NVIDIA 4000 Series

[stooeh]

I don't find the latency noticeable while playing Witcher 3 with a controller but it is noticeable in Cyberpunk where I am using the mouse.

The main issue I have is that it is not quite doubling the frame rate so presumably if I am going from 50fps to 80 or 90 with FG then my latency is equivalent to playing at 40-45 ?
In CP2077 I see 'Average PC latency' in Nvidia's performance overlay jump from 50ms to 60+ms and was just about bearable when aiming. Driving around was great though.
Portal RTX seemed pretty nasty lag wise.

 

[SpellowHouse]

Well, the "recession" is really starting to bite now. Any thoughts of upgrades have completely dissipated!!!

 

[z10m]

Tried DLSS3 in Witcher 3 and Dying Light 2 yesterday and was very impressed.
Yes I can feel increased latency vs when it’s off but all games supporting DLSS3 have reflex mode which brings the latency somewhat in line to what it would be without frame genration enabled.
I was pixel peeping for artifacts and couldn’t find any.

 

[SpellowHouse]

Been looking around and it seems the 4070ti is having good sales even at £800, but generally only the cheaper models with better noise/cooling.

I think (and I said this once before in this thread) that people will buy whatever they can afford, pretty much irrespective of the number that NVIDIA give it. It's sad, really, because the 4070ti is a disappointing product at the price, but what can you do? If people are prepared to go along with NVIDIA rip-offs then those of us who know it's not good value, count for nothing.

 

[Jay85]

That makes little logical sense. DLSS3 has different hardware requirements and it was part of the design of the 4000 series... so why should that already be taped out many years earlier when the 2000 and 3000 series was being designed? I am not apologizing on Nvidias behalf and I certainly have no love for them as a company, money grabbing ****'s that they are, but in the end we should at least be reasonable in our criticism. Improvements often require changes in hardware and the 2000 and 3000 series have DLSS2 which still does give a large performance boost. They may also get support for DLSS3 later down the line but with reduced performance due to the missing additional hardware.



I need to pick up CP2077 with a cheap steam key, really want to try the VR mod too.

very true, the first thing we should be doing is not enabling high prices which seems to be the case right now with the 4000 series.

 

[Richdog]

very true, the first thing we should be doing is not enabling high prices which seems to be the case right now with the 4000 series.

Yeah, I was so hoping AMD was going to deliver with the 7900XTX but in my eyes they flopped hard. The fact is that Nvidia currently provides by far the best generational performance increase and there is no other option if you want bleeding-edge performance this gen. As such, I bought one and do not regret it despite the high price; the performance increase is nothing short of phenomenal, especially in SkyrimVR. It's a literal game-changer.

 

[Casdawer]

The 4070ti is selling well because new prices for the 3080 and above are still heavily inflated so you might as well spend an extra £80 and get the 4070ti which is cooler, quieter, has DLSS 3.0/FG and is more power efficient.

The cheapest 3080 on OcUK is £720 whilst the cheapest 4070ti is £799.

Anyone with half a brain would pick the 4070ti.

Yes, you can a 30-series card cheap 2nd hand but not everyone is comfortable doing that and want the security of a full warranty etc.

 

[Bencher]

I'd rather turn down settings than run 50ms of latency regardless of what a magic counter in the corner of the screen says

Latency isnt the main issue though. I mean it is a problem , when you activate FG when the framerate is really low and therefore the latency is already high. As long as you are above 50 fps with FG off, enabling it is perfectly fine and you dont notice much in terms of latency. The latency becomes really noticeable when you are at 40 or less fps.

 

[andybird123]

I don't find the latency noticeable while playing Witcher 3 with a controller but it is noticeable in Cyberpunk where I am using the mouse.

The main issue I have is that it is not quite doubling the frame rate so presumably if I am going from 50fps to 80 or 90 with FG then my latency is equivalent to playing at 40-45 ?
In CP2077 I see 'Average PC latency' in Nvidia's performance overlay jump from 50ms to 60+ms and was just about bearable when aiming. Driving around was great though.
Portal RTX seemed pretty nasty lag wise.

50ms is equivalent to 20fps
16ms is 60fps
60ms is 16fps

 

[andybird123]

Latency isnt the main issue though. I mean it is a problem , when you activate FG when the framerate is really low and therefore the latency is already high. As long as you are above 50 fps with FG off, enabling it is perfectly fine and you dont notice much in terms of latency. The latency becomes really noticeable when you are at 40 or less fps.

I run a 144hz monitor because I can't play at 60fps as it annoys me, that's 16.6ms
I can't play console because it annoys me, I can't play on a TV with 30ms input lag because it annoys me.

All of these things people have said are "fine" over the years, but to me they aren't, so no frame generation is a big fat nope from me.

