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Nvidia causes DX10.1 to be removed from Assassin's Creed?

queamin said:
I do wonder how would the 2900 Have preformed if dx10 would have been left as it was going to be in the first place as the 3*** did seam get a boost. but is meant to be buggy code and to be honest if i had a 3*** and it worked ok i think i wouldn't care if i was getting a big incease in frames.
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I've seen this tested somewhere. The 2900XT got no AA boost in AC. That's what you'd expect as the 2900XT is DX10.0.
 
RizlaKing said:
"So why not fix it rather than completely remove it"

At the minute Nvidia seem unable to implement DX10.1 into their cards and this gave the Ati cards a speed boost in a game that is meant to be totally Nvidia. It must have been a little embarasing for Nvidia having a TWIMTBP title that performed better on their rivals hardware with DX10.1 implemented.
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more on the lines that there could be issues with dx10.1 as a whole. nvidia has decided not to implement it yet. and ATi's implementation of dx10.1 seems to bork the ability to use Anistropic Filtering and going from without AF to with AF has a massive performance impact for the ATi cards.
im wouldnt be surprised if the call to remove dx10.1 from the game was ATi's idea.

this sort of stuff has happened before though, where one card manufacturer would see a boost in fps performance because of rendering issues where image quality was effected.

if ATi can manage the performance glitch that dx10.1 provides thier card BUT WITH Anistropic Filtering Enabled, then its a completly different story.
 
Cyber-Mav said:
more on the lines that there could be issues with dx10.1 as a whole. nvidia has decided not to implement it yet. and ATi's implementation of dx10.1 seems to bork the ability to use Anistropic Filtering and going from without AF to with AF has a massive performance impact for the ATi cards.
im wouldnt be surprised if the call to remove dx10.1 from the game was ATi's idea.

this sort of stuff has happened before though, where one card manufacturer would see a boost in fps performance because of rendering issues where image quality was effected.

if ATi can manage the performance glitch that dx10.1 provides thier card BUT WITH Anistropic Filtering Enabled, then its a completly different story.
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Mav you still working for nvidia, i heard they rang you up :p
 
jokes aside, im sure dx10.1 will be back as soon as ATi and ubisoft have had a chance to discuss things with each other and get the bugs sorted out.
and im sure nvidia want it to be sorted out too since this whole dx10.1 fiasco will bring down thier reputation too as not a fair player in the industry.
 
Cyber-Mav said:
jokes aside, im sure dx10.1 will be back as soon as ATi and ubisoft have had a chance to discuss things with each other and get the bugs sorted out.
and im sure nvidia want it to be sorted out too since this whole dx10.1 fiasco will bring down thier reputation too as not a fair player in the industry.
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Hope so as we need to move on,where is dx11 :p couldn't resist.
 
Cyber-Mav. Games have came out before and have had bugs where AF, AA couldn't be enabled and such. As well as a host of other things. I think it's not fair to comment on that until ATI brought out a driver that enabled AF in game on Assassins Creed. Then we could really see if DX10.1 does have an impact on the game without the differential between Nvidia and ATI, using the exact same settings.

If with full AF there is a gain still present using DX10.1 then it's pretty obvious what's happened. If there is no gain present and the hike in performances was due to the lack of AF then that would prove that DX10.1 is nothing to shout about. Or not just yet at least.

I knew about the lack of AF but without there being a driver to let this happen when using the DX10.1 code, all there was left was the performance gain and you do wonder if it's all down to the AF but with only speculation left and Nvidia's lack of innovation showing through with other things (G92 GTX, GX2) it's plausible to think with Nvidia not using this technology and being friendly with Ubisoft that something strange is going on. I want to believe that it's down to the AF but I need for it to be proven as my thoughts are dubious about Nvidia on this matter.
 
J.D said:
Cyber-Mav. Games have came out before and have had bugs where AF, AA couldn't be enabled and such. As well as a host of other things. I think it's not fair to comment on that until ATI brought out a driver that enabled AF in game on Assassins Creed. Then we could really see if DX10.1 does have an impact on the game without the differential between Nvidia and ATI, using the exact same settings.

