Nvidia, stop being a **** please

[Gregster]

Freesync is an AMD brand.

 

[james.miller]

Project FreeSync is AMD's hardwre/software solution. It's a brand. Display Port Adaptive Sync is the technology that has been added to DP1.2a, on AMDs recommendation, which project FreeSync interfaces with to deliver real time refresh rate adjustment.

 

[Nexus18]

Was about to type a post but IDCP has pretty much nailed it.

Freesync is just AMD's "branding/marketing" name for adaptive sync.... not the monitor, do you think AMD go to LG, benq etc. and say release a new freesync monitor now please lol..... It is an open standard implemented via the display port/scaler and GPU hardware, if the "monitor" manufacturer can add an extra feature to slap onto their box that doesn't cost them anything, why wouldn't they?

These cheap monitors are not because of AMD nor freesync, if anything, it is great seeing budget monitors with freesync implemented, not everyone wants to pay £300+ for a monitor, if anything it will make the monitors more attractive especially for AMD owners.

Funny thing is, these "cheap" freesync monitors probably have less issues with QC/CS than the high end £500+ ACER/ASUS gsync monitors, failing swifts after a certain time period, backlight bleed galore, dead pixels, flimsy construction (more so for the acer ones) etc.

Like I said earlier though, adaptive/free sync ain't going anywhere, especially when you will have intel supporting it

 

[layte]

Lol, Freesync isn't a brand it's a VESA open standard and as in all open standards you will get a range of products from low to high end that support that standard with higher or lower levels of quality. Saying Freesync is a brand is like saying DirectX is a brand.

Freesync is a registered Trade Mark of AMD. Whilst it may not be a brand per say, the term is used as a catch all when talking about displays using the VESA Adaptive Sync technology

Ah the old AMD hate is starting to shine through. Nvidia also have cheaper branded GPUs and vendors or does that not count?

You stated that given the choice, consumers would opt for the cheaper option that was functionality similar. I pointed out that this has not been the case in the GPU market, where AMD offer hardware that is a match (or more than a match at certain levels) for Nvidia, often at lower pricing, yet consumers on the whole have not opted for it.

The PC monitor market is not at all like the smartphone market so your analogy is flawed. I can freely move my sim from an Android to a Windows phone to an Apple phone without major issues. I am not locked in to only using Apple products until I get a new sim with a new number etc. Right now both G-sync and Freesync will lock people to either Nvidia or AMD but at least the adaptive sync VESA standard could change that.

What if you have made purchases on the respective app stores?


Now, please don't anyone take this as an opening for more pages of stupid discussion. All I am doing is pointing out that the situation regarding VRR displays is certainly not quite as simple as some would hope to believe.

 

[tommybhoy]

It's simply a convenient argument right now, yes you are locked to brand for VRR, yes Nvidia(supposedly) don't have on board hardware support, yes you need to make a choice.

But if Pascal launches and Nvidia decide to maintain zero on board hardware vrr support, then it's Nvidia's choosing not to support open standards, they alone will be keeping it vendor locked.

Hilarious part is, for 99% of vrr market penetration, they do the same thing.

 

[Stanners]

Nexus, Do you know the return rates for the Asus/Acer G-Sync monitors?. I am sure Gibbo has said in the past it is no different to other monitors. A link will do I will have a read.

 

[Nexus18]

Yup gibbo has posted that the return rate for the asus swift is very low, I don't think he has mentioned any other monitors but the problem is.... as has been shown on here and various forums/threads, most people are happy to accept back light bleed and to a lesser extent dead pixels along with coil whine etc.

Yes the ROG swift has sold a lot of monitors world wide so there is more chance for there to be problems posted but given that a vast majority on here and other forums are having to return their monitors or/and buy new power supplies for them because of the same issue isn't just a one of or/and bad batch, likewise for the LG/dell/aoc 34" screens, tons of people posted about backlight bleed and had to go through more than 3 to get a good one. IIRC dicehunter on here had to go through 7 asus swifts to get one that didn't have dead pixels. Where as with the very large threads for the philips 40" 4k, benq 27" freesync, samsung 34" on here and other forums, you read of hardly any issues in comparison.

