation on margins. Screw revenue,screw volume....must increase margins at all costs. This almost sounds like the prelude to the Dot-com bubble and the 1929 stock market crash.

 

[pc-guy]

Agree. These guys have forgotten how to tempt customers.

Almost feel like a duopoly and consumer is just being scalped left right and centre for the greed of companies while getting no added values out of it.

Doesn’t just apply to tech atm. Feel like everything. From petrol to food. From train fare to council tax

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Agree. These guys have forgotten how to tempt customers.

Almost feel like a duopoly and consumer is just being scalped left right and centre for the greed of companies

They are more concerned about what the accountants at the large investment firms care now. These firms own shares in all the big tech companies and gaming companies AFAIK.

It's why us consumers,need to vote with our wallets and also criticise their moves. It's the only way they will eventually enter reality.

The cheap credit and low interest rates due to the money printing of the last decade,is now coming to an end. It makes me wonder whether they understand what is happening!

 

[g67575]

I think it all comes down to the reference models. Perhaps they will only produce more internationally, if customers simply refuse to buy from third party manufacturers at much higher prices.

For AMD, it's as if the reference models are the elephant in the room, which must not be seriously discussed.

It's pretty obvious that Nvidia is not interested in meeting demand, when they set and rigorously enforce 1 per household rules for all reference models in a series. They are not your friend, they just want to extract as much money from customers as they can 'afford'.

 

[humbug]

i would beg to differ.. have been looking up 4090 numbers, and i think rtx 50 will make 4k mainstream - i think a big shift is coming
also depending on how the mcm approach works out for amd, MAYBE prices will come under control
this is like stuff for future youtube documentaries. though i fully understand that prices have been spoiling the moment

I wouldn't call £2000+ Mainstream.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I think it all comes down to the reference models. Perhaps they will only produce more internationally, if customers simply refuse to buy from third party manufacturers at much higher prices.

For AMD, it's as if the reference models are the elephant in the room, which must not be seriously discussed.

Might be why AIB partners like EVGA have given up now. The increased pricing means they can't charge much more than reference models.

AMD has reference models,but they are sold via the EU shop which does not operate in the UK.

 

[g67575]

Might be why AIB partners like EVGA have given up now. The increased pricing means they can't charge much more than reference models.

AMD has reference models,but they are sold via the EU shop which does not operate in the UK.

Wonderful. Are you implying that the problem is partially/mostly due to the UK no longer being in the EU?

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Wonderful. Are you implying that the problem is partly/mostly due to the UK no longer being in the EU?

I have said nothing!

 

[g67575]

Did they even get that many RDNA2 reference models in the US? They made a big deal about saying they were still going to produce some (after rumours that they were cancelled), as if we are meant to be really appreciative.

they made some odd third party reference models too, which confuses things further.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Did they even get that many RDNA2 reference models in the US? They made a big deal about saying they were still going to produce some (after rumours that they were cancelled), as if we are meant to be really appreciative.

they made some odd third party reference models too, which confuses things further.

The problem is also AMD launched after Nvidia,and it was when the mining started happening. Hence every under the RX6800 was not that greatly priced either,and Nvidia then did its refresh. A lack of reference models at RRP wasn't great - at least you had a better chance of getting an RRP Nvidia card.

 

[Gerard]

Best case, is that AMD produces lots of reference models for RDNA3, and sells them in the UK this time!

I don't think they've worked out how to do that yet.

 

[Insanties_birth]

You've got to root for the underdog nowadays, I'd be surprised how long PC gaming will maintain any growth with Nvidia at the helm and their love of price gouging. They had to recall the fake 4080 due to the misleading practices they wanted to employ being called out and they are happy to sell cards for nearly double the price of last gen rrp just because they made a few too many 30 series cards. They take every opportunity to make the situation worse though, the drip feeding of those cards is apparently their design to keep the prices high but it will also prolong the situation and only make the 30 / 40 series look worse for value, I can't imagine the choice of paying RRP for 2 year old tech or paying a premium to get the new stuff based on the fact the old stuff is still around (pay for it anyway lol).

