Nvidia attacks PS4 hardware, calls it "low-end"

If bare metal coding is so great why do all console games take place in corridors or have invisible walls (New Vegas).

I believe this was mostly down to ram limitations which has been more than compensated for in the ps4 which has 8gb of ddr5. Developers are already talking about more open world games on the ps4 because they have plenty of ram and much more horsepower to work with.
 
That's not remotely true. Most PC gamers are well aware that a 7850 in a console is far more capable than it is in a PC. Very few would argue otherwise.

You obviously missed the threads over time in here when-PC grunt is far better than paltry console specs debates incur with the usual-'don't talk ***** tommy'.

Which results in having to go and search for AMD's/Carmacks explanation to shut them up.;)

Hence the reason no one's picked up on what I originally said on the matter.

I agree about the toys out the pram bit though, that's always the way it goes when someone can do what Nvidia can't.

:)
 
2006

New,consoles released which are massively faster than old consoles.

Hardware enthusiasts on the internet,whinging since the new consoles are holding back PC games due to X,Y and Z technical factors.

2011

Hardware enthusiasts on the internet,whinging since the old consoles are holding back PC games due to X,Y and Z technical factors.

2013

New,consoles released which are massively faster than old consoles.

Hardware enthusiasts on the internet,whinging since the new consoles are holding back PC games due to X,Y and Z technical factors.
 
You obviously missed the threads over time in here when-PC grunt is far better than paltry console specs debates incur with the usual-'don't talk ***** tommy'.

PC grunt is better, if you spend enough.

But obviously a 7850 isn't going to perform as well in an open system as it will in a closed one. I don't think I've seen anyone argue that it will.
 
Bare metal coding has its merits but not overly useful in the end as you have only a very small handful of developers who have the experience, skill and passion to make full use of what it can provide.

Personally I think the GPU is under-powered, its great if you look at it from the perspective of 720p and 30fps but quite a lot more limited if you start talking 1080p or even beyond, 60fps and some real AA in future titles.

Likewise for the CPU I think its a bad move to go for lots of medium performance cores for games when a typical game making heavy use of multi-threading will have 2 threads that will eat all the cycles you can throw at them then around 4 extra threads doing lighter workload - they should have gone for an architecture that had 2 high clocked and 4 medium clocked cores instead, again its something that plays much more to games that are ticking over at a hard limited 30fps and doesn't bode so well for games that are ported to PC as they will require a fairly major redesign to get the best out of the PC.
 
Thanks for that link, it was exactly what my meager rumblings earlier on in the thread was about, but lotts tells it like it should:



Being a PC gamer, I can never grasp why 99% of PC gamers ignore the fact that consoles don't need colossal gpu's in them in the first place.

But that's what Nvidia are counting on with their petulant childish outburst-PC gamers ignorance of the tech-which is plain to see with the comments on the PS4 spec.

Indeed. I am also loving the the fact that a downclocked HD7870 is now "low end".....

If bare metal coding is so great why do all console games take place in corridors or have invisible walls (New Vegas).

Ignoring for a moment that this doesn't cover all console games at all (Just Cause 2 being a good example), we have to remember that the tech inside the current generation consoles is pretty damn old. There is only so much power available and it is basically all tapped out.
 
I didnt think its a 7850 in a ps4 though? A 7850 "runs" at 1.75Tflops and the PS4 GPU runs at 1.84 while using GCN 2.0, making it slightly faster and more efficient, of course this is rumour at present.
 
As long as the PS4 blows the PS3 out of the water with its improvements i dont care what some bitter Nvidia employee has to say, consoles need to price competitive, and judging by his comment on money Sony wanted to pay, it would make the console quite expensive .
 
They sell a £900 graphics card, and we're surprised they're ****ging off a full gaming product that will likely cost less than half that?
 
Because AMD are in it. This is a very AMD orientated forum and any chance they get to jump on Nvidia, they do :)

There's a large difference in being "AMD orientated" and people getting annoyed with all the stuff nVidia do, it's a shame you can't see it the way it is.

I pointed out that we are in for 4K TV's soon and that got rubbished. I will be getting one but I don't count I guess. :(

You didn't get rubbished, your comment was basically set straight. 4K TVs are great, I don't think there will be many people on this forum that don't think that, but that wasn't the point.

Going to 4K isn't going to make 1080P games look worse, because each pixel is being halved in size so 4 pixels will take up the space of where 1 pixel was on a 1080P TV.

This means that say, on a 42" TV, 1080P content will look just as good on a 4K display than it did on the 1080P display.

You wrongly asserted that it would all look rubbish on a 4K TV, which is what was rubbished, not the notion of 4K TVs.

You should try and not be so sensitive.
 
But that's what Nvidia are counting on with their petulant childish outburst-PC gamers ignorance of the tech-which is plain to see with the comments on the PS4 spec.

You just need to look at a lot of the "debates" on these forums, where people who open admit that they have no idea when it comes to the technicalities of the subject try to wade in on something because they don't like that company x has been criticised. The actual subject and point of criticism is completely and totally ignored, and just the simple act of criticising is the only point that they can reply to.

The vast majority of PC gamers know absolutely nothing whatsoever about their chips and companies they discuss but become experts at a moment's notice.
 
Bare metal coding has its merits but not overly useful in the end as you have only a very small handful of developers who have the experience, skill and passion to make full use of what it can provide.

Personally I think the GPU is under-powered, its great if you look at it from the perspective of 720p and 30fps but quite a lot more limited if you start talking 1080p or even beyond, 60fps and some real AA in future titles.

