Nvidia Gameworks at Gamescom 2015

[humbug]

lol having access to NVIDIA's libraries isn't as big a deal as AMD want you to think it is. Not even the developers have access to this depending on the licencing agreement. It's AMD's pipeline that lets it down when it comes to hardware tessellation. This isn't exactly not well known.

What some 'fanboys' need to realise is that using too little tessellation is probably more detrimental than using more. Sometimes there isn't enough tess factoring available within DX11 to represent the displacement you want on a particular object, just as much as sometimes overuse can be wasteful.

The thing about tessellation also, is that it's entirely down to the developer still where and how it is applied. Even with GameWorks. Take static objects and geometry, it's not NVIDA who are applying tessellation to any particular mesh, this is the developers. There is so much misinformation surrounding GameWorks, and frankly it's only due to the fact that AMD are making such a big deal about it.

Not giving access to source is NOT something new or exclusive to this particular case. This is common practice, and quite frankly insinuating that a company should do this is tyrannical. But they (AMD) are the good guys in all this...apparently.

The only misinformation around here is in that ^^^^ post.

And the only people who ever throw the Fanbois word around here are Nvidia Fanbois, no really. it only ever gets used by the Nvidia defensive. Indicative of Nvidia users maturity? i hope not.

 

[Gregster]

There is always an option to turn off GameWorks and AMDMatt has said many times "turn off GameWorks features to get a playable game" on AMD hardware. It is an option (that I like and always have on) and if your hardware can't handle it, switch it off..... No biggie.

 

[Silent_Scone]

The only misinformation around here is in that ^^^^ post.

And the only people who ever throw the Fanbois word around here are Nvidia Fanbois, no really. it only ever gets used by the Nvidia defensive. Indicative of Nvidia users maturity? i hope not.

Sure thing Humbug, what parts misinformative about it? None of it I believe, because it's all actually quite true. Feel free to come back when you can say otherwise. Try to keep things clean please and above the belt. Especially if you're going to mention maturity.

 

[humbug]

Sure thing Humbug, what parts misinformative about it? None of it I believe, because it's all actually quite true. Feel free to come back when you can say otherwise. Try to keep things clean please and above the belt. Especially if you're going to mention maturity.

I'm not getting into "yes it is" "no it isn't" roundabouts with anyone. i'm not 12

 

[Silent_Scone]

There isn't a smiley that accurately portrays just how painful you are sometimes. Carry on.

 

[fs123]

lol having access to NVIDIA's libraries isn't as big a deal as AMD want you to think it is. Not even the developers have access to this depending on the licencing agreement. It's AMD's pipeline that lets it down when it comes to hardware tessellation. This isn't exactly not well known.

What some 'fanboys' need to realise is that using too little tessellation is probably more detrimental than using more. Sometimes there isn't enough tess factoring available within DX11 to represent the displacement you want on a particular object, just as much as sometimes overuse can be wasteful.

The thing about tessellation also, is that it's entirely down to the developer still where and how it is applied. Even with GameWorks. Take static objects and geometry, it's not NVIDA who are applying tessellation to any particular mesh, this is the developers. There is so much misinformation surrounding GameWorks, and frankly it's only due to the fact that AMD are making such a big deal about it.

Not giving access to source is NOT something new or exclusive to this particular case. This is common practice, and quite frankly insinuating that a company should do this is tyrannical. But they (AMD) are the good guys in all this...apparently.

I guess the company who's cards suffer performance due to Gameworks knows nothing but a random poster on a messageboard knows how driver programming works.

If it was a non-issue like you say then AMD would be better served by keeping quite instead of spreading the news that their cards perform badly due to Gameworks. If you were not good at something it would not make sense to keep bringing the issue up on news sites, interviews, etc.

The fact is that AMD obviously knows that the closed source code is the main reason why they can't optimise their drivers like the could if they had access to how Gameworks code works at a hardware level.
Since Stream processors are architecturally different to the Nvidia CUDA cores the method of performing Gameworks processing will be different.

 

[Silent_Scone]

I guess the company who's cards suffer performance due to Gameworks knows nothing but a random poster on a messageboard knows how driver programming works.

If it was a non-issue like you say then AMD would be better served by keeping quite instead of spreading the news that their cards perform badly due to Gameworks. If you were not good at something it would not make sense to keep bringing the issue up on news sites, interviews, etc.

The fact is that AMD obviously knows that the closed source code is the main reason why they can't optimise their drivers like the could if they had access to how Gameworks code works at a hardware level.
Since Stream processors are architecturally different to the Nvidia CUDA cores the method of performing Gameworks processing will be different.

AMD's performance has suffered with tessellation for years, this isn't anything new or a direct result of GameWorks, yet it is the constant vocal point from AMD representatives when they scrutinise it. That's because there isn't a shred of evidence that suggests GW as a programme in itself is damaging. Besides which these are non game critical effects. If you don't want to use them, turn them off. All AMD are doing is throwing accusations around that NVIDIA are deliberately over-tessellating in order to gain a performance edge. Which is quite puzzling considering they don't need any anti competitive edge anyway, especially when it comes to tessellation performance. Optimisation for tessellation DOESN'T require access to NVIDIA's libraries, this can be optimised through middleware just like tessellation in any game can be. They're flogging you half truths to gain their argument traction.

Read the statement from Tim Sweeney if you want a developers take on the matter.

