Nvidia Gameworks at Gamescom 2015

[oldestgregg]

i like how u lot kept quoting me without a response and kept banging the drum. gamework demos look great and dandy but in games all they add is a little bit of extra eye candy but at a big performance hit for either nvidia or amd with AMD taking the bigger performance hit because of their weaker tessellation! You guys replied as if i was a AMD fanboy lol. ive got to admit its quite funny reading the replys. I don't have a specific brand loyalty. I just wish gameworks just didn't take as much of a performance hit and didn't make the impression that when used in games it makes them run abysmal(mainly at launch/release).

With currently rocking a 290x i see the gameworks performance effect more than you guys do as your running nvidia hardware

I know greg said it ran okay on his furyx but tessellation is slightly better on the furyx than on previous AMD cards. Still worse than nvidia mind you! But i dont want to go start dipping under 60 FPS when using gameworks effects. And yes you can turn some gamework effects off if the developer enables this feature. Wasn't present in witcher 3 until a big fuss was made. But usually the games still seem to run worse on amd hardware due to gameworks as the game is more optimised for nvidia due to the licensing.

Yea i know AMD could pull their finger out and do something about it but the point i was making was 1 its not optimised very well as people are making out. And two it hurts AMD users and mantle never hurt anyone. FYI i didn't bring mantle into the discussion some other guys did.

and three im looking at upgrading to a 980Ti currently before u start giving flak. Or possibly waiting to see what pascal brings to the table not sure yet. Quite excited to see pascal! I say quite i mean REALLY

I knind of understand where you are coming from but at the same time,adding an extra layer of effects is obviously going to ask more of your hardware. They are there for people who choose to/can run them and its nice to have the option

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

For the vast majority of gamers who are not running decent highend hardware the majority of these AMD or Nvidia "special effects" or "features" just are not playable to a decent degree anyway due to the performance hit,so I would argue that plenty of PC gamers probably switch them off anyway. They primarily exist to make an excuse for companies to push people to higher end cards IMHO.

OTH,some of these effects seem to be in the console versions,but implemented differently and more efficiently and probably not as shinily,so it wouldn't surprise me more console owners actually get to experience them in the games they play,especially with consoles increasingly being considered the lead platforms for many games,ie,the cash cow.

 

[fs123]

Quite an assumption that because people aren't hating on GameWorks that they're running Nvidia cards...

Also, Mantle didn't hurt Nvidia because Nvidia COULDN'T run Mantle. If you don't run GameWorks I don't see how that's hurting anyone either?

The complaint here seems to be that unlike AMD with Mantle, Nvidia allow GameWorks to run on competitors hardware. If Nvidia just didn't allow any of the effects to run on AMD hardware would that stop the complaints because then it's the same as Mantle? Or would we then get the same people complaining that Nvidia had locked AMD out of using the effects (like AMD did with TressFX in Lichdom)?

You are forgetting that Mantle was due to go open source before it was integrated into Vulkan. However, Nvidia publicly stated it will not to support it.

Also here is an interesting link to a potential opensource Gameworks rival which AMD is supposedly working on.

http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Planning-Open-Source-GameWorks-Competitor-Mantle-Linux

Dare I say it, Nvidia will not support this either, but since Intel and other companies will, it may gain traction especially if it gets incorporated into the consoles too.

 

[humbug]

You are forgetting that Mantle was due to go open source before it was integrated into Vulkan. However, Nvidia publicly stated it will not to support it.

Also here is an interesting link to a potential Gameworks rival tech which AMD is suppsedly working on.

http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Planning-Open-Source-GameWorks-Competitor-Mantle-Linux

Dare I say it, Nvidia will not support this either, but since Intel and other companies will, it may gain traction especially if it gets incorporated into the consoles too.

(June 19, 2014) i would like to know what is happening with that.

However, AMD do work with developers, Crytek, EA partners.... and others.

They just don't have a name for the tech they are implementing into their engines which they then make a huge fuss over in the press.

They should, Marketing

 

[Martini1991]

You are forgetting that Mantle was due to go open source before it was integrated into Vulkan. However, Nvidia publicly stated it will not to support it.

Also here is an interesting link to a potential opensource Gameworks rival which AMD is supposedly working on.

http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Planning-Open-Source-GameWorks-Competitor-Mantle-Linux

Dare I say it, Nvidia will not support this either, but since Intel and other companies will, it may gain traction especially if it gets incorporated into the consoles too.

Talk is cheap. I have absolutely no belief that Mantle was ever going opensource.

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

(June 19, 2014) i would like to know what is happening with that.

However, AMD do work with developers, Crytek, EA partners.... and others.

They just don't have a name for the tech they are implementing into their engines which they then make a huge fuss over in the press.

They should, Marketing

To be fair AMD and their fans probably make more of a fuss over Nvidia tech than Nvidia do...

 

[fs123]

(June 19, 2014) i would like to know what is happening with that.

However, AMD do work with developers, Crytek, EA partners.... and others.

