NVIDIA GeForce GTX 880 and GTX 870 to Launch This Q4

Boomstick777 · 19 Jun 2014 at 13:22

opethdisciple said:
I would expect Nvidia to time some sort of big release around Feb 2015 when the witcher 3 is out.

Yeah, probably come in the form of a 'Titan' branded card though. The first proper high end 20nm card.

28nm Maxwell GM204 Q4 2014 (GTX870 /GTX880)

20nm Maxwell GM210 Q1 2015 (Titan)

20nm Maxwell GM204 Q1/Q2 2015 (GTX 850Ti / 860)

20nm Maxwell GM210 Q3 2015 (GTX880 Ti)

There could be some filler cards in between, die shrunk GM204 GTX 870/880 refresh etc maybe under 'Ghz' name or something.

1kiwi · 19 Jun 2014 at 13:48

Boomstick777 said:
Yeah, probably come in the form of a 'Titan' branded card though. The first proper high end 20nm card.

28nm Maxwell GM204 Q4 2014 (GTX870 /GTX880)

20nm Maxwell GM210 Q1 2015 (Titan)

20nm Maxwell GM204 Q1/Q2 2015 (GTX 850Ti / 860)

20nm Maxwell GM210 Q3 2015 (GTX880 Ti)

There could be some filler cards in between, die shrunk GM204 GTX 870/880 refresh etc maybe under 'Ghz' name or something.

This is sad but true.

Marine-RX179 · 19 Jun 2014 at 14:15

1kiwi said:
This is sad but true.

Yea think Nvidia that formula for milking with GK104 and GK110.

Boomstick777's speculate of Nvidia's order of releases would probably be spot-on...except that I think his prediction on the time-gap between each release/release time is a bit over-optimistic...push back the Titan release by at least another quarter, and then 20nm Maxwell GM204 and 20nm Maxwell GM210 by two quarter would sound about right...

28nm Maxwell GM204 Q4 2014 (GTX870 /GTX880)

20nm Maxwell GM210 Q2 2015 (Titan)

20nm Maxwell GM204 Q2-Q3 2015 (GTX 850Ti / 860)

20nm Maxwell GM210 Q1 2016 (GTX880 Ti)

Flying_Hellfish · 19 Jun 2014 at 14:54

1kiwi said:
Should be a nice upgrade for those of us on 780's and below.

No

stuie said:
will be keeping my 670s for a while then

Yes

Boomstick777 said:
Still on 28nm...

To much milking has already taken place.

Much disappoint...

Very.

So underwhelmed by this. I wonder if the 20nm part will be released as 880GTX/TITAN/ULTRA or as 980GTX?

Edit: Boom beat me to it..

Boomstick777 said:
Yeah, probably come in the form of a 'Titan' branded card though. The first proper high end 20nm card.

28nm Maxwell GM204 Q4 2014 (GTX870 /GTX880)

20nm Maxwell GM210 Q1 2015 (Titan)

20nm Maxwell GM204 Q1/Q2 2015 (GTX 850Ti / 860)

20nm Maxwell GM210 Q3 2015 (GTX880 Ti)

There could be some filler cards in between, die shrunk GM204 GTX 870/880 refresh etc maybe under 'Ghz' name or something.

1kiwi · 19 Jun 2014 at 15:02

Even if it's 10% faster than the Ti then it's going to be an upgrade for anyone not on a Ti given the differential between the Ti's and whatever they are upgrading for. Ofcause what is defined as 'decent' is subjective

I only play BF4 at present so I'll use that as an example - at the resolution I intend on playing at once the Asus ROG monitor comes out.

In BF4 @ 2560x1440 there is a 32% difference between the 780Ti and 780. Let's say that the 28nm Maxwell GM204 GTX880 is 10% quicker than the 780Ti - then that's a 45% increase. Whether that's worth the difference between what I can get for my card and the 880 is a different question. I'm planning to upgrade to a higher resolution monitor this year so I'm hopeful that the 880 is not a complete failure.

According to the image below Fishboxen, that's 42% faster than your SLI setup.

Source:

Kaapstad · 19 Jun 2014 at 15:19

_Alatar_ said:
They're likely going to be faster than the GK110 cards though.

Even if the main resolutions they'd be targeting would be 1080p and 1440p.

