NVIDIA 4000 Series

[Troezar]

Plus, the huge marketing. A guy at work wanted a new GPU a few years ago, so I reccomended a cheaper as fast AMD card, might have been 480/580 timeline with 8GB for some longevity, but he pulled a face and bought a 4GB NV alternative and then came to me crying that his games kept stuttering and FPS was poor. I just turned round and said "Oh really", and carried on working.

If someone has a mental block about a brand, any brand of any product, they'd rather be proven wrong and buy it anyway. I've had this numerous times with people partiuclarly at work, their eyes glaze over, mumble "drivers" or pull a face and and waste another £50-£100. So now I just reccomend whatever overpriced NV card suits and make them happy, it's partiucalry funny when I know they like modding SKYRIM and I've just told them to buy an 8GB card. 8GB conks out very easily in SKYRIM I know because I've done it.

There is a very strong draw to Nvidia and Intel by the people not paying that much attention, even the tech savvy, marketing works. That said I have a friend and colleague who did pay attention and is very happy with a setup the same as mine. Probably got some brownie points when I kept saying AMD were on the rise when they were at about $3/share and was proven more than right

 

[Grim5]

All the early opinions on fsr 3 are to be quite frank, pointless. They were based of what amd "showed" (which was very limited/short footage), no one has had a proper hands on yet (and latency will be key here given nvidia are relying on hardware to overcome this and amd aren't from my understanding). The initial PR titles for FSR 3 should also be taken with a huge pinch of salt too as look at what happened with fsr 2, it was pretty good in deathloop then it got out in the wild outside of PR sponsorship deals and ended up being pretty awful 90% of the time. I am fully expecting the "dlss 3 killer!!!!" videos etc. to start popping up after the first game with fsr 3 is reviewed

The thing I find quite hilarious with fsr is that the game with the best fsr implementation is cp 2077......

DLSS 1 was indeed dog ****, the worst upscaling to date but that doesn't excuse amd from being basically 3 years behind on this area now, difference is dlss is continually improving where as fsr doesn't seem to be much, if at all and amd don't seem to be doing anything to address the constant points that are highlighted in every comparison but again, this all comes down to how amd have picked this path i.e. hands of approach and let the developers fine tune to get the best from it, which as we all know, ain't going to happen, they need to adopt a similar approach to dlss with t-shirt size fit so at least devs don't have to spend too much time to get good results.

Yep well said, was about to post the same. Saying first impressions are positive is meaningless when no one has had fsr3 in their hands and being able to test it

 

[Hook]

Plus, the huge marketing. A guy at work wanted a new GPU a few years ago, so I reccomended a cheaper as fast AMD card, might have been 480/580 timeline with 8GB for some longevity, but he pulled a face and bought a 4GB NV alternative and then came to me crying that his games kept stuttering and FPS was poor. I just turned round and said "Oh really", and carried on working.

If someone has a mental block about a brand, any brand of any product, they'd rather be proven wrong and buy it anyway. I've had this numerous times with people partiuclarly at work, their eyes glaze over, mumble "drivers" or pull a face and and waste another £50-£100. So now I just reccomend whatever overpriced NV card suits and make them happy, it's partiucalry funny when I know they like modding SKYRIM and I've just told them to buy an 8GB card. 8GB conks out very easily in SKYRIM I know because I've done it.

It's those damn lazy devs. and modders.

 

[Joxeon]

But that's not true, the only effort AMD can't match is the 4090. Every other card below the AMD card is cheaper + faster. 99.9% of gamers don't care who holds the absolute performance crown, they care what performance they can get for x pounds

This is what I said, AMD are only just beating Nvidia’s 2nd tier die and charging nearly £1000, last gen they were charging £550 for a card that performed around 10% better than Nvidia’s 2nd tier die.

Nvidia may have put it’s prices up by a daft amount but don’t think AMD are doing you a favour coming in a bit cheaper.

 

[Gerard]

This is what I said, AMD are only just beating Nvidia’s 2nd tier die and charging nearly £1000, last gen they were charging £550 for a card that performed around 10% better than Nvidia’s 2nd tier die.

Nvidia may have put it’s prices up by a daft amount but don’t think AMD are doing you a favour coming in a bit cheaper.

