NVIDIA 780 Ti Announced (18/10/13)

[Suarez7]

the 780ti wont matter what its like and unless they put price at a level of the 290, its a doomed card.

The usual flopper nonsense.

 

[humbug]

I'm still an Nvidia owner and user and I will remain so, even though I have a 7990. My fiancee is getting my 670s but they are remaining 'in the family' per se.

That does not stop me seeing what's going on though. Just look back at history, it says a lot.

I'm going to go back as far as the 5870... £300 at launch. That was 3.8 years ago when the economy was in a much better state than it is now. What I mean is, £300 seemed like far less to me then than it does now. Nvidia spunked a fortune on Fermi, then released the GTX 480 for £430, or something around that figure.

AMD respond with their 69xx cards and they were a bit pony. Not terrible, but not good enough to stand up to the revised Fermi cards (notably the 580). What do Nvidia do? start charging £450 for their high end card. AMD remained at their £300ish price (6970).

Moving on. Nvidia by now are charging £450 for a 3gb GTX 580 and have been for over a year, as AMD have nothing to respond with (bad times for GPU fans). AMD then come up with the 7970, and charge £439 for it at launch, which is what Nvidia are charging for their GTX 580 3gb.

AMD are the biggest robbers ever, and people are completely up in arms. The thing is, though, they are only using their competition for a pricing guide. When that competition wasn't there (Fermi delays, poor yields, too hot, too loud, guzzle power) AMD charge what they think they can get away with - £300. The problem with Nvidia as I see it is that they are prepared to charge whatever the heck they like, ignoring the competition and the economic climate.

Kepler mid range at launch, again extracting the urine.

After that? well Nvidia had something AMD could not compete with at any price, so they set the prices for GK110 at any price. £800+ for the top card, £600 or so for the 780.

Now at the present day. Nvidia are still charging £500 for the 780. Well, actually no they're not, they're charging £550, but some retailers are competing and selling it for around £500. AMD release the 290x and again, because they're AMD they're not allowed to charge that much. They charge £450 for a card that pretty much is on level peggings with the Titan, yet AMD are all sorts of bad words and a cheap ass terrible company for charging that much.

What will happen now? the Nvidia cards have been given a reality slap, and prices will drop accordingly. That would not happen if it were not for AMD forcing them to drop prices, yet people can't see that.

I dunno. It's almost as bad as the Intel lot wanting AMD CPUs out of the way so they can brag endlessly about how they have the best processor, failing to realise that the only thing keeping Intel in check with their pricing is AMD.

I still remember the 80s when Nintendo dominated with the NES. We were stuck with the same console for bloody years. It was so boring.

This.

 

[LambChop]

the 780ti wont matter what its like and unless they put price at a level of the 290, its a doomed card.

LOL

The 'doomed' 780ti regardless of price will sell more on its own than anything AMD has to offer at any price point they sell them at.

Have you learned nothing over the years ?

 

[Rroff]

Its a bit bold to say the IPC race is over due to mantle, don't forget, at the moment only ONE game has been confirmed to get the mantle treatment, granted other frostbite titles will no doubt follow but that still leaves us with a single confirmed developer behind the API. AMD did say more would follow but have yet to be named.

Mantles success also depends how easy it is to code. If a developer finds it easier to code to say OGL, then that is the path they will most likely take.

I agree Mantle is an interesting proposition, but it is far far too early to make any statements about it changing the shape of hardware as we know it.

I'm not convinced either - especially as if you look at what they are doing with Steamroller being competitive against Intel where IPC counts is something they've paid attention to in the design (even if its a bit of a bruteforce double everything approach) - at a basic level IPC performance will be over 30% faster comparing like to like with their current CPUs while also able to attain higher clock rates.

 

[humbug]

I'm not convinced either - especially as if you look at what they are doing with Steamroller being competitive against Intel where IPC counts is something they've paid attention to in the design (even if its a bit of a bruteforce double everything approach) - at a basic level IPC performance will be over 30% faster comparing like to like with their current CPUs while also able to attain higher clock rates.