Hopefully this chiplet design of AMD's and their approach to cheaper cards really works as well as they hope that they don't get the greed fever that Nvidia has. In the end I don't need 300fps of fake frames on a lot of the games I play, I don't really need the halo cards if the marketing and price gouging are turned up to 11 but it doesn't feel like it's any more meaningfully better than the last generation improvements or features (dlss 2 would be fine). If they were the prices of last gen or the one before then fair enough but right now it really comes to a point where AMD has the real chance to keep the industry on a steady course or watch it fall into a few years of pricing out your average gamer in the name of corporate greed.

 

[g67575]

I think many people assume AMD is trying to beat Nvidia, but I think both companies don't care, as they can produce the optimum amount of cards, with optimum market segmentation, at the 'optimum' price.

AMD still makes most of their money from selling CPUs. Logically, it's probably better to focus most of their investment there.

It's not really in their interests to out produce each other, unless they can scale the production at low cost. They seem to have 'just enough' capacity at the moment. I would guess that scaling up chip production is always a big risk, financially.

If we use Zen 4 CPUs on TSMC's 5nm EUV process tech as an example, these are priced higher than most seem comfortable with - Therefore I don't expect improved prices for an even more complex product, like RDNA3 GPUs + MCM dies.

Nvidia's CEO has stated that the production cost of their latest 4nm GPUs has increased significantly.

One positive thing, is that Nvidia is using 4nm for the next gen, AMD is using 5nm + 6nm. So, hopefully, they won't be competing much for capacity.

 

[g67575]

So, it does sound like Nvidia will be reducing the price of the top AD104 GPU, according to one of the partner companies:

NVIDIA Cancels the RTX 4080 12GB After Backlash

Sponsor: HYTE Y60 computer case on Amazon - https://geni.us/3ngWPNVIDIA has announced that it is "unlaunching" the RTX 4080 12GB and will be releasing it und...

youtu.be

'They're not that stupid' in response to keeping the same price.

Still, I'm not optimistic on the pricing...

It's pretty bad timing, because I actually need to buy a new GPU this year (borrowing a gfx card atm), and it sounds like the RTX 4070 is going to be delayed until Q1 2023, or maybe even later, because it will take a while to repackage and update the firmware of these GPUs.

 

[chris85oc]

That’s not enough. They need to drop the price on the 16gb 4080 too or it’s DOA considering its performance. The 16gb should be 900 “$” max MSRP.

 

[Purgatory]

I thought that too yet its sold out

Was literally at work, hovering on the buy button at 2:20PM, saw loads in stock and thought 'I'll wait till I get home and have a proper think about it..."
And bam, sold out!

Even the 2080ti sold out for first few weeks , the sales at the start of any new gen doesn't mean it does well overall. The 20 series was one of the worst value new gen ever in the history of Nvidia gpus. But still sold out for many weeks and then the reality came out of how bad they really sold and how upset users were for the update that showed minor performance update from a 1080ti and RTX & DLSS 1 that was dead on arrival as no software used it and when it did the DLSS 1 quality was terrible and RTX features just halved performance for RTX shadows .. SOTTR was a prime example and why they kept bluffing for weeks to release the RTX update for it as Nvidia again lied to people about the real world performance with these features on and DLSS 1 that destroyed the image quality for higher FPS..


Something about the above sounds very familiar this generation with DLSS 3 ... again the games like MSFS with DLSS 3 for example are still beta updates and only people in the beta testing can even use it so far and when some did get their hands on it have realised the reality of it and went back to DX11 on MSFS as MSFS's DX12 is still in beta and causes stutters for many and worst experience even with it producing better fps results on the fps counter but not usable with the stuttering and when they even turn on DLSS 2 the image quality takes a nose dive for cockpit view of the instrument panels and has a blurry cockpit view for many and this I have seen first hand with my setup too on a 3090, so hoping the new DLSS 3 update will cure these issues but people are saying so far that have used it it hasn't or is hiding some of the issues with frame generation but causes other issues when you move around and shows the DLSS 2 issues up again and new artifacts caused by frame generation with DLSS 3.


