NVIDIA ‘Ampere’ 8nm Graphics Cards

[PrincessFrosty]

Nvidia are like a franchise they have no interest in selling their own products that's lots of extra work for relatively little extra return. Instead they design a product and sell on the components necessary to build the video cards and let the market fight amoung themselves for sales. The FE cards are vanity projects not designed to make money but instead designed to produce a very nice looking model to put into marketing at an impossibly low price to generate hype which all the AIBs benefit from. It's why the FEs were priced fixed for example, when Nvidia stopped selling them in the UK and picked a single UK etailer to distribute then, the cards kept their exact RRP, it's also why supply of them is absolutely tiny. There's been a few tear downs of the FE cards which have looked at cost of components and manufacturing and the card is pretty close to being sold at cost.

Nvidia are like McDonalds and the AIBs are like the franchised restaurants. And the FEs are like the adverts on TV that McDonalds pay for.

 

[Richdog]

Well, the pricing of Nvidia cards is really lowering. In my non-UK region, cheapest prices (converted to GBP) for the Ampere cards (pre-order still) are:

ASUS TUF 3080 = £620
ASUS DUAL 3070 = £488

With the sky-high pricing of the 6800 series and the cheapest one being £720... the 3080 10GB at £620 is actually starting to seem appealing even if I do have concerns over the VRAM going into 2021/2022. I mean seriously, the cheapest 6800XT being 16% more expensive than a good RTX 3080 is just complete madness, and it's not even friggen available.

At this point I think that DLSS performance in RT titles is turning into an increasingly bigger differentiator and I think will be increasingly important in the next couple of years. To be clear, I am brand agnostic and want AMD to also do well and release AMDLSS that competes at the high-end, but I just cant see them surpassing Nvidia, with their additional generation of NVDLSS maturity, any time soon.

The RTX 3060 being pretty much similar performance to a 3070 when overclocked, and benefitting from DLSS, means that AMD are going to be even further squeezed down the line now and in some cases a 3060 will even compete with a 6800 in specific titles that make good use of NVDLSS.

MILD said in his latest video thinks that he thinks there will be a 3070Ti 10GB for $599 that will effectively replace the RTX 3080, which makes sense as the 3060 is so close. The 3080Ti 20GB will likely then replace the 3090 for $999. Nvidia will then focus on mass production of those SKU's.

January is going to be interesting and I am curious to see if the 3080Ti launches with decent availability and if it can pip or at least equal the 3090 in performance.

I've already explained it, its about creating the illusion of an RRP which isnt actually available to most people. Just look at reviews, they don't compare value or price/performance at the average selling price. They all use the RRP which you could argue isn't real, the average selling price will be way higher (ignoring the gouging by retailers). Hardly anything has an average selling price above RRP, normally things are 'discounted' below it.

It's not a hassle to manufacture it, you use a contract manufacturer like Foxconn and they do all the hard work. They already do that for the FE.

To be clear, the AMD are doing the exact same thing with their 'limited' RRP cards.

Yeah, he was really oversimplifying things and understating the amount of work required for Nvidia to do that. AIB's take away a lot of the pain of all of that daunting logistical process of supplying the world with cards and it would be a hell of a lot of extra work for questionable gain.

 

[Shaz12]

So NVIDIA could simplify their SKU to

RTX 3060ti
RTX 3080

and call it a day.

I think you are oversimplifying it a bit. While the 3070 is around 13% faster than the 3060 Ti, sometimes that is the difference between 60 FPS and unplayable. In games like Horizon zero dawn, where the cards would struggle to keep FPS above 60 that extra 13% is a life saver.

 

[Richdog]

I think you are oversimplifying it a bit. While the 3070 is around 13% faster than the 3060 Ti, sometimes that is the difference between 60 FPS and unplayable. In games like Horizon zero dawn, where the cards would struggle to keep FPS above 60 that extra 13% is a life saver.

With 3060Ti overclocking the gap goes to less than 13%, almost to stock 3070 performance. There's a reason why Nvidia have done this and we will likely, as some rumor sites say, see a 3070Ti 12GB and 3080Ti 20GB next year to differentiate the lineup.

 

[Shaz12]

With 3060Ti overclocking the gap goes to less than 13%, almost to stock 3070 performance. There's a reason why Nvidia have done this and we will likely, as some rumor sites say, see a 3070Ti 12GB and 3080Ti 20GB next year to differentiate the lineup.

The 3070 can also be overclocked so the gap persists. I am still having problems getting a 3080/6800XT so the £999 price point for the 3080 Ti is a pipe dream. I still remember the mythical £999 price point for the 2080 Ti while the real prices were around the £1100 range. 3080 Ti will launch in January but realistically will only be available around March/April or so.

At that point, might as well wait for the Super refresh or whatever’s next. This was one of the most terrible release NVIDIA has ever done tbh.

