Nvidia, stop being a **** please

[TwsT]

Good info that and quite surprised. Goes to show that people are happy to pay the premium with near 3K original swifts sold I expected more sales on the Freesync range in truth and only 15% the amount of the Swifts is quite crap really.

well they have more dilution of sales due to their being more panels. and ICDP is right the future will probably look favourably on freesync but that only solidifies nvidia's reasons for cashing in now.

The truth is though that most people don't care. 1440p gaming is a tiny amount of the market. But saying it's overpriced is pointless when it's selling so incredibly well but then Overclockers stats are skewed in favour of the high-end. We are without a doubt one of the strongest in the market for high end gaming monitor sales. Gibbo brings you guys the best stuff first every time.

 

[humbug]

I think a lot of people buy Free-Sync Screens without even knowing what that is or that it has it, they are just looking for a screen and 'this one looks nice'

They all sit in a similar price bracket to standard screens so there is no indication of anything about it that warrants a premium, other than a funny little white logo which to a lot of people is just background noise.

Having said that there are also a fair few who opt for the 390/X because of Free-Sync.

The thing with them is there is nothing inside them that is special, its just a different scaler than the one in 'normal' screens, IMO its not going to be too long before Adaptive-Sync screens become par for course to vendors simply because its using a 'newer' scaler rather than an 'older' one.

 

[TwsT]

Double edged sword we were worried people would not buy new freesync tech if they didn't have AMD.

Some of the freesync monitors offer better looks and performance than non freesync options. So the branding from a vendors perspective is very important that people don't think it's an AMD only product.

 

[Rroff]

Double edged sword we were worried people would not buy new freesync tech if they didn't have AMD.

Some of the freesync monitors offer better looks and performance than non freesync options. So the branding from a vendors perspective is very important that people don't think it's an AMD only product.

Ooof that last bit could be very easy to overlook as a vendor and have a massive impact on sales the average customer tends not to be particularly discerning.

I considered getting a freesync screen early on as I really wanted 2560x1440 @ 120+Hz and didn't want to pay the ROG "tax" though happy enough to pay extra for G-Sync but ended up getting a Swift on sale and with staff discount which negated that aspect and really happy since I went with a monitor with some form of variable sync.

 

[Howling]

No the larger number of panels is licensing as it's open. The market isn't bigger for freesync as nvidia have a larger share of the market. Looking at steam stats very few people in the sample have a R9 300 series card but the 970 is the most used card from the sample. (yes i'm aware that it's not surveying everyone)

It may not be worth the premium in your opinion but it's selling just fine. Gibbo has sold over 200 of those dells over the weekend. and nearly 3000 Rog PG278Q Swifts since they were introduced. The best selling 27" monitor by a country mile. In contrast the best selling freesync 27" is Benq with about 15% of the swifts sales Admittedly the swift had a headstart but since it's 30% cheaper and only marginally worse whats a few months......

Any chance of seeing the X34 / XR34 figures? Or some idea of the split. I'd expect it's close to 3:1 in favour of G-Sync but judging by the thread in the monitor section it seems fairly 50/50 (although it must be said the X34 is having many more issues than the XR34 )

 

[humbug]

Double edged sword we were worried people would not buy new freesync tech if they didn't have AMD.

Some of the freesync monitors offer better looks and performance than non freesync options. So the branding from a vendors perspective is very important that people don't think it's an AMD only product.

It meed's Intel if not Nvidia.

If AMD succeed in VESA Standardizing it through HDMI Intel might for HTPC reasons as its at that point when TV Vendors might look at it, there is potential for the tech in living-room viewing / gaming entertainment and if TV Vendors see it there is no stopping it, even Nvidia will change their minds.

 

[TwsT]

Any chance of seeing the X34 / XR34 figures? Or some idea of the split. I'd expect it's close to 3:1 in favour of G-Sync but judging by the thread in the monitor section it seems fairly 50/50 (although it must be said the X34 is having many more issues than the XR34 )

shockingly it's nearly 5:1 in favour of the X34 that's astonishing

AOC G2460PF vs 2460PG is 1:2 but then the PF is nearly half the price at the moment.

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

Marketshare clearly means nothing to the majority of vendors or they would be jumping over each other to release G-sync monitors. The numbers of panels available is far more telling than some figures from OCUK, well because OCUK are not the only monitor retailer in the world are they?

Right now both G-sync and Freesync are niche compared to non adaptive sync monitors. The fact that Intel have declared they will eventually support the VESA adaptive Sync standard and the cheaper buy in price pretty much assures that Freesync will eventually become far more mainstream.

Variety doesn't mean uptake though.
If you have 17 models of Freesync monitor and each sells 1000 units, then have 9 models of GSync that each sells 3000 units you'll have sold 17,000 Freesync screens and 27,000 GSync screens.

There seem to be far more models of 980Ti than Fury X but it's the number of units sold that tells you which is more popular.

 

[shankly1985]

ROG had a year start ahead of BenQ also... Infact all Gsync had a year head start.. Freesync will be playing catch up.