Reviews place the 7900xtx around 6-10% faster than the 4080, but again those depend on what version of the card is being used as some will naturally boost a bit higher due to better coolers.

 

[Apex]

This is what I said, AMD are only just beating Nvidia’s 2nd tier die and charging nearly £1000, last gen they were charging £550 for a card that performed around 10% better than Nvidia’s 2nd tier die.

Nvidia may have put it’s prices up by a daft amount but don’t think AMD are doing you a favour coming in a bit cheaper.

No-one cares what die it is.

A bit cheaper? More like £200-£300 on avg, you can buy the very best 7900XTX for £1000-1049 (Sapphire Nitro+ PC RD) you can get a Asrock Phantom for £950, (if their recent models are anything to go by these will be top notch) you can get an excellent Pulse for £930.

Sure, you can get the absolute bottom end 4080 for £1050, but that's not apples to apples is it?

Check out the premium 4080s and you're looking at £1200 to £1500.

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080 Graphics Cards Available at Overclockers UK

The GeForce RTX 4080 graphics card is a powerhouse of a graphics card, built with the latest NVIDIA Ada Lovelace architecture and 16GB of super-fast GDDR6X VRAM.

www.overclockers.co.uk

AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX Graphics Cards at Overclockers UK

Upgrade to the most advanced graphics for gamers with the AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX, featuring incredible performance.

www.overclockers.co.uk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnxXT2sx8nA - HUB 50 card comp.


There's a very significant price gap between these two cards and very little performance difference RT aside.

How much cheapoer do you think the 7900 XTX should be than the 4080, given that perf is equal and now a rough avg price difference across the range would be £250-£300 (leaving the outlier Liquid cooled models out of it)?

 

[Gerard]

Check out the premium 4080s and you're looking at £1200 to £1500.

Asus being the most expensive, what a shocker. Inno3d as well but that's a waterblocked card.

 

[Joxeon]

No-one cares what die it is.

I think they do and that’s why the 4080 hasn’t sold well.

A bit cheaper? More like £200-£300 on avg, you can buy the very best 7900XTX for £1000-1049 (Sapphire Nitro+ PC RD) you can get a Asrock Phantom for £950, (if their recent models are anything to go by these will be top notch) you can get an excellent Pulse for £930.

It’s still £350 more than what AMD sold last gens 2nd tier Nvidia die competitor for.

Check out the premium 4080s and you're looking at £1200 to £1500.

None cares about premium 4080s in fact very few people care for the 4080 at all.

There's a very significant price gap between these two cards and very little performance difference RT aside.

Both are still overpriced.

 

[Apex]

I think they do and that’s why the 4080 hasn’t sold well.

It’s still £350 more than what AMD sold last gens 2nd tier Nvidia die competitor for.

None cares about premium 4080s in fact very few people care for the 4080 at all.

Both are still overpriced.

No, no-one cares what die it is, they care what price it is. That's why it hasn't sold.

So?

If no-one cares about the 4080, premium cards or not, then why should AMD lower the price of the 7900XTX?

They are, but NV's card is much more overpriced, that's why it hasn't sold from day 1 and has been a complete meme.

You said AMD came in a bit cheaper, that's not true, they're signficantly cheaper for a same/faster card depending on which tests you're looking at.

Another example, the 7800XT smashes the 4070 at 1440p raster, and slightly in RT - the obvious resolution for these cards. Plus you get 16GB VRAM, not 12GB.

Look at the price difference...and this is with the 7800XT just launching...

Come back in a month when the price settles and 7800XT will be an even bigger winner...

Outside the 4090, it's not even a competition, yet somehow AMD are as much to blame as NV for pricing?

Nonsense! AMD sell better cards for less. It's NV that has to move and is much more to blame for price hiking as they control the market.

 

[Joxeon]

No, no-one cares what die it is, they care what price it is. That's why it hasn't sold.

If that’s the case then why has the 4090 outsold all of AMDs RDNA3 put together so far, do you think it would have sold so well if Nvidia used a 103 die?

If no-one cares about the 4080, premium cards or not, then why should AMD lower the price of the 7900XTX?

AMD are lowering prices because they need sales, Nvidia don’t as they are focusing on AI.

Look at the price difference...and this is with the 7800XT just launching.

