Nvidia Gameworks at Gamescom 2015

[Martini1991]

As i have said there are no tessellation profiles, so the tessellation is 64 regardless, so its not cheating unless its having an effect which it is not.

So we will agree to disagree.

Sorry, I didn't understand what you said (Because reading your posts is silly hard for whatever reason)

Where is the proof that to date AMD have not created a tessellation profile for any game? Surely that's how Witcher 3's hairworks performance improved over one driver to another etc, as they've created a profile?

 

[Insanties_birth]

Whilst GameWorks hasn't been without its issues, I for one applaud Nvidia for driving forward with these sweet looking effects. Sure it comes at a performance hit but that is to be expected. After playing some of the bigger titles like AC:U and TW3, I am massively impressed with how these games looked and played.

Keep it up Nvidia

I like that they're going for it but hope they get better at it tbh. The hair works on Witcher 3 was mostly disappointing. The big wolf thing looks like it shampoo'd it's hair 1000x to get a super silky smooth sheen and I've heard others comment that Gerald / Geralt looks better without it too.

Still it's nice they do this and I like that they are progressing stuff, I only ever hear rumours of it being damaging to other vendors and I'm a little uneducated on that bit so simply hope it's not the case. If it is then it's pretty negative, if not then it's harming nobody but we can only hope they get better at it still. Don't know why people are acting like this is a rally call to support Nvidia though, it's at the point where we know they love proprietary and aggressive strategies and know they are the market leader so don't need any more support anyway :?

 

[Trevonn]

Far Cry 4: Hairworks looks out of place and weird
Lords of the Fallen: Crashes if turbulence is enabled
Batman Arkham Knight: Crashes if the interactive options are enabled
The Witcher 3: Hairworks works fine but the performance hit isn't justified.

As an NVIDIA user it's hard to get excited about Gameworks when a lot of the current implementations are buggy or don't perform well. So you end up turning it off anyway

 

[Gregster]

I like that they're going for it but hope they get better at it tbh. The hair works on Witcher 3 was mostly disappointing. The big wolf thing looks like it shampoo'd it's hair 1000x to get a super silky smooth sheen and I've heard others comment that Gerald / Geralt looks better without it too.

Still it's nice they do this and I like that they are progressing stuff, I only ever hear rumours of it being damaging to other vendors and I'm a little uneducated on that bit so simply hope it's not the case. If it is then it's pretty negative, if not then it's harming nobody but we can only hope they get better at it still. Don't know why people are acting like this is a rally call to support Nvidia though, it's at the point where we know they love proprietary and aggressive strategies and know they are the market leader so don't need any more support anyway :?

Good post and fair comments.

They will get better and devs will get better as well and time will tell, as will DX12. I was a big fan of TressFX and how that looked in TR (doesn't work for me in Lichdom as it is disabled on Nvidia hardware) and would like to see some hotty with Lara style hair

 

[Boomstick777]

As an NVIDIA user it's hard to get excited about Gameworks when a lot of the current implementations are buggy or don't perform well. So you end up turning it off anyway

Agreed, I liked Physx in Borderlands, apart from that Nvidia haven't really added anything that decent to games imho.

Don't mind gimping with Gameworks, anything that AMD or Nvidia can offer as an extra incentive is fine with me. Just wish it amounted to something more than different hair (Tress FX / Hairworks) or weird smoke effects (Assassins creed / Batman).

Hopefully Gameworks will keep evolving to add something really worthy to games without such a performance hit.

 

[bloodkil]

I've said it before and i'll say it again, GameWorks isn't the reason why some games run so poorly, that's just down to poor optimization and implementation by the developers. Maybe Nvidia should pick their partners more wisely?

And as Greg just said, DX12 should bring improvements which make poorly optimized games a thing of the past (we hope).

 

[nashathedog]

Far Cry 4: Hairworks looks out of place and weird
Lords of the Fallen: Crashes if turbulence is enabled
Batman Arkham Knight: Crashes if the interactive options are enabled
The Witcher 3: Hairworks works fine but the performance hit isn't justified.

As an NVIDIA user it's hard to get excited about Gameworks when a lot of the current implementations are buggy or don't perform well. So you end up turning it off anyway

That's the real problem, When Far cry 4 came out I expected to run it moderately okay and even with several things off I was getting averages in the 20's and having to turn even more things down or off.
It seems that the big killer for everyone is the overuse of tessellation and like I've said before once AMD cards can match Nvidia cards for tess performance hopefully there won't be an excuse to over do it and then we'll be able to get the results for less of a performance hit.

 

[Final8y]

Agreed, I liked Physx in Borderlands, apart from that Nvidia haven't really added anything that decent to games imho.

Don't mind gimping with Gameworks, anything that AMD or Nvidia can offer as an extra incentive is fine with me. Just wish it amounted to something more than different hair (Tress FX / Hairworks) or weird smoke effects (Assassins creed / Batman).

Hopefully Gameworks will keep evolving to add something really worthy to games without such a performance hit.

The only thing with Physx that impressed me was the Physx in Cellfactor, it was new and fresh and game changing , now its not doing anything that can not be done by other means.

 

[Bazzards]

Bring it on Nvidia the more advanced effects the better.

 

[D.P.]

I've said it before and i'll say it again, GameWorks isn't the reason why some games run so poorly, that's just down to poor optimization and implementation by the developers. Maybe Nvidia should pick their partners more wisely?

And as Greg just said, DX12 should bring improvements which make poorly optimized games a thing of the past (we hope).

The problem is that Nvidia will enter a contract with a game developer where they will work with the developer to supply the decided features a long time before the game is close to retail. If it later turns out the game is poop there is not much Nvidia can do about that because they are under contract.