The amount of Freesync displays to pick from is far much better than Gsync..
I was helping a friend pick a new monitor other day his choice was Gsync with him owning a 760.. His choice was under 300 pounds 1080p 144hz he was shocked that they was very little choice of Gsync but Freesync they was loads.

 

[Razor Time]

Gsync has been a great investment for me, I am really impressed with it. Money well spent.

 

[Gregster]

ROG had a year start ahead of BenQ also... Infact all Gsync had a year head start.. Freesync will be playing catch up.

This is true and Nvidia showed they wern't prepared to sit and wait for someone else to come up with it and took the bull by the horns so to speak and had a year with no competition, which in tech terms is massive. I feel AMD lost a lot of customers after so many people heard great things about G-Sync and hence why AMD are so far behind in the stakes now. It is all well and good promoting "open" but if nothing gets done, I applaud Nvidia for getting it done so quickly. One of the best moves I made was getting the Swift.

 

[TwsT]

Was about October 2014 vs march 2015 and I was being facetious re pricing of the benq. But that's the importance of being first to market and having stock. Not silly soft launch's

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

Was about October 2014 vs march 2015 and I was being facetious re pricing of the benq. But that's the importance of being first to market and having stock. Not silly soft launch's

But that's the fault of VESA and the monitor manufacturers, not AMD. AMD are the victims here!
It was probably Nvidia, they probably used GameWorks to affect the stocks of Freesync monitors, otherwise they'd have been released 9 months earlier or something

AMD wouldn't do a soft launch.
Fury X was the fault of the manufacturers again, and Nvcidia obviously, damn GameWorks!

 

[ICDP]

This is true and Nvidia showed they wern't prepared to sit and wait for someone else to come up with it and took the bull by the horns so to speak and had a year with no competition, which in tech terms is massive. I feel AMD lost a lot of customers after so many people heard great things about G-Sync and hence why AMD are so far behind in the stakes now. It is all well and good promoting "open" but if nothing gets done, I applaud Nvidia for getting it done so quickly. One of the best moves I made was getting the Swift.

The problem is that you only see this as AMD vs Nvidia. Right now that is for all intents and purposes the case but look at the future and how it will likely pan out. Ask yourself what it means longer term now that Intel have declared they adopt a version of Freesync?

It's not a case of AMD playing catch-up it's a case of what method of adaptive sync is most likely going to be the De facto standard and while it may be 5 years ore more it could mean pretty much every new monitor out there will have Freesync or whatever Intel end up calling it (In-sync )

 

[layte]

I've no doubt that Nvidia will keep the Gsync branding alive, given it has become synonymous with being a premium product (no ludicrous variable sync limits or cheapo panels). Whether that means continuing to offer a bespoke piece of electronics and working with display manufacturers to provide superior performance to the mass produced (and not tuned per panel) scaler we don't know.

I also have no doubt that future NV products will offer support for the adaptive sync standard as well, but NV will promote Gsync as being the premium experiance, and as sales show, people are willing to pay that extra.

Also, I propose the thread title should be changed, I offer 'Ludicrous man children argue once again about the same old tired ****'.

 

[ICDP]

I've no doubt that Nvidia will keep the Gsync branding alive, given it has become synonymous with being a premium product (no ludicrous variable sync limits or cheapo panels). Whether that means continuing to offer a bespoke piece of electronics and working with display manufacturers to provide superior performance to the mass produced (and not tuned per panel) scaler we don't know.

The problem is that G-sync is only marginally superior and it's not like either tech will not be enhanced further. If (and I stress if but it is very likely) adaptive sync becomes the de facto standard and at some point all new monitors have adaptive sync tech included what would the benefits of paying extra for a G-sync monitor that won't work as intended on AMD or Intel hardware?

I also have no doubt that future NV products will offer support for the adaptive sync standard as well, but NV will promote Gsync as being the premium experiance, and as sales show, people are willing to pay that extra.

I believe at present any extra sales for G-sync are likely down to the fact that the majority of PC gamers use Nvidia hardware which means G-sync is the most viable option. If what you say is true and future Nvidia GPUs (as well as Intel and AMD) support adaptive sync the scenario would very likely be different. Buyers will go for a similar yet cheaper tech that will work on 100% of GPU/iGPU hardware.

 

[Gregster]

The problem is that you only see this as AMD vs Nvidia. Right now that is for all intents and purposes the case but look at the future and how it will likely pan out. Ask yourself what it means longer term now that Intel have declared they adopt a version of Freesync?

It's not a case of AMD playing catch-up it's a case of what method of adaptive sync is most likely going to be the De facto standard and while it may be 5 years ore more it could mean pretty much every new monitor out there will have Freesync or whatever Intel end up calling it (In-sync )

I like to keep a monitor for a long time, probably longer than any other PC component but that doesn't mean I won't switch it out for something better (4K 100Hz+ G-Sync/Freesync perhaps) and if it is like you say, 5 or more years, I will be ready for an upgrade then I imagine, so I am sure Nvidia will know what's the best way to go for their customers. If it involves dropping G-Sync for A-Sync monitors, then so be it. All I am talking about is the here and now and what will sit with me for the next how ever long.