QC and faulty products aside, the CS is also ****, the turn around time is a joke and their service is a joke i.e. asus replace £500+ monitors that fail within a year with refurbished monitors lol....

Also, given the role of Gibbo's job, I think people should take such claims with a large pinch of salt, he is hardly going to come out and say "yes we are receiving large numbers of RMA's due to said issues", one way to kill sales right there.

EDIT:

Don't even get me started on the acer 27" IPS 144HZ screen... That was even worse than the ultrawide monitors for back light bleed and on top of that, quite a few where having up to 30 dead pixels on their monitors

 

[tommybhoy]

No one needs to produce links, the threads in the monitor section are fraught with KNOWN problems.

Gibbo is never going to say QC is a joke-people searching for compatible power supplies is crazy-wouldn't touch them with a bargepole.

It's a lottery which is a shame as it's a cracker if you get a good one.

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

Yup gibbo has posted that the return rate for the asus swift is very low, I don't think he has mentioned any other monitors but the problem is.... as has been shown on here and various forums/threads, most people are happy to accept back light bleed and to a lesser extent dead pixels along with coil whine etc.

Yes the ROG swift has sold a lot of monitors world wide so there is more chance for there to be problems posted but given that a vast majority on here and other forums are having to return their monitors or/and buy new power supplies for them because of the same issue isn't just a one of or/and bad batch, likewise for the LG/dell/aoc 34" screens, tons of people posted about backlight bleed and had to go through more than 3 to get a good one. IIRC dicehunter on here had to go through 7 asus swifts to get one that didn't have dead pixels. Where as with the very large threads for the philips 40" 4k, benq 27" freesync, samsung 34" on here and other forums, you read of hardly any issues in comparison.

QC and faulty products aside, the CS is also ****, the turn around time is a joke and their service is a joke i.e. asus replace £500+ monitors that fail within a year with refurbished monitors lol....

Also, given the role of Gibbo's job, I think people should take such claims with a large pinch of salt, he is hardly going to come out and say "yes we are receiving large numbers of RMA's due to said issues", one way to kill sales right there.

EDIT:

Don't even get me started on the acer 27" IPS 144HZ screen... That was even worse than the ultrawide monitors for back light bleed and on top of that, quite a few where having up to 30 dead pixels on their monitors

Not quite sure if that's true of the BenQ 27" Freesync screen. Not necessarily backlight bleed, but there have been quite a few people returning them, possibly direct to BenQ rather than through OcUK, which could affect OcUK return statistics for any monitor (or other piece of hardware).

 

[TwsT]

ocuk returns stats obviously do not count for Returns direct to manufacturer. However as a viable sample we can usually tell a problem from our stats.

Everyone has different standards RE monitors so it's a tough call both RJK and Chug bought B grade swift monitors and couldn't find a fault with them yet both were returned because the customer wasn't satisfied with them.

 

[Orangey]

Maybe they didn't realise they were paying almost a grand for TN.

 

[TwsT]

them and nearly 3,000 other people

 

[Insanties_birth]

got to admit, when you can get monitors like this
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/lg-2...g-widescreen-led-monitor-black-mo-138-lg.html

(which was on sale recently for £350) it does seem like the premium for Nvidia products is more a gouging of the naive. I am waiting for the next series of cards to get the die shrink and whatnot but it seems like if I am going for gsynch / freesynch then I'm way better off getting a high / mid end AMD card and a monitor like that. Nvidia wouldn't offer anything close for the money with the same specs by the time you get an AMD card on a good deal and a monitor too then the Nvidia counter part would be way over priced and offer little diffrerence. It's quite sad to see that even when AMD are offerring far better value for money overall they are still getting neglected by the brand obsessed.