Lets hope so Roff, its been a long time coming and no real sign of that performance coming to pass.

Right now i'm happy with the performance of my Bloomfield i7, its as fast as a Haswel i5, the only real upgrade path is a newer i7, and their to expensive for my taste.

 

[DarrenM343]

AMD is changing the hardware landscape with mantle.
Not just with nvidia but with intel.
somewhow someone got smart there and thought out a plan, so with Mantle the IPC race with Intel is removed, the workload goes gpu.
the 290 have plenty of bandwidth which will help with higher resolutions and with mantle its really like to be a intersting playfield.
One that AMD played to win

the 780ti wont matter what its like and unless they put price at a level of the 290, its a doomed card.

I'm not sure myself, at the moment I 'm pessimistic on mantle. I'm wondering if AMD is trying to take the focus away from sheer hardware performance for a reason, ie, as they have struggled until recently to offer up Titan/Gtx 780 competition and Nvidia probably not far away from releasing more higher performing goodies so put the focus on an API which would/should allow games to run faster on their hardware.

Who knows, but mantle isn't a quick win, it will rely on developer take up which I struggle to see happening at present.
I fully expect MS to release DirectX 12 or another MS developed graphics API (and ditching the old DIrectX name)and this will be the easy/cheap option for developers to take products to AMD/Nvidia owners. PC market is in decline. If mantle to work with all recent AMD graphics products then there probably will be drawbacks. Lets face it the best graphics API would be bespoke to each manufacturer and probably each new line of products each manufacturer has. Imagine the cost of that (games and cards)

This are just my thoughts, Ihaven't read into Mantle too closely.

 

[Five.Stars]

I'm not sure myself, at the moment I 'm pessimistic on mantle. I'm wondering if AMD is trying to take the focus away from sheer hardware performance for a reason, ie, as they have struggled until recently to offer up Titan/Gtx 780 competition and Nvidia probably not far away from releasing more higher performing goodies so put the focus on an API which would/should allow games to run faster on their hardware.

Who knows, but mantle isn't a quick win, it will rely on developer take up which I struggle to see happening at present.
I fully expect MS to release DirectX 12 or another MS developed graphics API (and ditching the old DIrectX name)and this will be the easy/cheap option for developers to take products to AMD/Nvidia owners. PC market is in decline. If mantle to work with all recent AMD graphics products then there probably will be drawbacks. Lets face it the best graphics API would be bespoke to each manufacturer and probably each new line of products each manufacturer has. Imagine the cost of that (games and cards)

This are just my thoughts, Ihaven't read into Mantle too closely.

You are forgetting 1 crucial point though - both new consoles are based on GCN so developers will use Mantle if it gives them a higher level of performance on the console hardware, so this will possibly translate to the PC versions.

 

[Suarez7]

You are forgetting 1 crucial point though - both new consoles are based on GCN so developers will use Mantle if it gives them a higher level of performance on the console hardware, so this will possibly translate to the PC versions.

Wrong.

 

[humbug]

The BF4 Mentle Mantle update in December will tell its worth.

 

[no_1_dave]

AMD is changing the hardware landscape with mantle.
Not just with nvidia but with intel.
somewhow someone got smart there and thought out a plan, so with Mantle the IPC race with Intel is removed, the workload goes gpu.
the 290 have plenty of bandwidth which will help with higher resolutions and with mantle its really like to be a intersting playfield.
One that AMD played to win

the 780ti wont matter what its like and unless they put price at a level of the 290, its a doomed card.

I would place a large bet that mantle will boil down to some tweaks and slight fps gain in a minority of games. Nothing more. Certainly not game changing.

 

[ashmanuk67]

Is Open GL on par or better than DirectX ? I'm sure I've read on here that Open GL is better than DirectX.
If so why has no one bothered to bring more games to work with Open GL?

 

[Rroff]

Is Open GL on par or better than DirectX ? I'm sure I've read on here that Open GL is better than DirectX.
If so why has no one bothered to bring more games to work with Open GL?

Different - DirectX is easier to break into programming for but harder to get lower level control over features, Open GL takes a lot more effort to get into programming for but you have a bit more control over what its doing under the hood.