Nvidia is not responsible for QA of other peoples games. Game developers want effects they don't have the resources to do them selves so they implement Gamesworks or other middle-ware. Nvidia may not even have anything to do with the game-works features. If the game developer requests help in implementation then Nvidia will send some engineering reources to help them.

 

[D.P.]

The only thing with Physx that impressed me was the Physx in Cellfactor, it was new and fresh and game changing , now its not doing anything that can not be done by other means.

No one claims physc can do things that other physics engines can't do. Its just another middleware option, albeit with a good implementation on Nvidia GPUs.

 

[Gerard]

The usual suspect (mmj) going on about "Tessellation cheats", if it was a "cheat" it would be something hidden in the driver that the user had no knowledge of, last i checked its a control panel option.

Also there was a poll on the nvidia forums discussing a tessellation slider option as well, if that were to come to fruition im sure your rhetoric would instantly change. Talk about yet again retreading old ground, christ this place never changes. Same tired arguments and rhetoric over and over.

 

[D.P.]

That's the real problem, When Far cry 4 came out I expected to run it moderately okay and even with several things off I was getting averages in the 20's and having to turn even more things down or off.
It seems that the big killer for everyone is the overuse of tessellation and like I've said before once AMD cards can match Nvidia cards for tess performance hopefully there won't be an excuse to over do it and then we'll be able to get the results for less of a performance hit.

The high use of tessellation in games is unlikely to do with nvidia directly.
Most game developers use Nvidia cards for development (bigger market share, better drivers, better developer support) so when creating the engine they will find a tessellation factor that works well for their development machines.
That will be a healthy setting for Nvidia GPUs but not AMD.

The issue is the game wont get sufficient time for optimization and tuning on different hardware to mitigate the AMD sub-par tessellation performance.


Far Cry showed a really big jump in performance with the new Fiji cards largely due to improved tessellation. You see the same in the Witcher 3 when hair-works is switched on.

 

[Final8y]

No one claims physc can do things that other physics engines can't do. Its just another middleware option, albeit with a good implementation on Nvidia GPUs.

The point is it was a head of anything else in Cellfactor.
And good implementation on Nvidia GPUs is a matter of opinion, including the effects themselves and and the resources needed.

So i will agree to disagree.

 

[Trevonn]

The high use of tessellation in games is unlikely to do with nvidia directly.
Most game developers use Nvidia cards for development (bigger market share, better drivers, better developer support) so when creating the engine they will find a tessellation factor that works well for their development machines.
That will be a healthy setting for Nvidia GPUs but not AMD.

When has 64x Tessellation ever shown to be a noticeable improvement in graphical quality?

 

[LambChop]

Amazing again from nvidia. Others follow.

 

[humbug]

No one claims physc can do things that other physics engines can't do. Its just another middleware option, albeit with a good implementation on Nvidia GPUs.

Some of Nvidia's Game Works and PhysX libraries don't run on AMD, for no other reason than Nvidia don't want them too.
Now you could argue Nvidia have that right as its their libraries and you would be right.
My argument is if Developers had used freely available Physics engines then they can do the same thing for everyone, even you admit you don't need Nvidia or any of their tools to do any of this, everything in that video has been done before, its old news, its so common now its all over the place.... Google Blender and Bullet Physics, Youtube is flooded with amiture developers doing exactly what Nvidia PR as miracle work packaged up as "Games works"

Anyway. here is some real-time Physics, its the same sort of thing that Nvidia calls Hair Works, or Grass Works they are the same thing BTW.....
I have probably about 50 times as many physics instances going on here than what is pasted on what's his face's head in witcher 3 and yet the performance of it is good. (maybe i should teach them how its done properly?)

It reacts to Touch and Wind, Hair Works only reacts to wind.

See it react to objects rolling over it, reacting to gun fire and reacting to pressure waves from the Tank Gun, notice also the cylinder moves depending on where the shot impact is?


On this one i have Real Time Global Illumination, Real Time Reflection, Fluid Physics and Rigid Body Physics.

The balls have mass, react to gun fire and each other
The water has volume and carries Physics objects, objects react in the water as expected with mavity, mass and resistance.
Same for the rope holding the Balls physics is calculated to mass and resistance, you can even shoot the rope and split it so to release the object its suspending.

On the Pool Table balls react to the surface, the balls react to where they are shot, shoot them at the bottom they move forwards but spin backwards, eventually the friction from the surface causes them to move the way they are spinning.


i don't have a studio and millions to throw at it, i'm not even a professional developer, i'm just *****'ing about


I like to call it Hum-Works

 

[layte]

As i have said there are no tessellation profiles, so the tessellation is 64 regardless, so its not cheating unless its having an effect which it is not.

So we will agree to disagree.

http://www.techpowerup.com/138742/amd-catalyst-11-1a-hotfix-update-driver-leaked.html?cp=2

The long term goal for the “AMD Optimized” setting is to use the Catalyst Application Profile mechanism to control the AMD recommended level of tessellation on a per application basis. AMD’s intention is to set the tessellation level such that we will not be reducing image quality in any way that would negatively impact the gaming experience.

 

[Final8y]

http://www.techpowerup.com/138742/amd-catalyst-11-1a-hotfix-update-driver-leaked.html?cp=2

Yes that's old news, but they have not done so, so users are manually setting levels without any visual loss which is what counts, hence why NV users are asking for it..

 

[bru]

I've said it before and i'll say it again, GameWorks isn't the reason why some games run so poorly, that's just down to poor optimization and implementation by the developers. Maybe Nvidia should pick their partners more wisely?

Exactly this, people keep blaming NVidia for the Gameworks implementation in certain games, it would be like blaming Crytek for the fact that humbugs demos are not up to AAA title standard.(no offence humbug) The tools can do the job it is down to how the developer implements them.