Either way I'm sure people will be happy with either choice but I just hope we don't end up with 2016 being the year Nvidia cripples the market with price gouging.

 

[Troezar]

got to admit, when you can get monitors like this
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/lg-2...g-widescreen-led-monitor-black-mo-138-lg.html

(which was on sale recently for £350) it does seem like the premium for Nvidia products is more a gouging of the naive. I am waiting for the next series of cards to get the die shrink and whatnot but it seems like if I am going for gsynch / freesynch then I'm way better off getting a high / mid end AMD card and a monitor like that. Nvidia wouldn't offer anything close for the money with the same specs by the time you get an AMD card on a good deal and a monitor too then the Nvidia counter part would be way over priced and offer little diffrerence. It's quite sad to see that even when AMD are offerring far better value for money overall they are still getting neglected by the brand obsessed.

Either way I'm sure people will be happy with either choice but I just hope we don't end up with 2016 being the year Nvidia cripples the market with price gouging.

Freesynch/Gsynch is a factor now. I fancy trying a Pascal card next time however I also want to get a new 27" 144Hz monitor and I know whichever card I buy I'm locked into one or the other brand. I can take a difference in card prices but having to also pay a premium for a monitor too is off putting.

I must just be tight or three are a lot of people out there with lots of disposable income/will use credit to buy the latest and greatest.

It would be interesting to see what would make more money. Top end cards and monitors sold in volume at £350 apiece or the current lower volume at £450-£650 apiece? I would assume the manufactures are selling at the sweet spot now however LCD TV manufacturers were heavily fined for price fixing a few years ago. Now the prices have dropped every man and his dog have a flashy TV

 

[Insanties_birth]

Freesynch/Gsynch is a factor now. I fancy trying a Pascal card next time however I also want to get a new 27" 144Hz monitor and I know whichever card I buy I'm locked into one or the other brand. I can take a difference in card prices but having to also pay a premium for a monitor too is off putting.

I must just be tight or three are a lot of people out there with lots of disposable income/will use credit to buy the latest and greatest.

It would be interesting to see what would make more money. Top end cards and monitors sold in volume at £350 apiece or the current lower volume at £450-£650 apiece? I would assume the manufactures are selling at the sweet spot now however LCD TV manufacturers were heavily fined for price fixing a few years ago. Now the prices have dropped every man and his dog have a flashy TV

Yeah it's just as simple as that really, I can get Nvidia and slap myself on a 1440p TN panel or get AMD and go for 4k ips. Seems like you get a far better experience when looking at the whole package like that and as you said, some have so much spare money and care about it so little they wouldn't mind throwing it in a blender in front of some starving kids but realistically there's a huge premium on the monitors. I can understand the gpu's on Nvidia being a bit more but it seems like people are really turning a blind eye to the gouging going on with Nvidia products and just using the same excuse of 'well I'm happy to pay it so that's me sorted and who cares about anything else'.

I'm joking a bit there of course but yeah, the prices for a full system with AMD vs Nvidia and the experience you get with each is becoming a huge gap nowadays if you want gsynch / freesynch (which you should since it helps a lot of course). Price fixing is one discussion but it's hard to say either way, it seems like some companies get away with the price / demand excuse and others get called out for price fixing. I don't think we need to worry about that as they still have lots of people willing to throw there money regardless of price.

 

[DarrenM343]

Value is subjective. Comparing something purely on performance and declaring a cheaper product better value is shallow thinking.

I buy Nvidia products for a number of reasons including past experiences with their products.If I wanted a gaming monitor I'd go for a G-sync one as I'd rather tie myself into Nvidia products for the next 5+ years than the competition, and would be happy to pay more for it

Tesco value meals offer good value over premium meals but if I wanted a ready meal I'd not eat or eat one .