I'm certainly not spending £1600+ just to find out I don't like it

 

[z10m]

50ms is equivalent to 20fps
16ms is 60fps
60ms is 16fps

You are talking about frametime here.
Total input lag isn’t equal to frametime.
Frametime is the time between frames and input lag it the time between mouse/keyboard/controller input and what’s displayed on the screen.

 

[Bencher]

I run a 144hz monitor because I can't play at 60fps as it annoys me, that's 16.6ms
I can't play console because it annoys me, I can't play on a TV with 30ms input lag because it annoys me.

All of these things people have said are "fine" over the years, but to me they aren't, so no frame generation is a big fat nope from me.

And im telling you as long as your original framerate is above 50, you dont feel any extra input latency then you would if you played at 50 in the first place. If i sit you down in a game youve never played before and i had fg on you would never go "this is laggy".

I also have a 120 hz monitor, so what?

 

[clone]

Would I lose performance with a 13600kf over the 13700kf with the 4080.

 

[~>Dg<~]

From February 8th, with the launch of GeForce RTX 4090 and 4080 laptops, followed by GeForce RTX 4070, 4060, and 4050 laptops on February 22nd. Prices start at $999.

maybe we will see the new mid range cards on the 22nd of feb.

 

[kalniel]

Latency isnt the main issue though. I mean it is a problem , when you activate FG when the framerate is really low and therefore the latency is already high. As long as you are above 50 fps with FG off, enabling it is perfectly fine and you dont notice much in terms of latency. The latency becomes really noticeable when you are at 40 or less fps.

Yep. Which is precisely why DLSS3 is not going to help the longevity of a card - if it's already getting towards the slow end then DLSS3 doesn't help you avoid wanting to upgrade.

 

[Richdog]

Yep. Which is precisely why DLSS3 is not going to help the longevity of a card - if it's already getting towards the slow end then DLSS3 doesn't help you avoid wanting to upgrade.

Are you saying DLSS3 is not useful if it's taking you from 45fps to 90+fps? Or 60 to 120+fps? Please quantify your statements instead of keeping them so vague; what does "towards the slow end" mean in your eyes?

In the end DLSS3 regularly gives 2-3x more performance in games that support it and if you think that cannot increase the longevity of a card, especially if DLSS3 gets pumped out to all major new games over the next 2-3 years, then I would say that's a bit of a logic fail

 

[Bencher]

Yep. Which is precisely why DLSS3 is not going to help the longevity of a card - if it's already getting towards the slow end then DLSS3 doesn't help you avoid wanting to upgrade.

It's not as clear cut as you make it out to be. FG is useful when for example, you want to play something like plague tail requirem, but your card is at the edge of managing it decently, getting 45-50 fps. You pop FG, and you good to go

 

[chrcoluk]

The 4070ti is selling well because new prices for the 3080 and above are still heavily inflated so you might as well spend an extra £80 and get the 4070ti which is cooler, quieter, has DLSS 3.0/FG and is more power efficient.

The cheapest 3080 on OcUK is £720 whilst the cheapest 4070ti is £799.

Anyone with half a brain would pick the 4070ti.

Yes, you can a 30-series card cheap 2nd hand but not everyone is comfortable doing that and want the security of a full warranty etc.

Yeah at those prices the 4070ti is a no brainer. I assume it also has the newer gen encoding chip as well.

 

[Casdawer]

Would I lose performance with a 13600kf over the 13700kf with the 4080.

Depends on the game and the resolution. Most benchmarks but them on equal ground with certain titles getting a 10fps lead on the 13700kf but it draws more power and generates more heat.

I would save the money and put the additional funds towards a decent card.

Yeah at those prices the 4070ti is a no brainer. I assume it also has the newer gen encoding chip as well.

That as well.

I have no regrets getting the 4070ti for my new build. I wanted all new parts and the 4070ti is the best value for NEW cards right now.

 

[kalniel]

Are you saying DLSS3 is not useful if it's taking you from 45fps to 90+fps? Or 60 to 120+fps? Please quantify your statements instead of keeping them so vague; what does "towards the slow end" mean in your eyes?

In the end DLSS3 regularly gives 2-3x more performance in games that support it and if you think that cannot increase the longevity of a card, especially if DLSS3 gets pumped out to all major new games over the next 2-3 years, then I would say that's a bit of a logic fail

The slow end is whatever is the boundary of making you think about upgrading your GPU. That's a different value for each of us, but the effect is the same - wanting a new card. In such a scenario FG doesn't help (regardless of the value) - because FG doesn't make a game any more responsive, quite the opposite, so it'll still feel like you want a new GPU.

Where FG has value, it's in CPU limited scenarios or those where you're already getting sufficient frames without FG - neither of those scenarios correspond with you questioning the longevity of your GPU.