It’s the same price as the 6800XT has has been selling for most of the year with the same performance sure it’s better than the 4070 but beating that’s not hard.

Outside the 4090, it's not even a competition, yet somehow AMD are as much to blame as NV for pricing?

Nvidia raised prices and so did AMD.

Nonsense! AMD sell better cards for less. It's NV that has to move and is much more to blame for price hiking as they control the market.

Nvidia won’t move while AI is bringing in 10billion per quarter.

 

[Apex]

If that’s the case then why has the 4090 outsold all of AMDs RDNA3 put together so far, do you think it would have sold so well if Nvidia used a 103 die?

AMD are lowering prices because they need sales, Nvidia don’t as they are focusing on AI.

It’s the same price as the 6800XT has has been selling for most of the year with the same performance sure it’s better than the 4070 but beating that’s not hard.

Nvidia raised prices and so did AMD.

Nvidia won’t move while AI is bringing in 10billion per quarter.

Because people just buy NV.

You don't know what AMD need, GPU's are a sideline for AMD.

So i'll ask again how muich cheaper should the 7900XTX be than the 4080?

So? I suppose AMD should lower the 7800XT in price because it's smashing NV's awful 4070? What sort of business sense is that? - AMD doesn't care about competing or growing in the PC GPU market, and hasn't done for years, I don't know how you can't see that. And despite that they still have the best card at every price point except the Halo card, where they don't have a runner in the race ...

Yeah, they both raised prices, who raised them further? who sets the market? and who has the worst set of overpriced cards?

Clue: They play in Green!



I don't give a monkey's chuff what NV are doing with AI, all I care about is that their cards are garbage, so I don't buy them!


And despite all this, despite having the winner at every price point, it's all AMD's fault, and we all know why its all AMD's fault, same as it ever was, because stupid AMD won't lower their rpices so I can buy my NV card cheaper...

Some things never change in this space...


But you know whose really to blame? the 90% of consumers who keep buying Nvidia no matter what...not AMD, the company with a better card for them and cheaper. It's the idiot consumer who simply refuses to buy them, and instead simps and enables NV to bend them over every couple of years.

 

[RavenXXX2]

Another rambling fanboy, stop embarrassing yourself with corporate humping.

 

[Apex]

Another rambling fanboy, stop embarrassing yourself with corporate humping.

You'd know all about that.

You know every single thing I said is right. That's why you had to reach for the "fanboy" line. And If I am a fanboy, you know what I am a fan of? - Superior products at cheaper prices.

 

[Joxeon]

So i'll ask again how muich cheaper should the 7900XTX be than the 4080?

Had it released for £700-800 I’d have probably got one, I would have still considered it an increase over last gen for 80 class performance but it would have also been an opportunity to protest against the 4080 pricing by voting with my wallet for AMD, at this point though I’m not interested even if it dips below £800 as we are nearly half way through the cycle now.

I suppose AMD should lower the 7800XT in price because it's smashing NV's awful 4070? What sort of business sense is that? - AMD doesn't care about competing or growing in the PC GPU market, and hasn't done for years, I don't know how you can't see that. And despite that they still have the best card at every price point except the Halo card, where they don't have a runner in the race ...

At the end of the day AMD has knocked £120 off for the same level of performance after 3 years while Nvidia has knocked £70 off for 7% less performance so pretty much the same price to performance. Would you consider either of those good?

Yeah, they both raised prices, who raised them further? who sets the market? and who has the worst set of overpriced cards?

We shouldn’t be praising AMD for not raising prices as much as Nvidia, they still raised them by as much as they thought they could get away with as minor player without the mindshare.

I don't give a monkey's chuff what NV are doing with AI, all I care about is that their cards are garbage, so I don't buy them!

That is your right as a consumer, many people also feel the same way about AMD and are buying neither brand.

And despite all this, despite having the winner at every price point, it's all AMD's fault, and we all know why its all AMD's fault, same as it ever was, because stupid AMD won't lower their rpices so I can buy my NV card cheaper

No one is saying it’s all AMDs fault but rather neither manufacturer is offering anything compelling this generation.

 

[no_1_dave]

But you know whose really to blame? the 90% of consumers who keep buying Nvidia no matter what...not AMD, the company with a better card for them and cheaper. It's the idiot consumer who simply refuses to buy them, and instead simps and enables NV to bend them over every couple of years.