If with full AF there is a gain still present using DX10.1 then it's pretty obvious what's happened. If there is no gain present and the hike in performances was due to the lack of AF then that would prove that DX10.1 is nothing to shout about. Or not just yet at least.

I knew about the lack of AF but without there being a driver to let this happen when using the DX10.1 code, all there was left was the performance gain and you do wonder if it's all down to the AF but with only speculation left and Nvidia's lack of innovation showing through with other things (G92 GTX, GX2) it's plausible to think with Nvidia not using this technology and being friendly with Ubisoft that something strange is going on. I want to believe that it's down to the AF but I need for it to be proven as my thoughts are dubious about Nvidia on this matter.
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I do feel the same as the way nvidia have been acting not just to ati/amd but intel aswell, i do think they feel threatened by intel.
On a side note the gpu folding and encoding by the gpu nvidia are looking at seams useful we will see and i would think intel/amd are watching aswell.
 
nvidia had it easy for a while, things might be getting harder for them with amd and intel later in the year and early next year and that is why they been acting like they have.
They big in add on graphics's cards but the giant is looking their way now:p.
 
some sites have now tested this to see if its true. i believe hardocp is one of the sites that have shown that forcing AF in assassins creed hurts ati's performance very badly.

only time will tell though. hopefully the working dx10.1 code is added so AF works and then performance can be guaged. im expecting whatever performance boost dx10.1 gave to the ati cards to diminish at an alarming rate. dx10.1 may still offer some performance increase, probably up to 5% but the 30% boost its giving right now shows that something is not right to begin with otherwise im sure nvidia would be pushing to get dx10.1 support into all thier new hardware much faster.
 
I am surprised that nvidia haven't got dx10.1 working unless they don't think it worth it and to be honest i don't know if it is really until it i see some games out.
 
queamin said:
I do feel the same as the way nvidia have been acting not just to ati/amd but intel aswell, i do think they feel threatened by intel.
On a side note the gpu folding and encoding by the gpu nvidia are looking at seams useful we will see and i would think intel/amd are watching aswell.
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Yes, they seem to not want to share the ball with anyone :D.

The folding thing is pretty great, I agree. Maybe ATI in this regard have not upped their folding output and concentrated mainly on AA performances. I'd be totally blown over if the new HD 4870XT could run AA very well, give great FPS and would be the best folding card ATI have had to date. Even at this, the new folding capabilities of GT200 make it look like Nvidia has the folding crew in the bag. I don't think ATI will match them in that regard as it seems pretty special.

I've never tried folding before so I've maybe erm, said to much :o.
 
J.D said:
Yes, they seem to not want to share the ball with anyone :D.

The folding thing is pretty great, I agree. Maybe ATI in this regard have not upped their folding output and concentrated mainly on AA performances. I'd be totally blown over if the new HD 4870XT could run AA very well, give great FPS and would be the best folding card ATI have had to date. Even at this, the new folding capabilities of GT200 make it look like Nvidia has the folding crew in the bag. I don't think ATI will match them in that regard as it seems pretty special.

I've never tried folding before so I've maybe erm, said to much :o.
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I do think ati will come in at a good price, they have to if they not faster and they can make their cards cheaper that always helps.
 
queamin said:
I am surprised that nvidia haven't got dx10.1 working unless they don't think it worth it and to be honest i don't know if it is really until it i see some games out.
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seeing as how dx10 itself is such a flop, i can see why they would think that dx10.1 is useless too.

currently dx9 seems to do everything dx10 can, if you use your config files properly ;) *cough* crysis *cough*
 
queamin said:
I do think ati will come in at a good price, they have to if they not faster and they can make their cards cheaper that always helps.
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They'd be mad not too. The price and efficiency change with the 3850/70 gave ATI some ground back on the battle for G80/G92 vs R600/R670 where performances never changed. I think that strategy will continue to be a success.

Also on the DX10.1 debate lol. I'm still on XP :D. It doesn't bother me for using it but it bothered me that if there was still a gain to be had with identical AF settings, that there were some users getting cheated out of this because of the lack of innovation from Nvidia to implement this onto their cards. That's why I have been involved in these discussions as I see it as unfair but I do have to see a proper benchmark to verify if this stinks as much as we've been led to believe. Maybe aye, maybe naw.
 
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