At 28nm they would be struggling, you can only pack so many transistors in there before heat becomes a problem and the 780ti must be getting close now.

And as for that 256bit bus....

GK110 cards are letting themselves down now with a 384bit bus at higher resolutions.

I think these cards will be struggling to compete on price or performance against loads of very cheap 290Ps that will be available.

I think people if they want a next gen NVidia card will be better off waiting for 20nm and the full fat cards.

Flying_Hellfish · 19 Jun 2014 at 15:40

I am also hopeful that the 880 will be great, however 256-bit scream mid-range and similar tactics to the 6/7 series.

Whilst 42% seems like a nice increase @ 1440p (which I do game at BTW), I think we were all hoping for the real leap forward with a new process that happens every few years. I didn't plump for a 7-series (or two) specifically because I 'knew' the new generation was around the corner.

However, it looks like we must now wait again.

1kiwi · 19 Jun 2014 at 15:46

Flying_Hellfish said:
I am also hopeful that the 880 will be great, however 256-bit scream mid-range and similar tactics to the 6/7 series.

Whilst 42% seems like a nice increase @ 1440p (which I do game at BTW), I think we were all hoping for the real leap forward with a new process that happens every few years. I didn't plump for a 7-series (or two) specifically because I 'knew' the new generation was around the corner.

However, it looks like we must now wait again.

Those days are gone I'm afriad. Boomstick777 is spot on - Nvidia has proven that they can milk a single generation by coming out with crazy cards to justify a new price point.

The only way I can see the status quo changing is for AMD to force their hand which they seem to have been slow off the mark in recent times. I can still remember buying the 680 - it was cool, quiet, and performed really well. Nvidia at the time didn't need to bring out full Kepler.

oweneades · 19 Jun 2014 at 15:47

1kiwi said:
Even if it's 10% faster than the Ti then it's going to be an upgrade for anyone not on a Ti given the differential between the Ti's and whatever they are upgrading for. Ofcause what is defined as 'decent' is subjective I only play BF4 at present so I'll use that as an example - at the resolution I intend on playing at once the Asus ROG monitor comes out.

In BF4 @ 2560x1440 there is a 32% difference between the 780Ti and 780. Let's say that the 28nm Maxwell GM204 GTX880 is 10% quicker than the 780Ti - then that's a 45% increase. Whether that's worth the difference between what I can get for my card and the 880 is a different question. I'm planning to upgrade to a higher resolution monitor this year so I'm hopeful that the 880 is not a complete failure.

Source:

The 32% increase is based on the Matrix Platinum numbers not a reference 780TI. The "stock" 780TI is only ~15% quicker than a "stock" 780 (64-56 FPS).

drunkenmaster · 19 Jun 2014 at 15:51

I'd tweak it to more like this

Boomstick777 said:
28nm Maxwell GM204 Q4 2014 (GTX870 /GTX880)

20nm Maxwell GM210 Q2/3 2015 (Titan)

20nm Maxwell GM210 Q2/3 2015 (GTX880 Ti)(it's a Titan core, it will just be held back 6+months, but timeline of manufacturing this should be here

20nm Maxwell GM204 Q3/Q4 2015 (GTX 870/880, or a gtx965ti boost mega super uber evga black 28gb) + 15% clocks or something

It's highly likely that GM204 is effectively a 20nm part but being made bigger at 28nm until it can be shrunk. IE it's a circa 300mm^2 20nm part, but it will be a 550mm^2 or so 28nm part till the shrink.

Difficult to say if they'll rebrand it or do it sensibly. IE a 285gtx, or release it like a new part, even then they could call it high end or midrange, who knows.

You can almost always gain some efficiency over 2-3 years so even at the same die size it should be faster, not least if it has a smaller memory bus and takes less die size it will have more raw power(or they might make it smaller, depends on the shrink I guess, could be 300mm^2 @ 20nm and 580mm^2 @ 28, or because it has to fit both nodes it might be smaller).

The one trouble they'll have is the bus, it could be faster than a Gk110 in some circumstances, and significantly slower in others. 1080p/ultra settings, it might be say 10-20% faster, but at 4k it might be 30% slower despite having more actual power.

It's not surprising, a midrange card won't be aimed at solid 4k performance for another couple generations. People usually underestimate how much of the power usage is down to accessing the memory. For 99% of buyers who want solid fps at 1080p(currently) then a 384/512bit bus would be a waste, use more power, cost more die space. Trying to make 4k better on mainstream hardware will likely arrive with HMB on package solutions where the bandwidth/memory cost will be drastically reduced.