Also:

The fact is that AMD obviously knows that the closed source code is the main reason why they can't optimise their drivers like the could if they had access to how Gameworks code works at a hardware level.

This statement whilst not entirely false, is something AMD want you to believe. You do not need access to source code in order to optimise drivers, and quite often developers do not even give vendors access to source code. This ISN'T anything new and any developer would tell you this when it comes to optimising for vendors hardware. Having access to source code isn't mission critical - it's just preferable.

 

[mmj_uk]

If it was a non-issue like you say then AMD would be better served by keeping quite instead of spreading the news that their cards perform badly due to Gameworks. If you were not good at something it would not make sense to keep bringing the issue up on news sites, interviews, etc.

Not really, they have to paint GameWorks as something bad to excuse the fact that they don't do anything like it themselves, you only have to read this forum to see how easily people swallow it.

Even ATi had GITG and had engineers dotted around the world to assist developers get the most out of ATi GPU's, there's an article I've posted numerous times with Huddy talking about how beneficial such a programme is to its customers.

AMD don't do any of that so to avoid people getting wise and asking why they are so lazy, it's easier to just throw mud and claim that such programmes are bad for gamers and best of all it gives them justification for doing nothing.

 

[humbug]

Over Tessellation cripples the performance of Nvidia and AMD, its not just about AMD, its about everyone who plays PC Games.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Actually I'm pretty sure it's about selling more GPUs which applies equally to both parties. So much negative press about a programme that gives PC gamers additional effects that would otherwise get cut because we represent 5-10% of a market. Such a programme costs multi millions, something AMD can't compete with right now - so let's moan about it instead. That might seem slightly unfledged to say, but it's what is happening

 

[oldestgregg]

There is always an option to turn off GameWorks and AMDMatt has said many times "turn off GameWorks features to get a playable game" on AMD hardware. It is an option (that I like and always have on) and if your hardware can't handle it, switch it off..... No biggie.

Theres often a use of the term "badly optimised" when its really "my machine cant handle this". People cry about games when they are easy to run,console ports and yet when cutting edge games come out with cutting edge effects they complain its badly optimised.

Nvidia have 75% of the market share so why would they need to "cripple" other vendors hardware? They dont care about AMD nor need to at this point and are looking out for number one...quite literally.

As Greg and Matt have said,if you dont like it...turn it off

 

[Gregster]

Yer Greggg - Nvidia are at a point they are catering for the majority of the GPU market and a few snidey remarks are not going to stop them striving forward.

 

[LambChop]

Not really, they have to paint GameWorks as something bad to excuse the fact that they don't do anything like it themselves, you only have to read this forum to see how easily people swallow it.

Even ATi had GITG and had engineers dotted around the world to assist developers get the most out of ATi GPU's, there's an article I've posted numerous times with Huddy talking about how beneficial such a programme is to its customers.

AMD don't do any of that so to avoid people getting wise and asking why they are so lazy, it's easier to just throw mud and claim that such programmes are bad for gamers and best of all it gives them justification for doing nothing.

Great post.

 

[fs123]

Great post.

I see all the Nvidia shills are here having a fantastic time patting each other on the back...

Great post indeed. ..which has no basis at all except a biased opinion from a well known, extreme Nvidia shill who seems to appear in any thread bashing AMD...

 

[JediFragger]

I see all the Nvidia shills are here having a fantastic time patting each other on the back...

I think some sucking is involved too

 

[Silent_Scone]

I see all the Nvidia shills are here having a fantastic time patting each other on the back...

Great post indeed. ..which has no basis at all except a biased opinion from a well known, extreme Nvidia shill who seems to appear in any thread bashing AMD...

No disrespect, but the bashing is generated by individuals swallowing information without knowing what they are talking about.

 

[oldestgregg]

No disrespect

Nah Silent there should be some. Hopefully he is self aware enough to see calling people Nvidia shills makes you a...well,an AMD shill really. If you dont like gameworks dont read about it and turn it off. No one is forcing you

 

[fs123]

Nah Silent there should be some. Hopefully he is self aware enough to see calling people Nvidia shills makes you a...well,an AMD shill really. If you dont like gameworks dont read about it and turn it off. No one is forcing you

I'm no AMD shill and don't care about respect/disrespect on a forum. All I see is some sad individuals who make it their sole purpose in life to defend Nvidia and try to always discredit their competitor for some obscure reason.
Why? I don't know, but what they fail to see is that if we only have one GPU manufacturer we will all be at the mercy of price hikes, gimping of older hardware, etc. I have no desire for the gpu market to end up like this and don't like it when shills/fanboys spread misinformation to put people of a competitor that is already weak.

Buy what gpu you want but don't spread Bull** to suck off you chosen company ..

 

[Silent_Scone]

Think you're getting it slightly mixed up who's discrediting who.

When push comes to shove, the industry doesn't need GameWorks to put the Fury X behind GM200. Being a realist is an entirely different perspective than having obscure reasoning. Let it all out though lol

 

[fs123]

Think you're getting it slightly mixed up who's discrediting who.

When push comes to shove, the industry doesn't need GameWorks to put the Fury X behind GM200. Being a realist is an entirely different perspective than having obscure reasoning. Let it all out though lol

I know you are adamant AMD is discrediting Nvidia but I was referring to people on here who generally try to discredit AMD such as they are cheating in drivers, overheat, bad drivers, etc...