 

[Richdog]

The 3070 can also be overclocked so the gap persists

Yes, but it's not worth paying 24%+ extra for and the reviewers all seem to be coming to the same conclusions. The 8GB VRAM is the final nail in the coffin for the 3070 now that the 3060Ti has arrived.

 

[g67575]

That chart really highlights how odd the 6800 price is. Almost the full cost of a 6800XT but you lose a lot of perf. Just weird.

True. But, AMD had to leave room for the 6700 series GPUs, the xt should compete with the 3070. I think people will still buy the 6800 to have more vram than the 6700 and 3070.

 

[gpuerrilla]

With the sky-high pricing of the 6800 series and the cheapest one being £720... the 3080 10GB at £620 is actually starting to seem appealing even if I do have concerns over the VRAM going into 2021/2022. I mean seriously, the cheapest 6800XT being 16% more expensive than a good RTX 3080 is just complete madness, and it's not even friggen available.

At this point I think that DLSS performance in RT titles is turning into an increasingly bigger differentiator and I think will be increasingly important in the next couple of years. To be clear, I am brand agnostic and want AMD to also do well and release AMDLSS that competes at the high-end, but I just cant see them surpassing Nvidia, with their additional generation of NVDLSS maturity, any time soon.

Yes we never thought getting beyond the launches that AMD would offer their equivelent card at higher price than the nvidia one. Really frustrated me, missed out on the reference, no way I was paying AIB markup after that (and still waiting more weeks). The 3080FE sets the benchmark im afraid, yes annoying with the 10Gb VRAM but its the best value for a 4k or high end 1440p beast. Having the 6800XT at way more ££ than the 3080 is fail for me and I am kinder historically to AMD than nvidia.

It may all change in six months time where the 6800XT might be same or cheaper by then, but the race (for me) was lost by then. They would have redeemed themselves if huge tsunami's of shipments were inbound for reference 6800 + 6800XT's for £599 and below, but sadly its not the case.

 

[Richdog]

Yes we never thought getting beyond the launches that AMD would offer their equivelent card at higher price than the nvidia one. Really frustrated me, missed out on the reference, no way I was paying AIB markup after that (and still waiting more weeks). The 3080FE sets the benchmark im afraid, yes annoying with the 10Gb VRAM but its the best value for a 4k or high end 1440p beast. Having the 6800XT at way more ££ than the 3080 is fail for me and I am kinder historically to AMD than nvidia.

It may all change in six months time where the 6800XT might be same or cheaper by then, but the race (for me) was lost by then. They would have redeemed themselves if huge tsunami's of shipments were inbound for reference 6800 + 6800XT's for £599 and below, but sadly its not the case.

I completely agree and it's just mind-boggling how hard both companies failed; first with Nvidia and then how we all just assumed AMD, our favourite underdog, would do better a couple of months later. Amazingly, they didn't. Far from it.

So far, a 3080 at MSRP is currently the best GPU out there in terms of overall performance at higher resolutions, better RT and a mature and proven NVDLSS that will no doubt soon be rolled out to many more titles. The VRAM is the only potential achilles heel, yet to be seen in 2021/2022.

AMD have done very well with the 6800XT performance to ge tit to where it is, but after seeing so many reviews and benchmarks I can't help but feel that Nvidia is still the better overall package. When you then factor in the higher price of the 6800XT, it is for me at the moment it is quite clear-cut.

 

[TNA]

Yes we never thought getting beyond the launches that AMD would offer their equivelent card at higher price than the nvidia one. Really frustrated me, missed out on the reference, no way I was paying AIB markup after that (and still waiting more weeks). The 3080FE sets the benchmark im afraid, yes annoying with the 10Gb VRAM but its the best value for a 4k or high end 1440p beast. Having the 6800XT at way more ££ than the 3080 is fail for me and I am kinder historically to AMD than nvidia.

It may all change in six months time where the 6800XT might be same or cheaper by then, but the race (for me) was lost by then. They would have redeemed themselves if huge tsunami's of shipments were inbound for reference 6800 + 6800XT's for £599 and below, but sadly its not the case.

Yeah. They pushed you to buy a 3090 no lube edition, just like a few years ago they pushed me to get a 4K g-sync monitor after I had waited about a year for them to release a freesync 2 after it was announced.

In the end I am well happy with my choice of going 3080FE. Especially because it ended up being sub £600 after selling the game codes and cashback

 

[Harlequin]

TSMC are selling AMD 40,000 wafers a month , they are its largest customer now. That is the demand for AMD products, that everything they are making is selling out. The same with Nvidia and Samsung (which is the reason why Nv are on 8nm DUV - Sasmsung havent ramped its own 7nm EUV yet)

 

[aoaaron]

I think both companies are very happy with thier sales and no one is in a rush to upgrade.

The only thing NVIDIA will do, for ego sake, is lay the smackdown on the 6900XT with a 3080TI for LESS money than it. Not sure when they'll do this but it will be a bit of a blow for AMD's highest-tier card's sales IMO.