They just don't have a name for the tech they are implementing into their engines which they then make a huge fuss over in the press.

They should, Marketing

It's an old article but some of the tech such as freesync mentioned in there has come out so hopefully they will follow through with this openworks too.

Ideally someone like Microsoft should have included a lot of the Gameworks equivalent tech such as Hairworks, Physx into DX12..Would solve all the problems.

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

It's an old article but some of the tech such as freesync mentioned in there has come out so hopefully they will follow through with this openworks too.
If Gameworks was open like this AMD proposal then I guess we wouldn't need all this rival techonology and gaming would move forward significantly.

Or without competing products it would stall and become stale.

 

[Martini1991]

It's an old article but some of the tech such as freesync mentioned in there has come out so hopefully they will follow through with this openworks too.

Ideally someone like Microsoft should have included a lot of the Gameworks equivalent tech such as Hairworks, Physx into DX12..Would solve all the problems.

How so?

 

[humbug]

It's an old article but some of the tech such as freesync mentioned in there has come out so hopefully they will follow through with this openworks too.
If Gameworks was open like this AMD proposal then I guess we wouldn't need all this rival techonology and gaming would move forward significantly.

It is moving forward and AMD are a part of that, quietly. <Which is half the problem.

 

[fs123]

Talk is cheap. I have absolutely no belief that Mantle was ever going opensource.

AMD handed Mantle over to Khronos group so it essentially it is open source now. Nvidia or anyone else can see how Mantle worked.

How so?

If devs had libraries to do hair, physx simulation,etc directly from DX12 calls, then any DX12 cards would run them without properietry cr*p.. All the accusations would end.

 

[Martini1991]

AMD handed Mantle over to Khronos group so it essentially it is open source now. Nvidia or anyone else can see how Mantle worked.

Goalposts = Moved.
Vulkan won't really be Mantle. No doubt Mantle would be a better performer, being specifically aimed at GCN.

 

[Martini1991]

If devs had libraries to do hair, physx simulation,etc directly from DX12 calls, then any DX12 cards would run them without properietry cr*p.. All the accusations would end.

DirectX12 is proprietary.
There's more flaws with your statement, but I don't like to pretend I know more than I do.

 

[fs123]

Goalposts = Moved.
Vulkan won't really be Mantle. No doubt Mantle would be a better performer, being specifically aimed at GCN.

The goalposts were moved because Nvidia did not want to support it and no API would succeed without complete support from everyone. Vulkan is supported by every GPU manufacturer so everyones happy.

 

[Martini1991]

The goalposts were moved because Nvidia did not want to support it and no API would succeed without complete support from everyone. Vulkan is supported by every GPU manufacturer so everyones happy.

Agh, the "Nvidia refused to support it" argument. It was an architecture (Well, we'll say "designed to a specification") specific API, they couldn't just "support it" willy nilly (Just like you know, the 6XXX couldn't, and why a difference in GCN architectures in performance differences etc) And AMD weren't letting vendors look at it. Also, given how we've seen with the Fury X, it wasn't really a fully viable API to be dynamically supported (Like say DirectX)

Vulkan's just new OpenGL (Effectively, lets ignore the semantics). An existing competitor to DirectX, which has gone nowhere for years, and is likely going to do so still.

 

[humbug]

It is now, i think thats the point fs123 is making

 

[mmj_uk]

Intel wanted a look at Mantle and AMD told them not while it's still in BETA which it was kept in perpetually, so what chance did NVidia have of supporting it even if they had wanted to?

AMD wanted Mantle for themselves, giving it to the Khronos group was pretty much all they could do to save face once it had failed.

 

[humbug]

Intel wanted a look at Mantle and AMD told them not while it's still in BETA which it was kept in perpetually, so what chance did NVidia have of supporting it even if they had wanted to?

AMD wanted Mantle for themselves, giving it to the Khronos group was pretty much all they could do to save face once it had failed.

Nvidia Finally Officially Speaks About AMD’s Mantle – Will Not Support It, No Real Benefit Using It

Yet they are now thats its under another name.

 

[Martini1991]

Nvidia Finally Officially Speaks About AMD’s Mantle – Will Not Support It, No Real Benefit Using It

Yet they are now thats its under another name.

It is not just under another name. Vulkan may very well be derived from Mantle, but they certainly won't be the same.

Also, didn't Nvidia go ahead and get rid of a lot of overhead in their DX11 drivers, therefore improving performance across far far far more games than Mantle ever got to? I know what I'd prefer.

They then mentioned DX12 coming out. Which everyone and their dog knew was going to be the standard. No game would be Mantle only.

Nvidia not supporting Mantle made complete sense. They couldn't just "support it" anyway.

 

[fs123]

DirectX12 is proprietary.
There's more flaws with your statement, but I don't like to pretend I know more than I do.

I'm sure all gpu manufacturers develop their cards to support various DX features at a hardware level and work with MS closely. DX may not be open source but hardware manufacturers know how it works at a low level.