I will see for myself later today what is going on with my work mates system that we are building today with a 4090 and 7950xt.


Also worth reading this post I made earlier too regarding performance of 4090 vs 3090 on MSFS :-

30xx Series Founders Edition

Tinfoil hat on. I get the feeling nVidia has released DLSS 3 a little earlier than it should have. They've used it to show the insane uplift in FPS for the new 4 series but obviously didn't highlight any of the issues it currently faces. Meanwhile, the sites/youtubers who've done in-depth...

forums.overclockers.co.uk

 

[Purgatory]

Because they didn't do it last time when they had a GPU that could beat 3090 in raster. There was nothing but rumours and conjecture and we were still guessing right up to release, yet AMD were not sharing any real info. The only time AMD tried to play the PR BS is when that guy Raja Koduri was in charge of the GPU division. They failed abysmally under him to be frank.

So all these posts that AMD should be giving more leaks/info are not based on previous AMD behaviour. At least not since Raja left, (was shown the door).

If you can't wait until the official info is released, or more pertinently for the actual release. Then that is not down to AMD, it is down to you.

100% agree Raja in my book sabotaged the Radeon division at AMD while he worked there and when he moved to Intel DGPU division I knew the same was going to happen and as we see same BS again from him and worst part now hiding and not even commenting on the released Intel DPGUs that are a fail in reality for Intel and a huge money waste so far and selling at a loss even at MSRP because they can't compete with AMD and NVidia for the price to performance and reliable drivers and worst you need a system that supports REBAR and games with DX12 as DX11 and under games are basically performing a lot worse because they are using a bit of software to translate DX11 and under calls to DX12 in the drivers which adds huge overheads so far.

Meeh Intel lost the plot hiring Raja to run their DGPU department and only reason I see they did that is because he stole AMD IP to make these new intel DGPUs to speed up intels dgpu section, but something smells very fishy why they hired him as he was shown to be a failure at AMD at the time and many years before that with his performance lies for the new gen cards they were introducing at them times. Worst mistake intel could have made really in my book hiring him.

 

[Purgatory]

You are not wrong on the cache at all. The massive cache 4090 has puts it far out ahead of the lower stack.

It is really hard to guess or gauge lower stacks true position with Nvidia not really releasing any information.

But I guess the core counts and memory bus is the best starting point.

Anyway let’s see what that 4080 12GB get renamed to. I got a feeling it will become 4070ti or something a bit more “higher cost”.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they just renamed 4080 16GB as 4080Ti or super and then come out with the 4080 12GB as the 4080

We know how greedy Nvidia is and how ludicrous they are also.

Im going with a totally new name like 4075 and with the same price and then they will use any cores that are disabled to release a 4075ti. I don't believe they will reduce the price and only way that will happen is if they reflash their VBIOS and disable a few more cores and bring the price down maybe $50-$100 and then when the TI fully unlocked version of the "4075" comes out it will be $1000. You wait and see Nvidia are not going to give this gpu away for anything less.

 

[Tired9]

I think many people assume AMD is trying to beat Nvidia, but I think both companies don't care, as they as they can produce the optimum amount of cards, with optimum market segmentation, at the 'optimum' price.

AMD still makes most of their money from selling CPUs. Logically, it's probably better to focus most of their investment there.

It's not really in their interests to out produce each other, unless they can scale the production at low cost. They seem to have 'just enough' capacity at the moment. I would guess that scaling up chip production is always a big risk, financially.

If we use Zen 4 CPUs on TSMC's 5nm EUV process tech as an example, these are priced higher than most seem comfortable with - Therefore I don't expect improved prices for an even more complex product, like RDNA3 GPUs + MCM dies.

Nvidia's CEO has stated that the production cost of their latest 4nm GPUs has increased significantly.

One positive thing, is that Nvidia is using 4nm for the next gen, AMD is using 5nm + 6nm. So, hopefully, they won't be competing much for capacity.

Exactly my thoughts, Lisa Su don't look to be in any discomfort at all, it seems they are raking in cash so neither company really cares.