 

[Nexus18]

I've no doubt that Nvidia will keep the Gsync branding alive, given it has become synonymous with being a premium product (no ludicrous variable sync limits or cheapo panels). Whether that means continuing to offer a bespoke piece of electronics and working with display manufacturers to provide superior performance to the mass produced (and not tuned per panel) scaler we don't know.

I also have no doubt that future NV products will offer support for the adaptive sync standard as well, but NV will promote Gsync as being the premium experiance, and as sales show, people are willing to pay that extra.

Also, I propose the thread title should be changed, I offer 'Ludicrous man children argue once again about the same old tired ****'.

Cheapo panels?

Most g/free sync monitors are using the same panels i.e. the swift panel is also used in the dell gsync screen as well as the benq freesync screen likewise for the asus and acer IPS 27/34" screens...

There is a far larger variety of freesync panels/monitors to choose and from a larger variety of manufacturers too. The only ones who seem to be really pushing gsync atm.... are acer and asus, yes they are getting the exclusive deals on all the new exciting panels but I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole, their QC and CS is absolute dog **** and they are milking the early adopters big time.

The reason for crap ranges on "some" monitors is because of the scaler used (in gsync monitors, the scaler is replaced with the gsync module, hence the lack of connections/only display port).

Speaking of crap ranges, a lot of people are reporting that with a hack/software mod, they are able to increase the range or choose something different/better.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=28982065&postcount=1008

Even if nvidia wanted to support free/adaptive sync right now, they couldn't because none of their desktop GPU's have the built in hardware capable of using it, if their next GPU's have the required hardware, they could offer support and keep gsync alive for higher end models perhaps... it could become like their 3d vision stuff, a niche market.... although being nvidia, they most likely won't offer support as they want to lock their customers in. If they don't offer support, here's hoping that they will at least include the hardware and some bright individual will come along with a hack/software mod to enable support....

Gsync has been out for over a year longer than freesync so it is only natural for AMD to be playing catch up especially when they are more limited by the scaler but as has been shown with their latest crimson drivers with regards to low framerate compensation (similar to gsync's method iirc), they are improving it and as scalers etc. get better, we will see better ranges etc.


At the end of the day, you can argue whatever you want about nvidia/AMD, gameworks/openworks etc., but this one area is where "open source" is extremely important for the end consumer and why "adaptive sync" (not freesync) should "win".

Either way, it is safe to say that freesync/adaptive sync isn't going anywhere.

 

[layte]

Cheapo panels?

Yes, by offering bargain basement low grade panels (often with poor VRR windows) in some Freesync branded displays it is diluting the brand in the mind of consumers.

I believe at present any extra sales for G-sync are likely down to the fact that the majority of PC gamers use Nvidia hardware which means G-sync is the most viable option. If what you say is true and future Nvidia GPUs (as well as Intel and AMD) support adaptive sync the scenario would very likely be different. Buyers will go for a similar yet cheaper tech that will work on 100% of GPU/iGPU hardware.

Much like how buyers go for the similar yet cheaper AMD branded GFX cards?

Nvidia are pushing Gsync as a premium product, Freesync branded panels range from very near the top end to bargain basement tat of questionable quality. It's a similar situation to the smartphone market, and as Apple have shown, focusing premium products with margins to match is certainly a viable stance.

 

[ICDP]

Yes, by offering bargain basement low grade panels (often with poor VRR windows) in Freesync branded displays it is diluting the brand in the mind of consumers.

Lol, Freesync isn't a brand it's a VESA open standard and as in all open standards you will get a range of products from low to high end that support that standard with higher or lower levels of quality. Saying Freesync is a brand is like saying DirectX is a brand.

Much like how buyers go for the similar yet cheaper AMD branded GFX cards?

Ah the old AMD hate is starting to shine through. Nvidia also have cheaper branded GPUs and vendors or does that not count?

Nvidia are pushing Gsync as a premium product, Freesync branded panels range from very near the top end to bargain basement tat of questionable product. It's a similar situation to the smartphone market, and as Apple have shown, focusing premium products with margins to match is certainly a viable stance.

The PC monitor market is not at all like the smartphone market so your analogy is flawed. I can freely move my sim from an Android to a Windows phone to an Apple phone without major issues. I am not locked in to only using Apple products until I get a new sim with a new number etc. Right now both G-sync and Freesync will lock people to either Nvidia or AMD but at least the adaptive sync VESA standard could change that which would mean a single standard monitor type that works fully with all GPUs. This would be a benefit to all PC gamers as they would not need to factor in the potential extra expense of a new monitor every time they thought about changing GPU vendor.

I'm backing Freesync (adaptive sync) not because it was pushed by AMD but because it is an open VESA standard that has the very real possibility of becoming a required standard at some point by VESA. Which could mean future Nvidia GPUs supporting it, even if Nvidia have to be forced kicking and screaming to do it.