1kiwi · 19 Jun 2014 at 15:53

oweneades said:
The 32% increase is based on the Matrix Platinum numbers not a reference 780TI. The "stock" 780TI is only ~15% quicker than a "stock" 780 (64-56 FPS).

Very true, but my point is based on the assumption that the 880 will be 10% quicker than the latest graphics cards, otherwise I would have found a reference review.

Flying_Hellfish · 19 Jun 2014 at 16:16

1kiwi said:
Those days are gone I'm afriad. Boomstick777 is spot on - Nvidia has proven that they can milk a single generation by coming out with crazy cards to justify a new price point.

The only way I can see the status quo changing is for AMD to force their hand which they seem to have been slow off the mark in recent times. I can still remember buying the 680 - it was cool, quiet, and performed really well. Nvidia at the time didn't need to bring out full Kepler.

Yep and it looks like the same thing will occur here if the news is true. As I say, underwhelming and frustrating!

An upgrade is due (and I reckon there will be a few in my situation) but the signs again point to iterative releases with ever-spiraling price points.

Rroff · 19 Jun 2014 at 16:19

"When 20 nm is finally smooth, it wouldn't surprise us if NVIDIA optically shrinks these chips to the new process" << Optical rescale to and from 20nm to 28+nm isn't possible (well not feasibly) due to the changes with the way the lithography is done - there is no simple optical shrink path like there was for G92. Your basically reworking the design all over again hence why a move to 28nm for Maxwell proper would be somewhat an act of desperation for nVidia.

If the GK104 replacement type part using Maxwell is the same specs as the original 20nm design for that part then your looking at somewhere in the region of a 10% speed boost (depending on clockspeeds) over the original Titan which seems kind of pointless with the 780 and 780ti existing.

wunkley · 19 Jun 2014 at 17:19

As someone who splashed out silly money on a pair of 780ti's I'm kind of pleased at this news.

Get to use and enjoy my cards for at the very least another year, without the that horrible upgrade nag.

TwsT · 19 Jun 2014 at 17:34

was going to ask the qwuestions that have already been answered.

I too will be waiting for the GM210 or w/e it will be.

I highly doubt the 880 will smash the 780ti it might get more & faster memory though.

Tonester0011 · 19 Jun 2014 at 17:37

Honestly going back to 256bit bus, with 4k becoming more mainstream. They will need mega fast memory if that's the case.

Digital X · 19 Jun 2014 at 17:42

Going by this I think upgrading to a 780 at Xmas is better than the 880/ti yes?

Kaapstad · 19 Jun 2014 at 21:06

TwsT said:
was going to ask the q5wuestions that have already been answered.

I too will be waiting for the GM210 or w/e it will be.

I highly doubt the 880 will smash the 780ti it might get more & faster memory though.

I suspect these new cards will be about 10 or 15% slower than a 780ti which will leave room at the top for the old GK110 cards untill they are replaced next year.

TheRealDeal · 19 Jun 2014 at 21:12

Kaapstad said:
I suspect these new cards will be about 10 or 15% slower than a 780ti which will leave room at the top for the old GK110 cards untill they are replaced next year.

They won't be slower. You just have to look at the rumoured Spec's to see that they will or should be faster. It's also Maxwell architecture so there should be extra performance over the spec's to add in as well. At 4k and Multi monitor resolutions it could get rather interesting but other than 256 bit bus there's no clue in how high the bandwidth is.

Kaapstad · 19 Jun 2014 at 22:47

TheRealDeal said:
They won't be slower. You just have to look at the rumoured Spec's to see that they will or should be faster. It's also Maxwell architecture so there should be extra performance over the spec's to add in as well. At 4k and Multi monitor resolutions it could get rather interesting but other than 256 bit bus there's no clue in how high the bandwidth is.

You can get a rough idea from the transistor count on what the performance is going to be. For example the 290X has slightly less transistors than a 780ti and this is reflected in the performance. The question is are NVidia going to equip a mid range card with more than 7 billion transistors @28nm and even if they do will the 256bit bus hold it back anyway.

I think these cards will be slower than the 780ti's available now as it will suit NVidia's marketing better.