AMD should be cheaper, they're the budget king.

With NV you're paying for superior up-scaling with DLSS and superior ray-tracing performance
With AMD you're paying for pure rasterization performance with some mediocre up-scaling and ray-tracing ability

Ya buy whichever offers you the features you want... Save a couple of hundred pounds if you don't want the extra features, job done!!

Saying people are idiots if they pay more for Nvidia because they perform worse in rasterization is pretty short sighted when those worse performing cards can perform better in many scenarios... Just because you're not bothered about the extra features doesn't mean anybody who does want them is an idiot or a simp

 

[Apex]

AMD should be cheaper, they're the budget king.

With NV you're paying for superior up-scaling with DLSS and superior ray-tracing performance
With AMD you're paying for pure rasterization performance with some mediocre up-scaling and ray-tracing ability

Ya buy whichever offers you the features you want... Save a couple of hundred pounds if you don't want the extra features, job done!!

Saying people are idiots if they pay more for Nvidia because they perform worse in rasterization is pretty short sighted when those worse performing cards can perform better in many scenarios... Just because you're not bothered about the extra features doesn't mean anybody who does want them is an idiot or a simp

AMD make better cards for less, you can either buy real frames cheaper, or fake frames more expensively. I'll give you RT, although a cheaper 7900XTX beats the 4080 at it for £200-£300 less an overage, but hey ho...

I agree, though take your choice. I just don't see why AMD need to lower their prices when they're already cheaper and faster at every PP, or why AMD is to blame for NV's pricing which appeals to 90% of gamers whithout a seconds thought...

 

[Apex]

Had it released for £700-800 I’d have probably got one, I would have still considered it an increase over last gen for 80 class performance but it would have also been an opportunity to protest against the 4080 pricing by voting with my wallet for AMD, at this point though I’m not interested even if it dips below £800 as we are nearly half way through the cycle now.

At the end of the day AMD has knocked £120 off for the same level of performance after 3 years while Nvidia has knocked £70 off for 7% less performance so pretty much the same price to performance. Would you consider either of those good?

We shouldn’t be praising AMD for not raising prices as much as Nvidia, they still raised them by as much as they thought they could get away with as minor player without the mindshare.

That is your right as a consumer, many people also feel the same way about AMD and are buying neither brand.

No one is saying it’s all AMDs fault but rather neither manufacturer is offering anything compelling this generation.

So how much cheaper should a faster raster and RT card be today £500?

The implication is always the same though, it's AMD'd fault really that NV is so expensive, but the very people who want NV to be cheaper won't vote with their wallets.

I think AMD's offerings are far more compelling than NV's. So I don't agree they're both to blame really, I think NV and they're ever dependable built-in consumer base are. AMD's contributuon to the lousy state of GPU pricing is minimal IMO.

1. NV market leader, price setter, fastest card, huge mindshare, huge marketing, 90% of the market.

2. Consumers: Buy 90% NV no matter what every gen.

3. AMD make faster cheaper cards all the way down the stack.

Yet somehow little AMD are as much to blame as NV and their consumers?

Nah...

 

[Gerard]

You'd know all about that.

You know every single thing I said is right. That's why you had to reach for the "fanboy" line. And If I am a fanboy, you know what I am a fan of? - Superior products at cheaper prices.

Ask raven about his youtube channel where he made a FUD video back in 2010 about tessellation. He really loves me bringing that up, that's the most rabid fanboy act yet I've seen on here, so him calling others fanboys is quite amusing considering his past.

 

[Apex]

Ask raven about his youtube channel where he made a FUD video back in 2010 about tessellation. He really loves me bringing that up, that's the most rabid fanboy act yet I've seen on here, so him calling others fanboys is quite amusing considering his past.

Why am I not surprised?

 

[Gerard]

Why am I not surprised?

Yup, that was during the tessellation wars, nvidia I think it was released a demo and it had a bird in it, and the tessellation could be toggled on or off. He put text in the vid saying with it off it was amd tessellation and with it on it was nvidia tessellation. Then he was blabbering in the comments about amd cards being cheap rubbish. It was all rather sad. I found the vid and linked it on here and literally within moments it was made private with him claiming it wasn't him. Seems legit.