Open GL got marginalised by dirty tactics from MS back around the time when Vista was in development leading to a lot of developers moving away from it - that and the extra effort/experience required to work with it tends to put all but the more dedicated developers off.

 

[Rofflay]

The BF4 Mantle update in December will tell its worth.

Gsync easily beats Mantle imo it is simply no contest for me even if the 290X was 5% faster i would still take the 780TI. 780TI is my new card and i want one before Christmas please as i am fed up with tearing, stutter and crappy monitors.


Maybe if you like 120HZ TN Mantle is interesting but anyone else using a 60HZ panel should seriously be looking at Gsync with very eager eyes.

 

[ashmanuk67]

Different - DirectX is easier to break into programming for but harder to get lower level control over features, Open GL takes a lot more effort to get into programming for but you have a bit more control over what its doing under the hood.

Open GL got marginalised by dirty tactics from MS back around the time when Vista was in development leading to a lot of developers moving away from it - that and the extra effort/experience required to work with it tends to put all but the more dedicated developers off.

Great insight Rroff thanks,

I can understand now why no Open GL but also sad by this as it's all about bloody money and not the greater good.

I have a feeling Mantel will be very good and raise the FPS by a fair bit 10-15 FPS?? i class that as pretty good for a software update.

But G-Sync does seem to benefit everyone " well with a ASUS monitor" LOL

 

[Gregster]

Does anyone here want to see the 780Ti do well or do most want to see a fail?

 

[Marine-RX179]

Gsync easily beats Mantle imo it is simply no contest for me even if the 290X was 5% faster i would still take the 780TI. 780TI is my new card and i want one before Christmas please as i am fed up with tearing, stutter and crappy monitors.


Maybe if you like 120HZ TN Mantle is interesting but anyone else using a 60HZ panel should seriously be looking at Gsync with very eager eyes.

I hope you got budget for a new G-sync monitor as well, cause it doesn't seem like it would work with the standard 60Hz monitor.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Gsync easily beats Mantle imo it is simply no contest for me even if the 290X was 5% faster i would still take the 780TI. 780TI is my new card and i want one before Christmas please as i am fed up with tearing, stutter and crappy monitors.


Maybe if you like 120HZ TN Mantle is interesting but anyone else using a 60HZ panel should seriously be looking at Gsync with very eager eyes.

G-sync needs a 144HZ TN monitor last time I checked and a 100 to 130 quid module on top of this.

This means a metric ton of decent monitors are not supported including high end image editing orientated monitors.

Even though I have a compatible card,its out for me as I need a monitor with decent image quality for photography purposes,using an 8 bit IPS or VA type panel.

 

[Suarez7]

Does anyone here want to see the 780Ti do well or do most want to see a fail?

The majority of the forum will want to see it fail as in the last year this place has predominantly become AMD users with all the deals and low prices.

It won't fail anyway but let them have their fun/wacky theories.

 

[pgi947]

G-sync needs a 144HZ TN monitor last time I checked and a 100 to 130 quid module on top of this.

Even though I have a compatible card,its out for me as I need monitors with decent image quality for photography purposes,using an 8 bit IPS or VA type panel.

I was under the impression that it doesn't NEED to be a 144hz TN monitor, it just so happens that the current display that is G-SYNC compatible happens to be 144hz TN? I may be wrong, my knowledge of monitors, display types etc... is very limited.

plus didn't they say G-Sync would be available all the way up to 4K?

 

[andybird123]

G-sync needs a 144HZ TN monitor last time I checked and a 100 to 130 quid module on top of this.

This means a metric ton of decent monitors are not supported including high end image editing orientated monitors.

Even though I have a compatible card,its out for me as I need a monitor with decent image quality for photography purposes,using an 8 bit IPS or VA type panel.

Gsync will be coming to a full range of panel types and resolutions from 1080p through 1440p and up to 4K

don't know why people insist on spreading this fud that it's only going to be available on one monitor

the difference in price between the RRP's of the one Gsync one we've seen so far and non-Gsync monitor is also around $70, not £130