Likewise for the CPU I think its a bad move to go for lots of medium performance cores for games when a typical game making heavy use of multi-threading will have 2 threads that will eat all the cycles you can throw at them then around 4 extra threads doing lighter workload - they should have gone for an architecture that had 2 high clocked and 4 medium clocked cores instead, again its something that plays much more to games that are ticking over at a hard limited 30fps and doesn't bode so well for games that are ported to PC as they will require a fairly major redesign to get the best out of the PC.

Very often, you come across as looking like you know what you're talking about, but what you're actually saying is very clueless.

I think I would take the word over a load of developers than I would someone like yourself. This isn't really a dig at you, but it's an observation of the type of comments you make, that use a lot of words, but say little to nothing of value.

If a 7850 can now play a multitude of games at 1080 at 60FPS with all the overheads of running games on Windows, why would you even come out and say something as ridiculous as "herp derp, I can see 720p at 30FPS"?

720P at 30FPS is the domain of the current consoles, not all meet that, but a lot do and their hardware is ancient. You should know full well that a lot more performance can be squeezed out of hardware in a console environment. I am quite impressed still now how good some games look on PS3 considering the hardware it runs on.

As for the comments about the CPU, that also makes it look like you have no idea what you're talking about. Hardware isn't made to suit games, games are made to suit hardware. Additionally, taking in to account the strong lack of overheads, "medium performance" in a PC environment doesn't mean medium performance in a console environment. Sony is clearly going to be pushing games to use as many threads as necessary.

Honestly, considering the way you regularly post as if from a perspective of knowledge and experience, it really does surprise me that you come out with stuff like this so often.
 
"If the PS4 ships in December as Sony indicated, it will only offer about half the performance of a GTX680 GPU (based on GFLOPS and texture), which launched in March 2012, more than a year and a half ago."

If this is true my GTX480 should last a while yet :D
 
Very often, you come across as looking like you know what you're talking about, but what you're actually saying is very clueless.

I think I would take the word over a load of developers than I would someone like yourself. This isn't really a dig at you, but it's an observation of the type of comments you make, that use a lot of words, but say little to nothing of value.

Honestly, considering the way you regularly post as if from a perspective of knowledge and experience, it really does surprise me that you come out with stuff like this so often.
Have to agree with you - a lot of what he said just isnt relevant to the console arena...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
If a 7850 can now play a multitude of games at 1080 at 60FPS with all the overheads of running games on Windows, why would you even come out and say something as ridiculous as "herp derp, I can see 720p at 30FPS"?

720P at 30FPS is the domain of the current consoles, not all meet that, but a lot do and their hardware is ancient. You should know full well that a lot more performance can be squeezed out of hardware in a console environment. I am quite impressed still now how good some games look on PS3 considering the hardware it runs on.

As for the comments about the CPU, that also makes it look like you have no idea what you're talking about. Hardware isn't made to suit games, games are made to suit hardware. Additionally, taking in to account the strong lack of overheads, "medium performance" in a PC environment doesn't mean medium performance in a console environment. Sony is clearly going to be pushing games to use as many threads as necessary.

The GPU in the PS4 has to last quite awhile handling progressively more detailed games at those level of resolution and framerate, for that I consider it underpowered as in the long term games developed with 720/30 in mind are going to be frequently fewer.

While as a generalisation hardware isn't made to suit software in the context of dedicated hardware like a games console it makes sense to design it to suit the type of work its doing and for the vast majority of game engines 1-2 high performance threads and a larger number of lower performance threads work best - with lots of medium performance threads your going to end up waiting on 1-2 threads bringing performance down a lot.

Very often, you come across as looking like you know what you're talking about, but what you're actually saying is very clueless.

Honestly, considering the way you regularly post as if from a perspective of knowledge and experience, it really does surprise me that you come out with stuff like this so often.

My posts may not always be the most eloquent or well thought out but unlike quite a few I do actually have some both industry and hobbyist experience when it comes to game development with more than 15 years experience in programming, level design and so on.
 
The GPU in the PS4 has to last quite awhile handling progressively more detailed games at those level of resolution and framerate, for that I consider it underpowered as in the long term games developed with 720/30 in mind are going to be frequently fewer.

While as a generalisation hardware isn't made to suit software in the context of dedicated hardware like a games console it makes sense to design it to suit the type of work its doing and for the vast majority of game engines 1-2 high performance threads and a larger number of lower performance threads work best - with lots of medium performance threads your going to end up waiting on 1-2 threads bringing performance down a lot.



My posts may not always be the most eloquent or well thought out but unlike quite a few I do actually have some both industry and hobbyist experience when it comes to game development with more than 15 years experience in programming, level design and so on.

Would you say this guy knows what hes talking about though.

Avalanche CTO and co-founder Linus Blomberg
"Absolutely. The hardware as such is great, and will outperform most PC's for many years to come. But the true greatness lies in the accessibility and ecosystem supporting it in terms of social connectivity and cloud services."

If so hes does not seem worried at all.
 
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TBH a lot of those quote a pure soundbites, a lot of those comments are from producers/directors/graphic designers rather than technical people, without knowing each of them individually its hard to know how much they actually really know or not about the hardware.

EDIT: Obviously Linus Blomberg being a CTO probably has a bit more insight than many of the others but I'm not that convinced by his comment especially the use of "as such" and deflects towards the feature support rather than the hardware capabilities. "Most PCs" being a very carefully choosen choice of words.
 
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TBH a lot of those quote a pure soundbites, a lot of those comments are from producers/directors/graphic designers rather than technical people, without knowing each of them individually its hard to know how much they actually really know or not about the hardware.

EDIT: Obviously Linus Blomberg being a CTO probably has a bit more insight than many of the others but I'm not that convinced by his comment especially the use of "as such" and deflects towards the feature support rather than the hardware capabilities. "Most PCs" being a very carefully choosen choice of words.

Riiight

:/
 
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