 

[Troezar]

Yes to be fair you can't blame Nvidia for taking the money. Apple have become very rich doing just that. It's days much more about society today than anything. That said I expect people to become a lot more cost conscious in the next few years. Look at the massive debt out there. As a country we can't even stop spending more than we earn, our deficit is still there and our national debt is still climbing. Factor in a lot of personal debt, low interest rates, high personal debt, low oil and food prices and a housing bubble I can see something going pop sooner or later...

 

[DarrenM343]

Yes to be fair you can't blame Nvidia for taking the money. Apple have become very rich doing just that. It's days much more about society today than anything. That said I expect people to become a lot more cost conscious in the next few years. Look at the massive debt out there. As a country we can't even stop spending more than we earn, our deficit is still there and our national debt is still climbing. Factor in a lot of personal debt, low interest rates, high personal debt, low oil and food prices and a housing bubble I can see something going pop sooner or later...

Been saying that for years but somehow things continue as they have done . Eventually salaries will catch up ?

Ultimately the companies and the market sets the prices. Nvidia can creep up their prices and if enough people buy at the higher prices for Nvidia to hit their targets then the higher price is really fair value. If the competition can sell similar products at a lower price then it's either because they have to or can do (sounds obvious - but lower R&D costs for example which might also be a negative aspect).
Not sure about branding - I don't see Nvidia as I do Apple? The products are different too in that they're hidden in a machine rather than for all to see.

 

[Insanties_birth]

Value is subjective. Comparing something purely on performance and declaring a cheaper product better value is shallow thinking.

I buy Nvidia products for a number of reasons including past experiences with their products.If I wanted a gaming monitor I'd go for a G-sync one as I'd rather tie myself into Nvidia products for the next 5+ years than the competition, and would be happy to pay more for it

Tesco value meals offer good value over premium meals but if I wanted a ready meal I'd not eat or eat one .

Sure but I've seen a few commentors who've tried freesynch and gysnch and pretty much confirm there's next to no difference. So you call it subjective to pay more for next to no difference as well? That sounds even more shallow as it ignores the context of the comparison we're actually making and just aims to be a blanket statement. Arguably lower price doesn't always equate to better value, in this case where I am getting similar performance (from freesynch) and then get better specs (4k / ips / 144hz etc.) the cheaper side IS better quality as you end up with a better monitor for the same price too so that negates your argument. Say for example I am in the market for a Nvidia card, can you point me to a monitor and a gpu that will be 'equal value' in your mind then and also give me 4k ips gsynch? Doubt you'll get many real examples so stop the fluff.

Still if you're happy with Nvidia then that's your choice, but in this argument you have to realise you are deluding yourself to try and pretend that what I said was basically the equivalent of tesco value meals. Go ahead then and tell me which monitor you would buy that would match the one I posted above as 4k IPS freesynch for £400 and still be similar in value? Sure you can pay a lot more to get anywhere near it and convince yourself that gsynch was worth the extra but from a realistic standpoint your preferences does not equate real world value. Again though, feel free to show me a monitor that is of equal value, you can spend a few hundred more if you want but it's not worth it regardless of poor comparisons

 

[Troezar]

Been saying that for years but somehow things continue as they have done . Eventually salaries will catch up ?

Ultimately the companies and the market sets the prices. Nvidia can creep up their prices and if enough people buy at the higher prices for Nvidia to hit their targets then the higher price is really fair value. If the competition can sell similar products at a lower price then it's either because they have to or can do (sounds obvious - but lower R&D costs for example which might also be a negative aspect)

I can't see where higher salaries are coming from. If anything the companies my wife and I work for keep cutting cost and tightening up on things. I think the Western economies are using smoke and mirrors to keep all the plates spinning. I'm just making sure I'm insulated from debt as much as possible.

Is just like to see tech companies work together a bit more on shared standards and differentiate themselves without trying to create a walled garden like Apple.