 

[ICDP]

I think both companies are very happy with thier sales and no one is in a rush to upgrade.

The only thing NVIDIA will do, for ego sake, is lay the smackdown on the 6900XT with a 3080TI for LESS money than it. Not sure when they'll do this but it will be a bit of a blow for AMD's highest-tier card's sales IMO.

Are you serious? Nvidia NEVER give you more than a competitors product for less money.

 

[varkanoid]

I think both companies are very happy with thier sales and no one is in a rush to upgrade.

Are you serious? Thousands are in a rush to upgrade thats why they have Discord watching the drops etc. Moaning no stock etc etc etc.

 

[Tiny_D]

I completely agree and it's just mind-boggling how hard both companies failed;

Respectfully disagree with you Rich neither company failed!

Nvidia sold the majority of chips for higher profit margins to miners, while forcing the gamer market prices higher, profits on the earning call up, gamers don't have a choice and will continue to pay the market rates.

It's likely AMD did similar, though their problems are compounded by the console chip supply, and while AMD did force gamer GPU's though a bios lock to not mine well thus giving this optic to the average gamer that AMD want you the gamer to have their cards, AMD still sell the Chips direct to mining companies like Nvidia and ahead of the gamers like us because we will still be here fighting for stock at higher prices due to shortages.

Both AMD and Nvidia have won successfully, and yes if they could sell more cards they would though TSMC and Samsungs fabs are at capacity so both companies have maximised profits at the expense of gamers/enthusiasts.

We the consumer lost, the company's won without doubt.

 

[Grim5]

TSMC are selling AMD 40,000 wafers a month , they are its largest customer now. That is the demand for AMD products, that everything they are making is selling out. The same with Nvidia and Samsung (which is the reason why Nv are on 8nm DUV - Sasmsung havent ramped its own 7nm EUV yet)

At $20k USD per 7nm wafer TSMC is making bank! And this is before next years 20-40% wafer price increase - oh and 5nm is another $10k usd over the 7nm wafer price. AMD will be paying TSMC about $1.5bilion usd a month for wafers this time next year lol

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Respectfully disagree with you Rich neither company failed!

Nvidia sold the majority of chips for higher profit margins to miners, while forcing the gamer market prices higher, profits on the earning call up, gamers don't have a choice and will continue to pay the market rates.

It's likely AMD did similar, though their problems are compounded by the console chip supply, and while AMD did force gamer GPU's though a bios lock to not mine well thus giving this optic to the average gamer that AMD want you the gamer to have their cards, AMD still sell the Chips direct to mining companies like Nvidia and ahead of the gamers like us because we will still be here fighting for stock at higher prices due to shortages.

Both AMD and Nvidia have won successfully, and yes if they could sell more cards they would though TSMC and Samsungs fabs are at capacity so both companies have maximised profits at the expense of gamers/enthusiasts.

We the consumer lost, the company's won without doubt.

Last I heard Rdna2 is crap at mining. Not sure what mining firm would buy it.

 

[Tiny_D]

Last I heard Rdna2 is crap at mining. Not sure what mining firm would buy it.

Morning Chuck, read what I put bud, they forced the gamer cards through locks to be crap at mining thus giving the optics of not supporting miners, AMD like Nvidia sell chips direct to mining firms who make/design their own PCB and build there own cards, these are straight chips not locked on the PCB like retail cards.

 

[Harlequin]

At $20k USD per 7nm wafer TSMC is making bank! And this is before next years 20-40% wafer price increase - oh and 5nm is another $10k usd over the 7nm wafer price. AMD will be paying TSMC about $1.5bilion usd a month for wafers this time next year lol

Its $10,000 per wafer not $20000. Even 5nm for Apple isnt quite at that yet. TSMC have around $15 billion to recover on the node

 

[Richdog]

Respectfully disagree with you Rich neither company failed!

Nvidia sold the majority of chips for higher profit margins to miners, while forcing the gamer market prices higher, profits on the earning call up, gamers don't have a choice and will continue to pay the market rates.

It's likely AMD did similar, though their problems are compounded by the console chip supply, and while AMD did force gamer GPU's though a bios lock to not mine well thus giving this optic to the average gamer that AMD want you the gamer to have their cards, AMD still sell the Chips direct to mining companies like Nvidia and ahead of the gamers like us because we will still be here fighting for stock at higher prices due to shortages.

Both AMD and Nvidia have won successfully, and yes if they could sell more cards they would though TSMC and Samsungs fabs are at capacity so both companies have maximised profits at the expense of gamers/enthusiasts.

We the consumer lost, the company's won without doubt.

Hah, well TinyD that's one way to look at it, but I of course meant in the context of providing an adequate launch of their gaming cards to the eager gamer crowd.

It wasn't acceptable by any standards and has been a frustrating experience for millions of people.